Scholar's Corner: The stolen chapters of Mosiah

[Hemidakota]

Credit: Bonnit.Net

ARTICLE EXCERPT: All was not lost. Even though 116 manuscript pages of the Book of Mormon had been stolen, Joseph Smith was once again translating from the Gold Plates. He picked up where he had paused: Chapter 3 of "The Book of Mosiah."

Royal Skousen, a BYU professor of linguistics and the editor of the monumental Book of Mormon Critical Text Project, said in a phone interview that our current Mosiah chapter 1 is really just the beginning of Mosiah chapter 3. Most, if not all of the original first two chapters were stolen along with "The Book of Lehi."

"That 116 pages that they had went a little

ARTICLE LINK: Scholar's Corner: The stolen chapters of Mosiah | MormonTimes.com

[Onhech]

Interesting stuff here

[Justice]

I've been interested in things like this for quite some time. I've been trying to put pieces together to determine exactly what plates we have, where they end and start. It seems simple at first. But, if you read a few key verses, maybe it isn't so easy. For instance, look at what the Lord told Joseph Smith in D&C 10 when He gave him power to translate again:

41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;

This would be an awesome disussion. I have other scriptural references that are mostly overlooked in the Book of Mormon that help piece together the history of the various sets of plates used by the Nephites.

But, what do we learn from the above verse? It sounds like the Lord is saying not all of the translation they made was lost. It sounds like they retained a portion of their translation. However, here's the difficulty.

The 116 Lost Pages are typically called "the Book of Lehi" (see heading to Section 10). Did the Book of Lehi include their history, even of Nephi, all the way up to King Benjamin without changing names?

Do you know that after Nephi the Small and Large Plates did not have the same authors? (See Jacob 1)

Did you know Amaleki (last author in the Small Plates) lived to see the death of King Mosiah I while he yet had possession of the Small Plates, and he gave them to King Benjamin because he had no children? (Omni)

What does all this mean and why is it significant?

Joseph Smith did not have possession of the Large Plates of Nephi, in fact, there is no evidence or record that he ever saw them (except for in vision when he saw them filling an underground room). Joseph Smith had possession of 3 sets of plates:

1. Plates of Mormon (Mormon's abridgement of the Large Plates from Lehi through 4th Nephi)

2. Small Plates of Nephi (or an unabridged copy of them)

3. Plates of Ether (the sealed portion)

The Plates of Mormon also consisted of Moroni's writings and Moroni's abridgment of the Plates of Ether.

In The Words of Mormon (Mormon's last writings in his plates -- which he inserted at the end of the Small Plates), Mormon tells us that he didn't even discover the Small Plates of Nephi until his abridgement of the Large Plates was completed and he was about to deliver his abridgement to Moroni.

Why is this significant? Consider exactly what the Lord is telling Joseph Smith in D&C 10, while remembering that Joseph didn't even have the Large Plates of Nephi:

38 And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

"Plates of Nephi" could be referring to the small or Large, or even the Small AND Large Plates. Remember that Joseph really had no idea of the sets of plates and authors at this time. It is very possible the Lord was speaking to him in terms he could understand.

To me, the Lord is telling him not to worry about losing the Book of Lehi because the Lord already made arrangements for the stories He wanted to be told to be duplicated. Remember, The Book of Lehi Joseph lost was a translation of Mormon's abridgment of the Book of Lehi.

39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi.

Now since Joseph translated Mormon's abridgment, it was Mormon who said a more particular account was given on the Plates of Nephi...

I HOPE YOU'RE FOLLOWING...

Because, this portion that was lost was Mormon's abridgmnet of the Large Plates before King Benjamin, MEANING, Mormon HAD TO be referring to the Large Plates because he hadn't even discovered the Small Plates until after he finished his abridgment.

Do you see the significance that has in understanding what Joseph lost and retained?

40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—

Now the Lord is referring to the Small Plates of Nephi, which covers the time period of Lehi to King Benjamin.

41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;

See? What Joseph Smith lost wasn't a history from Lehi to King Benjamin, but the Book of Lehi. On the Large Plates Nephi had his own books.

1 Nephi 9: 2

2 And now, as I have spoken concerning these plates, the Small Plates behold they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, the Large Plates after mine own name; and these plates also are called the plates of Nephi.

Jacob throws in some clarifications in Jacob 1. Read Jacob 1 and see if it was possible that the Large Plates, which were written by the Kings of the people, NOT the same authors as the Small Plates, could have been called "The Book of Lehi" all the way up to King Benjamin. It seems very doubtful.

Help me piece this together if you're interested.

It seems to me that the 116 Lost Pages was simply Mormon's abridgment of Lehi's writings, and they retained the translation made from the Large Plates from Nephi to Benjamin. The Lord is telling Joseph Smith, not only should he not retranslate Lehi, but that he should retranslate the portion he retained from DIFFERENT plates... the Small Plates of Nephi.

...or that's what it sounds like to me.

Ideas?

Edited June 26, 2010 by Justice

[Hemidakota]

First, let us look at D&C 10:3 for a backdrop to what transpired:

"It is now restored unto you again."

Moroni took both the Urim and Thummim and the plates from Joseph as a consequence of losing the '116-page manuscript.' After a period of time of thorough repentance on Joseph behalf, both items were returned to Joseph and the Lord granted the gift of seership once again. Joseph said:

"I continued my supplications to God, without cessation and on the twenty-second of September [1828], I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim, with which I have again commenced translating, and Emma writes for me, but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and I trust that it will be so. The angel was rejoiced when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim, and he told me that the Lord was pleased with my faithfulness and humility, and loved me for my penitence and diligence in prayer, in the which I had performed my duty so well as to receive the Urim and Thummim and was able to enter upon the work of translation again" (Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 1996, 176).

It was quite explicative for Joseph Smith to not retranslate the engravings from the plates of Lehi. Joseph commenced translating where he left off. Remember, Joseph had already translated the abridgment made by Mormon up to the Book of Mosiah. What I saying here, Joseph had translated the accounts of Lehi’s journal or writings from the time commence to write a record for his posterity, leaving the Land of Jerusalem through the time of King Benjamin reign. Where Joseph stopped work on the plates and hand written pages (p.116), Mosiah chapter (1) we see today is not the beginning of this record section at all. There is a gap from the previous historical narration. I suspect what was lost was details of Benjamin beginnings.

Continuation of translation did not stop until Joseph reached the Book of Moroni. Joseph continued as instructed by the Lord to go back and translate the small plates of Nephi (what is referred to as 1st & 2nd Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni, and the Words of Mormon).

Moving forward now to D&C 10:35-43, more than two thousand years before the loss of translation work of the plates of Lehi, the Lord inspired the Prophet Mormon to make a provision for stolen manuscript. Justice, the Lord instructed Nephi to make not just one record but two sets. Nephi’s first set of records was, "an account of the reign of the kings, and the wars and contentions of [the] people" (see 1Nephi 9:4). Then, Nephi wrote a second set, "for [a] special purpose" not understood by him (see 1Nephi 9:3). Nephi wrote, "But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men" (see 1Nephi 9:6).

Justice, Nephi’s sets of plates, known as the large and the small plates of Nephi, were handed down from generation-to-generation for nearly one thousand years until they were received Mormon. While Mormon commences his laborious writing campaign with his abridgment of the handed down records, Mormon receive the promptings by the Spirit to include small plates of Nephi's plates in its entirety. Mormon had already finished an abridgment of the same period on the small plates as it was contained on the large plates of Nephi. Mormon spoke to the affect, he could not include nearly as much as he would have liked to.

Justice, what is more remarkable here was Moroni’s admission to listening to the Spirit promptings:

"After I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi down to the reign of this king Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi. And the things which are upon these plates pleasing me, because of the prophecies of the coming of Christ; . . . wherefore, I chose these things, to finish my record upon them. . . . And I do this for a wise purpose; for thus it whispereth me, according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me. And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he worketh in me to do according to his will" (Words of Mormon 1:3-5, 7).

The Lord didn’t reveal ‘the why’ to Moroni, but simply to do it. I have received such promptings in the past and continue to do so, acting on those promptings but not knowing the ‘why’.

Justice, the instructions by the Lord to His servants, both Nephi and Mormon, was to prepare an account of the same time period covered within the lost manuscript. Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni’s preparations allowed Joseph to translate from another account provided previously, than the original translation that had been stolen by Martin Harris’s wife. She gave the 116-pages to her claimed clergy of that day; they altered the manuscript to make Joseph a liar.

As you can clearly see, later visitation to remaining Nephite nation after His resurrection, the Savior was referring to these events (see 3Nephi):

"But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil" (3 Nephi 21:10).

Foreknowledge of the event was seen by GOD and the Savior thousands years prior. The dependency of such translation work was a pivotal point with the Plan of Salvation for our days.

Hopefully, this opens a door to others that when we are prompted, we should always act on it immediately and not to ask why.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Justice]

Continuation of translation did not stop until Joseph reached the Book of Moroni. Joseph continued as instructed by the Lord to go back and translate the small plates of Nephi (what is referred to as 1st & 2nd Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni, and the Words of Mormon).

Where did you read this, that he didn't translate the Small Plates until after he finished the rest?

[Hemidakota]

Doctrine and Covenants 10:3

[Justice]

D&C 10:

3 Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.

Hmmm...

D&C 10:

38 And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi.

40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—

41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;

Hemi, if you read these words very closely, with an understanding of some very small details, you see that the Lord is not instructing Joseph Smith to pick up where he left off in translation in verse 3.

Pay close attention to these words in verse 38:

And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

Keep in mind there were 3 sets of plates that all contained a record of the same time period. It is very difficult to understand which plates the Lord is talking about until you focus on which plates are which.

Plates of Mormon: These are the plates Joseph Smith began translating from. These plates were made my Mormon and contain an abridgement of the Large Plates of Nephi. The time period in question was written by Mormon almost 1,000 years after the events themselves.

Large Plates of Nephi: Joseph Smith did not have these plates. He never translated from these plates. The time period in question (from Lehi to King Benjamin) was written by the kings NOT the same authors as wrote in the Small Plates of Nephi over the same time period (Jacob 1). The Small plates did not necessarily describe the same events because they dealt more with the government of the people, and not the progress of the people spiritually.

Small Plates of Nephi: Written by the prophets (Nephi up to King Benjamin -- as currently stands in the Book of Mormon we have).

Look at some comments made by Mormon when he found the Small Plates of Nephi:

Words of Mormon:

3 And now, I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written; for after I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi, down to the reign of this king Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi.

That's a good description of the Small Plates of Nephi. He is not saying immediately after he finished abridging the Large Plates up to King Benjamin, but he's saying after he finished his entire abridgement including from Lehi to King Benjamin. It was just before he gave his plates to Moroni, so the abridgement was nearly complete.

4 And the things which are upon these plates pleasing me, because of the prophecies of the coming of Christ; and my fathers knowing that many of them have been fulfilled; yea, and I also know that as many things as have been prophesied concerning us down to this day have been fulfilled, and as many as go beyond this day must surely come to pass—

This shouldn't be a surprize to us, this is the purpose that Nephi had a second set or records kept by the prophets.

5 Wherefore, I chose these things, to finish my record upon them, which remainder of my record I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people.

Here is the interesting part. He says he "chose" these things to finish his record upon.

He chose them.

There are 2 possible explanations.

1) He kept his abridgement of the large plates in tact and inserted or included the Small Plates in the middle of his abridgement, about at the end of the time period the Small Plates covered.

2) He removed his abridgement of the same time period covered by the Small Plates, thus "chose" them over his abridgement of the Large Plates, and inserted this more spiritual rendition of the same time period.

In my mind, Mormon is more accurately describing the 2nd.

Now, after you respond to this, I will explain how the Lord still allowed for the "lost pages" in this scenario.

Do you understand what I'm saying so far?

[Justice]

Hint, the names of the different books were called after their author.

Jacob 3:

14 These plates are called the plates of Jacob, and they were made by the hand of Nephi. And I make an end of speaking these words.

I know the theory presented by you, from Skousen, suggests the same thing, and uses it as evidence that "The Book of Lehi" went from Lehi up to King Benjamin.

But, I use it as evidence that the Book of Lehi was named the Book of Lehi, and Nephi began his record in the Large Plates after his father and named the book in his name, Nephi.

1 Nephi 9:

2 And now, as I have spoken concerning these plates, [small Plates] behold they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; [Large Plates] for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, after mine own name; and these plates also are called the plates of Nephi.

The Book of Lehi, which was the 116 lost pages, was the abridgement Mormon made of Lehi's records.

Keep this in perspective: The Small Plates of Nephi, the way they currently stand in our Book of Mormon, cover 143 pages, front and back, with footnotes, or 74 pieces of paper. The unknown here is the fact that Mormon abridged the Large Plates. We don't know how much he condensed the writing that were on the Large Plates. But, judging by the length of Mosiah, Alma, Helaman and other books he abridged, it seems the abridgement of Lehi and Nephi both would not fit on 116 pages.

In any case, when you consume all this, I'll describe where the Lord's masterful preparation came in preserving the things He wanted to be delivered, if Mormon removed a portion of his abridgement.

[Hemidakota]

D&C 10:

3 Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.

Hmmm...

D&C 10:

38 And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi.

40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—

41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;

Hemi, if you read these words very closely, with an understanding of some very small details, you see that the Lord is not instructing Joseph Smith to pick up where he left off in translation in verse 3.

Pay close attention to these words in verse 38:

And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

Keep in mind there were 3 sets of plates that all contained a record of the same time period. It is very difficult to understand which plates the Lord is talking about until you focus on which plates are which.

Plates of Mormon: These are the plates Joseph Smith began translating from. These plates were made my Mormon and contain an abridgement of the Large Plates of Nephi. The time period in question was written by Mormon almost 1,000 years after the events themselves.

Large Plates of Nephi: Joseph Smith did not have these plates. He never translated from these plates. The time period in question (from Lehi to King Benjamin) was written by the kings NOT the same authors as wrote in the Small Plates of Nephi over the same time period (Jacob 1). The Small plates did not necessarily describe the same events because they dealt more with the government of the people, and not the progress of the people spiritually.

Small Plates of Nephi: Written by the prophets (Nephi up to King Benjamin -- as currently stands in the Book of Mormon we have).

Look at some comments made by Mormon when he found the Small Plates of Nephi:

Words of Mormon:

3 And now, I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written; for after I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi, down to the reign of this king Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi.

That's a good description of the Small Plates of Nephi. He is not saying immediately after he finished abridging the Large Plates up to King Benjamin, but he's saying after he finished his entire abridgement including from Lehi to King Benjamin. It was just before he gave his plates to Moroni, so the abridgement was nearly complete.

4 And the things which are upon these plates pleasing me, because of the prophecies of the coming of Christ; and my fathers knowing that many of them have been fulfilled; yea, and I also know that as many things as have been prophesied concerning us down to this day have been fulfilled, and as many as go beyond this day must surely come to pass—

This shouldn't be a surprize to us, this is the purpose that Nephi had a second set or records kept by the prophets.

5 Wherefore, I chose these things, to finish my record upon them, which remainder of my record I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people.

Here is the interesting part. He says he "chose" these things to finish his record upon.

He chose them.

There are 2 possible explanations.

1) He kept his abridgement of the large plates in tact and inserted or included the Small Plates in the middle of his abridgement, about at the end of the time period the Small Plates covered.

2) He removed his abridgement of the same time period covered by the Small Plates, thus "chose" them over his abridgement of the Large Plates, and inserted this more spiritual rendition of the same time period.

In my mind, Mormon is more accurately describing the 2nd.

Now, after you respond to this, I will explain how the Lord still allowed for the "lost pages" in this scenario.

Do you understand what I'm saying so far?

Not having complete knowledge of Lehi's personal writings, I will beg differently to what was on his plates.

We need to read Joseph's journal to determine which assessment is correct. Whether or not, Joseph proceeded on to Book of Moroni and then return to add the smaller plated of Nephi or as you stated. Having his personal feelings of that time and event will give credence on what was.

The indifference here is not the abridgment Justice, but whether or not, Joseph continued on with the translation and then added the smaller plates after loosing the 116-pages.

[Hemidakota]

Hint, the names of the different books were called after their author.

Jacob 3:

14 These plates are called the plates of Jacob, and they were made by the hand of Nephi. And I make an end of speaking these words.

I know the theory presented by you, from Skousen, suggests the same thing, and uses it as evidence that "The Book of Lehi" went from Lehi up to King Benjamin.

But, I use it as evidence that the Book of Lehi was named the Book of Lehi, and Nephi began his record in the Large Plates after his father and named the book in his name, Nephi.

1 Nephi 9:

2 And now, as I have spoken concerning these plates, [small Plates] behold they are not the plates upon which I make a full account of the history of my people; [Large Plates] for the plates upon which I make a full account of my people I have given the name of Nephi; wherefore, they are called the plates of Nephi, after mine own name; and these plates also are called the plates of Nephi.

The Book of Lehi, which was the 116 lost pages, was the abridgement Mormon made of Lehi's records.

Keep this in perspective: The Small Plates of Nephi, the way they currently stand in our Book of Mormon, cover 143 pages, front and back, with footnotes, or 74 pieces of paper. The unknown here is the fact that Mormon abridged the Large Plates. We don't know how much he condensed the writing that were on the Large Plates. But, judging by the length of Mosiah, Alma, Helaman and other books he abridged, it seems the abridgement of Lehi and Nephi both would not fit on 116 pages.

In any case, when you consume all this, I'll describe where the Lord's masterful preparation came in preserving the things He wanted to be delivered, if Mormon removed a portion of his abridgement.

I don't disagree on the usage of naming convention. If it was me, I would call it Lehi's journal (plates) and I expect the day will come it will be called this.

The rest is quite interesting take and I highly agree since I believe the same. Mormon work was nothing more than abridgment from the original source. Being 116-pages, it would render more than what was given in the smaller plates of Nephi. How much was left out by Mormon will be made known in our days to come by the last church prophet - The Seer.

[Hemidakota]

Justice did further research into Joseph's own journal (compilation by Nelson) reveals, D&C 10 came after D&C 3. In fact, Joseph started back to translation on 5th of April the following year (1829). It doesn't speak much at all, he stated the following:

"On the 5th day of April, 1829, Oliver Cowdery 1 came to my house, until which time I had never seen him. He stated to me that having been teaching school in the neighborhood where my father resided, and my father being one of those who sent to the school, he went to board for a season at his house, and while there the family related to him the circumstance of my having received the plates, and accordingly he had come to make inquiries of me. 2 Two days after the arrival of Mr. Cowdery (being the 7th of April) 3 I commenced to translate the Book of Mormon, and he began to write for me, which having continued for some time, I inquired of the Lord through the Urim and Thummim, and obtained the following: (received revelations - D&C 6).

After we had received this revelation, Oliver Cowdery stated to me that after he had gone to my father's to board, and after the family had communicated to him concerning my having obtained the plates, that one night after he had retired to bed he called upon the Lord to know if these things were so, and the Lord manifested to him that they were true, but he had kept the circumstance entirely secret, and had mentioned it to no one; so that after this revelation was given, he knew that the work was true, because no being living knew of the thing alluded to in the revelation, but God and himself.

During the month of April I continued to translate, and he to write, with little cessation, during which time we received several revelations. A difference of opinion arising between us about the account of John the Apostle in the New Testament, as to whether he died or continued to live, we mutually agreed to settle it by the Urim and Thummim and the following is the word which we received: (receive revelations to his inquiry see D&C 7)"

What I have discovered is the manner of Joseph writing reveals how the order of the translation went. I believe now, as before, that the smaller plates of Nephi were not in the beginning of the plates, along with Lehi's and the Kings records. This was Mormon's abridgment work and as I already alluded too my account, the smaller plates were towards the end after Ether and before the sealed portions of Moroni's abridgment work of Brother of Jared's record. I will give my answer to why I believe this later.

Now remember Justice, from April 5th to until May, between Josephs speaking each word to Oliver, then Oliver rehearsing back to Joseph for accuracy before it is finalize on paper, how many of the plates were translate per day? One or two hand written pages? Or was it more?

The answer is the following journal entry:

We still continued the work of translation, when in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates. While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: (revelations received see D&C 13)

He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter; and he commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and afterwards that he should baptize me. Accordingly we went and were baptized. I baptized him first, and afterwards he baptized me, after which I laid my hands upon his head and ordained him to the Aaronic Priesthood, and afterwards he laid his hands on me and ordained me to the same Priesthood—for so we were commanded.

The messenger who visited us on this occasion, and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood he said would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second. It was on the 15th day of May, 1829, that we were ordained under the hand of this messenger and baptized.

First, D&C 13 was received after D&C 8 and 9. Something to keep in mind. They stop translation on the 15th of May based on their translation of "work of translation, when in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates." Justice where in the Book of Mormon that discusses this in detail? Edited June 28, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Justice]

Just from memory, it discusses it in early Mosiah, mid-Alma, 3rd Nephi 17-19, and in Moroni.

That's a broad range.

Interesting, though... I never really gave it much thought about that the Small Plates may have been translated last. I've just always assumed they were translated right after the 116 pages were lost. I'm curious and anxious to hear more.

[Hemidakota]

Remember what I stated, we can learn a great deal on the order of translation by reading Joseph journal, let us now look at another entry:

"We found the people of Seneca county in general friendly, and disposed to enquire into truth of these strange matters which now began to be noised abroad. Many opened their houses to us, in order that we might have an opportunity of meeting with our friends for the purpose of instruction and explanation. We met with many from time to time who were willing to hear us, and who desired to find out the truth as it is in Christ Jesus, and apparently willing to obey the Gospel, when once fairly convinced and satisfied in their own minds; and in this same month of June, my brother Hyrum Smith, David Whitmer, and Peter Whitmer, Jun., were baptized in Seneca lake, the two former by myself, the latter by Oliver Cowdery. From this time forth many became believers, and some were baptized whilst we continued to instruct and persuade as many as applied for information.

In the course of the work of translation, we ascertained that three special witnesses 1 were to be provided by the Lord, to whom He would grant that they should see the plates from which this work (the Book of Mormon) should be translated; and that these witnesses should bear record of the same, as will be found recorded, Book of Mormon, Book of Ether, chapter 5, verses 2, 3 and 4, also II Nephi, chapter 11, verse 3. Almost immediately after we had made this discovery, it occurred to Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and the aforementioned Martin Harris (who had come to inquire after our progress in the work) that they would have me inquire of the Lord to know if they might not obtain of him the privilege to be these three special witnesses; and finally they became so very solicitous, and urged me so much to inquire that at length I complied; and through the Urim and Thummim, I obtained of the Lord for them the following: (revelation was received see D&C 17)

Notice the order of references? I highly doubt it was after thought to mention a reference to 2nd Nephi. Translation work was still not complete at this time in June 1829. The translation work closure didn't come until earlier part of next year in March and April time frame prior to the establishment of the church (See the Title Page to the Book of Mormon. This was after D&C 20 was received.)

After D&C 20, Joseph last tasking upon closure of the translation to the Book of Mormon, was the title page. Here is Joseph entry:

"Meantime, our translation drawing to a close, we went to Palmyra, Wayne county, New York, secured the copyright, and agreed with Mr. Egbert B. Grandin to print five thousand copies for the sum of three thousand dollars.

I wish to mention here that the title-page of the Book of Mormon is a literal translation, taken from the very last leaf on the left hand side of the collection or book of plates, which contained the record which has been translated, the language of the whole running the same as all Hebrew writing in general; and that said title page is not by any means a modern composition, either of mine or of any other man who has lived or does live in this generation. Therefore, in order to correct an error, which generally exists concerning it, I give below that part of the title-page of the English version of the Book of Mormon, which is a genuine and literal translation of the title-page of the original Book of Mormon as recorded on the plates:"

In the first edition, the words "Author and Proprietor" appear instead of the word "translator." The reason for this is obvious. Under the laws then existing the copyright was secured to "authors and proprietors;" and hence on the title page of the first edition, "Joseph Smith, Junior, author and proprietor," takes the place of the line "Translated by Joseph Smith, Jun.," in the later editions. The Prophet merely adopted the phraseology of the law. Preceding the preface to the first edition appears the following certificate of copyright, which is interesting not only as explaining the foregoing point, but also as preserving an important date in Church history (See B.H. Roberts, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Vol 1)

Northern District of New York, to wit:

Be it Remembered,, That on the eleventh day of June, in the fifty-third year of the independence of the United States of America, A. D. 1829, JOSEPH SMITH JUN., of the said district, hath deposited in this office the title of a Book, the right whereof the claims as author, in the words following to wit: [Here follows the title page with the words, "By Joseph Smith, Junior, Author and Proprietor, Palmyra: Printed by E. B. Grandin for the Author. 1830."]

In conformity to the act of the Congress of the United States, entitled "An act for the encouragement of learning by securing the copies of Maps, Charts and Books, to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the times therein mentioned;" and also the act, entitled, "An act supplementary to an act, entitled, 'An act for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of Maps, Charts, and Books, to to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the times therein mentioned,' and extending the benefits thereof to the arts of designing, engraving, and etching historical and other prints."

R. R. Lansing,

Clerk of the Northern District of New York.

In the first edition of the Book of Mormon the testimony of Three Witnesses, and also the Testimony of Eight Witnesses appear at the end—or on the last two pages of the volume, instead of being, as in the later editions, on the page following the title-page. The first edition also had the following:

Preface.

To the Reader—

As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work; but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing; therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil. Wherefore to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have through His grace and mercy, accomplished that which He hath commanded me, respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New York.

The Author

Earlier journal entry omitted time and exact dates (including the day of the week) to each entry. Later, I noticed either Joseph or other clerks assigned, began this added feature to each entry.

[stop here for now]

Edited June 28, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Just from memory, it discusses it in early Mosiah, mid-Alma, 3rd Nephi 17-19, and in Moroni.

That's a broad range.

Interesting, though... I never really gave it much thought about that the Small Plates may have been translated last. I've just always assumed they were translated right after the 116 pages were lost. I'm curious and anxious to hear more.

So did most of the CES and 'Y' scholars when you read their materials. I simply don't believe it was. But I do agree with your statement of Mormon's abridgment was lost.

[Justice]

OK, it's time to open your mind for just a few minutes. I'd like to elaborate on those 4 verses and show you where I think the focus should be. I'm in D&C 10 again:

38 And now, verily I say unto you, that an account of those things that you have written, which have gone out of your hands, is engraven upon the plates of Nephi;

Reminder, what Joseph Smith took his account from was the Plates of Mormon. So, in fact, there were 2 other places that this same time period was covered. One place Joseph Smith had in his possession (Small Plates), the other he did not (Large Plates).

39 Yea, and you remember it was said in those writings that a more particular account was given of these things upon the plates of Nephi.

Again, this reference in the Plates of Mormon was written by Mormon at a time which he had not even discovered the Small Plates yet. So, this reference is speaking about the Large Plates.

40 And now, because the account which is engraven upon the plates of Nephi is more particular concerning the things which, in my wisdom, I would bring to the knowledge of the people in this account—

Now, the Lord is talking about the Small Plates, because Nephi, Jacob, Enos, etc., all kept the spiritual record on the Small Plates, AND it was the only "Plates of Nephi" that Joseph Smith had in possession.

41 Therefore, you shall translate the engravings which are on the plates of Nephi, down even till you come to the reign of king Benjamin, or until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained;

This is a most curious verse. He is telling Joseph Smith to translate the Small Plates of Nephi (and this is why I thought he translated the Small Plates immediately, right after the gift was restored--but I admit it could be a general statement, not associated to a certain order of translation).

He says "until you come to that which you have translated, which you have retained." Does that not sound like he retained some of his translation?

42 And behold, you shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words.

And here, as far as what will replace what is lost, he says it will be published as the record of Nephi, meaning it does NOT go all the way down to Benjamin.

So, I'm struggling with making D&C 10 match up with the portions of Joseph Smith's journal you posted. My first take on it is his journal is not definitive as to what was translated immediately after he regained the ability. But, I'm still looking.

[Justice]

OK, now here's the great mystery as to how the Lord provided for the lost pages.

Nephi wrote 2 accounts: the Large Plates and the Small Plates.

On the Large Plates there was a Book of Lehi. Either it was Lehi's own personal writings (which I doubt because Nephi made the plates), or Nephi compiled (or abridged) his father's writings and scribed them on the plates as a book. the Book of Lehi (which is what I believe). At that point (in either case) there would be no need for Nephi to repeat anything contained in his father's writings in his own books (Book of Nephi) on the Large Plates. If Lehi's writings were lost, they were lost. The Large Plates were passed to the man Nephi annointed king, and they stayed with the kings for the remainder of their duration, and contain a much more detailed record of the affairs of the government and wars.

The Lord had Nephi make a second set of plates, and they were the Small Plates. Nephi passed these to his brother Jacob (Jacob 1), and told him to write of the major spiritual teachings and revelations among the people. The impression is that it was a much smaller record. Since Lehi did not have a book on the Small Plates, or since Nephi did not compile his father's records on the Small Plates, he began his book (Book of Nephi) with a record of his father (leaving Jerusalem, vision of tree of life, etc.). The Small Plates were given to the owner of the Large Plates by Amaleki, which was King Benjamin.

Now, when Mormon found the Small Plates (after he finished his abridgement of the Large Plates) he preferred them, or chose them, over his abridgement of the Large Plates, so he pulled his abridgement of the same time period that the Small Plates covered, meaning from Nephi up to King Benjamin. Then he inserted a brief link between the 2 called Words of Mormon, linking the end of the Small Plates to the "remainder" of his record which he took from the Large Plates. Since there was no Book of Lehi in the Small Plates, Mormon did not pull the Book of Lehi from his abridgement, and it went on to become the lost pages. But, Nephi touched on the highlights of his father's writings in his own book in the Small Plates, thus preserving those things the Lord wanted us to have today... when the Book of Lehi was lost.

So, it's not that there were 2 complete records from Lehi to King Benjamin, and they were preserved when one was lost, it's that there was an abridgement by Mormon, and there was duplication of some events by Nephi. Mormon's abridgement of Nephi's complilation of Lehi's writings in the plates of Mormon was lost, but was preserved when Mormon was moved to replace his abridgement from Nephi to King Benjamin with the Small Plates.

I'm still studying those journal entires you posted, and it might take me a while to go through them. My mind is very analytical, and I need to let it sink in with other things before I can understand them.

Now, read those 4 verses again, or in fact, all of Section 10, and see if that's not what it's saying. You may also need to read Words of Mormon. In the mean time, I will be studying these journal entries.

[Maya]

I wish I had time to read this through... need to drive to EFY today and be overnight and feed them tomorrow ... maybe after that, when I get back... then back to holidays...

[Hemidakota]

OK, now here's the great mystery as to how the Lord provided for the lost pages.

Nephi wrote 2 accounts: the Large Plates and the Small Plates.

On the Large Plates there was a Book of Lehi. Either it was Lehi's own personal writings (which I doubt because Nephi made the plates), or Nephi compiled (or abridged) his father's writings and scribed them on the plates as a book. the Book of Lehi (which is what I believe). At that point (in either case) there would be no need for Nephi to repeat anything contained in his father's writings in his own books (Book of Nephi) on the Large Plates. If Lehi's writings were lost, they were lost. The Large Plates were passed to the man Nephi annointed king, and they stayed with the kings for the remainder of their duration, and contain a much more detailed record of the affairs of the government and wars.

The Lord had Nephi make a second set of plates, and they were the Small Plates. Nephi passed these to his brother Jacob (Jacob 1), and told him to write of the major spiritual teachings and revelations among the people. The impression is that it was a much smaller record. Since Lehi did not have a book on the Small Plates, or since Nephi did not compile his father's records on the Small Plates, he began his book (Book of Nephi) with a record of his father (leaving Jerusalem, vision of tree of life, etc.). The Small Plates were given to the owner of the Large Plates by Amaleki, which was King Benjamin.

Now, when Mormon found the Small Plates (after he finished his abridgement of the Large Plates) he preferred them, or chose them, over his abridgement of the Large Plates, so he pulled his abridgement of the same time period that the Small Plates covered, meaning from Nephi up to King Benjamin. Then he inserted a brief link between the 2 called Words of Mormon, linking the end of the Small Plates to the "remainder" of his record which he took from the Large Plates. Since there was no Book of Lehi in the Small Plates, Mormon did not pull the Book of Lehi from his abridgement, and it went on to become the lost pages. But, Nephi touched on the highlights of his father's writings in his own book in the Small Plates, thus preserving those things the Lord wanted us to have today... when the Book of Lehi was lost.

So, it's not that there were 2 complete records from Lehi to King Benjamin, and they were preserved when one was lost, it's that there was an abridgement by Mormon, and there was duplication of some events by Nephi. Mormon's abridgement of Nephi's compilation of Lehi's writings in the plates of Mormon was lost, but was preserved when Mormon was moved to replace his abridgement from Nephi to King Benjamin with the Small Plates.

I'm still studying those journal entires you posted, and it might take me a while to go through them. My mind is very analytical, and I need to let it sink in with other things before I can understand them.

Now, read those 4 verses again, or in fact, all of Section 10, and see if that's not what it's saying. You may also need to read Words of Mormon. In the mean time, I will be studying these journal entries.

Let me first state in - my opinion -, there were more records by the Nephites than the record of Lehi and the smaller plates of Nephi. Remember the civic affairs, Lamanites, and other records were not included. Also, there maybe other records of personal nature; not forget diver prophets beside the major ones Mormon recorded only. Remember the cave of records where Joseph and other witnessed? Besides, what was lying on the table called the Gold plates; the room was filled with many records from the Jaredites to last remaining Nephite of Mormons day.

If you assume that it was Nephi that wrote on the larger plates, ask yourself this question, how did Nephi learn to keep a record? Was not Lehi commanded to keep a record? Who taught Nephi the importunacy to keep a record? Also, who taught Nephi how to manufacture thin easily writable metal plates?

Small plates of Nephi was just that – a record of original authors that contain the writings from Nephi to King Benjamin.

I will come back later to complete this with verses for references.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

The Cave of Records:

The Contributor, Volume 3

THE Hill Cumorah is situated in western New York, between the villages of Palmyra and Canandaigua, about four miles from the former. It is celebrated as the ancient depository of the sacred gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. Cumorah was the name by which the hill was designated in the days of the Prophet Moroni, who deposited the plates about four hundred and twenty years after the birth of Christ. The Prophet Mormon, the father of Moroni, had been entrusted with all the sacred records of his forefathers, engraved on metallic plates. New plates were made by Mormon on which he wrote, from the more ancient books, an abridged history of the nation, incorporating therewith many revelations, prophecies, the Gospel, etc. These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great sacred depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. The particular place in the hill, where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the Prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and its contents put under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of Zion.

----

Dr. Poulson, living in Ogden, wrote to the editors of the Deseret News concerning a visit he had had with David Whitmer. The News published those portions of the letter it thought would be of interest to its readers in its issue of August 16, 1878.

I—Did Joseph use the Urim and Thummim when he translated?

He—The Urim and Thummim were two white stones, each of them cased in as spectacles are, in a kind of silver casing, but the bow between the stones was more heavy, and longer apart between the stones, than we usually find in spectacles. Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, Emma, and my brother John each at different times wrote for Joseph as he translated.

I—Where are the plates now?

He—In a cave, where the angel has hidden them up till the time arrives when the plates, which are sealed, shall be translated. God will yet raise up a mighty one, who shall do his work till it is finished and Jesus comes again.

I—Where is that cave?

He—In the state of New York.

I—In the Hill Cumorah?

He—No, but not far from that place. I saw the place where the plates were found, and a great many did so, and it awakened an excitement at the time, because the worst enemies of "Mormonism" stirred up the confusion by telling about the plates which Joseph found, and the "gold bible" which he was in possession of, so he was in constant danger of being robbed and killed.

I—How did the place look?

He—It was a stone box, and the stones looked to me as if they were cemented together.

That was on the side of the hill, and a little down from the top.

I —When will the temple be built at Independence?

He—Right after the great tribulation is over.

I—What do you mean by that?

He—A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be a smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates, and peace all over.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote about the large plates. Here is his thoughts;

As we now have it, the Book of Mormon is a translation of a portion of the Gold Plates. These plates came into being in the following way: Nephi made two sets of plates which are known as the Large Plates of Nephi and the Small Plates of Nephi. Upon the Large Plates he abridged the records of his father, Lehi, and began a detailed history of his people, including their wars, contentions, the reign of their kings, and their genealogy. The Small Plates he reserved for sacred writings, prophecies, and things pertaining to the ministry. (1 Ne. 1:17; 9; 19:1-6; 2 Ne. 4:14; 5:30, 33; Jac. 1:1-4.) These plates were handed down from prophet to prophet, and by about 130 B.C., some 370 years after Lehi left Jerusalem, the Small Plates were full. (Omni 30.)

Mormon made the Plates of Mormon on which he abridged the Large Plates of Nephi and to which he added without abridgment the Small Plates of Nephi. (Words of Morm. 1-11.) Both Mormon and Moroni wrote some things of their own on the Plates of Mormon, and Moroni also wrote on them an abridgment of Jaredite history taken from the Plates of Ether. Thus when the Gold Plates were placed in the Hill Cumorah, they contained a record of both the Nephites and the Jaredites.

Joseph Smith said that "each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long, and not quite so thick as common tin," that they were "filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters," and that they were bound together with three rings, forming a volume "something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed." (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 537; Morm. 9: 32-34.) Orson Pratt says two-thirds of the volume was sealed (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 347) George Q. Cannon that only one-third was sealed. (George Q. Cannon, Life of Joseph Smith, new ed., p. 45.)

Moroni deposited the plates in the Hill Cumorah in about 421 A.D., and then as a resurrected being revealed the hiding place to the Prophet on September 22, 1823. Four years later the Prophet was permitted to obtain possession of them, but the actual translation of the portion we now have as the Book of Mormon did not take place until between April 7 and June 11, 1829. Thereafter the plates were returned to the custody of Moroni. (Jos. Smith 2:27-65; D. & C. 27:5; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 215-226.) In the Lord's own due time the plates shall be returned and the sealed portion translated and published to the world. This shall not take place, however, until men exercise faith to the extent that the Brother of Jared did. (Ether 4.) (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, p.322)

---------------------------

LDS Church News

GAP BETWEEN SMALL AND LARGE PLATES IS BRIDGED

Date: 03/12/88

"The two pages comprising The Words of Mormon are approximately 500 years out of context," wrote Daniel H. Ludlow in A Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon. "Note the approximate date at the end of the book of Omni is 130 B.C. whereas the Words of Mormon are dated about 384 A.D....

"The Words of Mormon were apparently written near the end of Mormon's life for the purpose of connecting two major records. It was made known to Mormon 'by the workings of the Spirit of the Lord' that the small plates of Nephi (which ended when Benjamin was an old man about ready to die).

"So that a gap would not occur in the history of the Nephites, Mormon included major events of the life-time of King Benjamin in The Words of Mormon, thus connecting the account on the small plates of Nephi with Mormon's abridgment of the book of Mosiah."

In a chapter in Studies in Scripture: 1 Nephi to Alma 29, Victor L. Ludlow wrote: "At the beginning of the Book of Mormon history, Nephi had been commanded to make two separate sets of plates. After starting what would be known as the large plates of Nephi, he was later commanded to make a set of more religious records, known as the small plates of Nephi. (1 Ne. 9:2,4 and 1:17.)

"After Nephi's death, the large plates remained with the kings down to the time of Mormon, while the small plates went to Jacob and his posterity until the time of Amaleki, who gave them to King Benjamin. Thus the two sets of plates were back into the possession of one person.

"After Mormon had completed his abridgment of 500 years of Nephite history, he may have been somewhat surprised to find the small plates of Nephi, which largely duplicated his efforts. Instead of keeping only one of the sets of records, Mormon was prompted to include the small plates with his abridgment, without really knowing why. (W of M 1:7.)"

One hundred sixteen pages of manuscript from the plates of Mormon were lost after Joseph Smith had translated them. Since the small plates contained a more spiritual account of the same time period, the teachings of greater value were preserved.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

The Large Plates of Nephi

These plates were started by Nephi soon after Lehi's colony arrived in the promised land. They served as the official record of the Nephites from about 590 B.C. to A.D. 385. (1 Nephi 19:1-4.) During part of this period they were primarily a record of secular events among the descendants of Lehi, but later they contained the religious record as well. (1 Nephi 19:4; Jacob 3:13.) These plates contained a "full account of the history of [Nephi's] people" (1 Nephi 9:2, 4; 2 Nephi 4:14; Jacob 1:2-3), the genealogy of Lehi (1 Nephi 19:2), and the "more part" of the teachings of the resurrected Jesus Christ to the Nephite nation (3 Nephi 26:7).

The major books on the large plates of Nephi were as follows: Lehi, Mosiah, Alma, Helaman, [3] Nephi, [4] Nephi, and Mormon. After the prophet Mormon was commanded by the Lord to make an additional set of plates, he abridged the writings of the large plates of Nephi and wrote this abridgment on his own plates. (3 Nephi 5:8-11; Mormon 2:17-18; 5:9.) Joseph Smith translated Mormon's abridgment of the large plates of Nephi, although he did not translate directly from the large plates themselves. The complete writings of the large plates of Nephi may yet be published to the world. (See Enos, verse 16, and 2 Nephi 29:13.)

The Small Plates of Nephi

These plates were started by Nephi about 570 B.C. and for approximately 440 years thereafter served as the religious record of the Nephite nation. (2 Nephi 5:29-32; 1 Nephi 6:3, 5; 9:4; 19:2-3, 5-6; Jacob 1:4.) Many of the religious writings from the brass plates of Laban were also copied onto these plates. (2 Nephi 4:15; 24.) Joseph Smith's translation of these plates occupies the first 133 pages of our present Book of Mormon. Thus, as Enos prophesied, the teachings of these records have been preserved. (Enos, verse 16-17.)

The Plates of Ether

These plates contained the secular and religious history of the people of Jared, who came over to the promised land at the time of "the great tower" of Babel. Also, the record contained an account of "the creation of the world" (Ether 1:3) as well as a full account of the tremendous vision of the brother of Jared in which he was shown the major events that were to occur on this earth (Ether 3:25).

Moroni abridged the writings of the plates of Ether and wrote his abridgment on the plates of Mormon. Joseph Smith translated part of Moroni's writings, and his translation appears as the book of Ether in our present Book of Mormon. (Ether 1:1-2.) However, Moroni was commanded by the Lord to seal up part of his writings that contained the "very things which the brother of Jared saw," and Joseph Smith was instructed not to translate the sealed portion. (Ether 4:1-4; 5:1.) This sealed portion will be published when the people "repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord. . . . And . . . exercise faith . . . even as the brother of Jared did." (Ether 4:6-7.)

The Plates of Mormon

These plates were started by Mormon and contained his abridgment of the books that were written on the large plates of Nephi. (3 Nephi 5:8-11; Mormon 2:17-18; 5:9.) Moroni also added on these plates (1) a brief postscript to his father's record (Mormon 8-9); (2) his abridgment of the plates of Ether (see Ether 1:1-3); (3) his own book of Moroni (see Moroni 1: 1-4); (4) the material that appears as the title page in our present Book of Mormon; and (5) his account of the vision of the brother of Jared, which he was commanded to "seal up" (see Ether 4:4-5).

The plates of Mormon were given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni on September 22, 1827. The Prophet translated all of these plates that were not sealed. However, his translation of Mormon's abridgment of the book of Lehi, comprising 116 pages of manuscript, was subsequently lost by Martin Harris. The Lord then instructed Joseph to translate the small plates of Nephi in the place of the lost manuscript. (See History of the Church, 1:20-22.) (Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon by Daniel H. Ludlow, P.57-58)

Edited June 29, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

Last...

1 Nephi 6:1-6

1. And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.

2. For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph.

3. And it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God.

4. For the fulness of mine intent is that I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham, and the God of Issac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved.

5. Wherefore, the things which are pleasing unto the world I do not write, but the things which are pleasing unto God and unto those who are not of the world.

6. Wherefore, I shall give commandment unto my seed, that they shall not occupy these plates with things which are not of worth unto the children of men.

Here is what Millet had to say:

[i ... do not give the genealogy of my fathers] Approximately ten years after Lehi and his family left Jerusalem (ca. 590 B.C.), Nephi was commanded to begin a record of his proceedings, the record we have come to know as the large plates. On this set of plates he was to record such matters as the nature of the family's travels, the genealogy of his father, many of the prophecies of Lehi, the wars and struggles of his people, and the details of the reigns of the kings. (See 1 Nephi 9; 1 Nephi 19:1-6.) About twenty years later (ca. 570 B.C.) Nephi was given an additional writing assignment: he was to begin a record which would concentrate upon spiritual matters, the dealings and revelations of God with the Lehites. (2 Nephi 5:29-33.) This record, known to us as the small plates, covers the material in the Book of Mormon from 1 Nephi through the book of Omni (143 pages in the 1981 edition), approximately 475 years of Nephite history. At the time of King Benjamin (Mosiah 1), the small plates came to a close, and the large plates were thereafter used to record both secular and spiritual doings.

Nephi was writing upon (and we are now reading from) the small plates, a record which, incidentally, was written in retrospect, thirty years after the fact. Nephi desired the limited room on this smaller set of plates for "the things of God," the things of greatest worth unto the children of men. Such matters as genealogy-certainly of importance-are to be found on the large plates. Nephi's hope and intent? "That I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved." Some things simply are more valuable and more conducive to bringing men to Jehovah, who is Christ the Lord. Nephi and those of his descendants who have editorial responsibilities for these plates were solemnly selective in what they recorded, always considering the overall purpose for which this set of plates was written and preserved. (Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1 by Robert L. Millet, Joseph Fielding McConkie)

You can read what was written by Nephi and what is stated by Millet. Nephi stated, Lehi in fact, kept a record. What was contained in that record, we simply don't know beside what Nephi stated. Adding further recordings due to space, was now given to secular history. What did Mormon narrative from the large plates? Following the pattern of the recorded narration of the Book of Mormon, after KB, I suspect it would be the same.

--> Justice, I have captured your postings to read over tonight...

Edited June 29, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Justice]

Let me first state in - my opinion -, there were more records by the Nephites than the record of Lehi and the smaller plates of Nephi.

Yes, for sure. I was only stating it that was to draw a distinction between the Small Plates and all the other plates, most of which constitute the Large Plates of Nephi.

We agree.

[Hemidakota]

Let you know, this has opened my eyes on this subject. It is a blessing to have you present your viewpoint.

[Justice]

And all the ancient plates, Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt, inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great sacred depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father.

I still have not straightened this out in my mind. I know that Mormon buried the Brass Paltes and the Large Plates of Nephi (and many other records) before he gave his abridgement, the Small Plates, and the Plates of Ether to Moroni. I'm not certain he buried them in Cumorah, or, I'm not certain if the hill he buried them in (if it was called Cumorah) was the same hill as the one Moroni buried his records in. To me, it doesn't matter either way, the plates are hidden and we can't or won't get them until we're ready for them.

I'll ponder on this a bit more. Perhaps it was the same hill.