Would You Buy This Doll?

[Winnie G]

OKthis Really bothers me,

Your so right pushka! Would we not want our children to understand and respect others cultures.

Knowledge bad iterance good.

“Islamic dress has nothing to do with "appeasing a man,"

Ok I see so wearing modestly by our church standers is an appeasing priesthood.

I worked surrounded by those who are Islamic many times, I know their wife’s and their children and seen the respect they show their own mothers. we could take note of how they treat there elderly.

I really take offence that you would assume their evil people who miss treat and oppress women.

It's a small world, ether you deal with your All Islamicis are the same mentality or you are going to be very uncomfortable in your own skin.

Multiculturalism is scary I mean really we would not want that after all whites might marry blacks some day.

[Outshined]

“Islamic dress has nothing to do with "appeasing a man,"

Ok I see so wearing modestly by our church standers is an appeasing priesthood.

I worked surrounded by those who are Islamic many times, I know their wife’s and their children and seen the respect they show their own mothers. we could take note of how they treat there elderly.

I really take offence that you would assume their evil people who miss treat and oppress women.

It's a small world, ether you deal with your All Islamicis are the same mentality or you are going to be very uncomfortable in your own skin.

Exactly. That's what we're trying to get Ari to understand.

[pushka]

A website with a little info on the original Barbie doll and those that came later...with pics!

http://www.littledoll.com/id/id.html

And here's a link to Mattel's official site for Barbie Doll Collectors...showing their Vintage Doll Collection page:

http://www.barbiecollector.com/vintage/

[Aristotle]

Little girls like to dress like Barbie. I wouldn't want my daughter to think she had to cover herself from head to toe, as is required of Islamic women who are subjected to and under the jurisdiction of the male.

Do you suppose that the American Barbie would be promoted in the Middle East? And if so, wouldn't the little girls want to dress like the fashionable American women?

OKthis Really bothers me,

Your so right pushka! Would we not want our children to understand and respect others cultures.

Knowledge bad iterance good.

Ok I see so wearing modestly by our church standers is an appeasing priesthood.

I worked surrounded by those who are Islamic many times, I know their wife’s and their children and seen the respect they show their own mothers. we could take note of how they treat there elderly.

I really take offence that you would assume their evil people who miss treat and oppress women.

It's a small world, ether you deal with your All Islamicis are the same mentality or you are going to be very uncomfortable in your own skin.

Multiculturalism is scary I mean really we would not want that after all whites might marry blacks some day.

Whoa, Winnie! Don't put words in my mouth...I never said Islamic people are evil, so no need to take offense! And I'm very comfortable in my skin...in my clothes...in my country. Which is why I see no need to promote their lifestyle in the form of buying an Islamic Barbie doll for my daughter.

[LionHeart]

I will be buying no dolls!!!

[Fiannan]

This article deals with the ORIGINAL history of many American girl's favorite doll:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1997/11/26harlot.html

Very interesting, as the German soldier on Laugh In used to say.

[Outshined]

Little girls like to dress like Barbie. I wouldn't want my daughter to think she had to cover herself from head to toe, as is required of Islamic women who are subjected to and under the jurisdiction of the male.

Again, you misunderstand Shar'ia law; it has nothing to do with being "under the jurisdiction of the male."

[Winnie G]

My wonderful understanding aunt makes Mennonite cloths for her granddaughters dolls.

One of her older sons is a convert to the Mennonite faith. It is a faith that comes from the Amish but they do not live in a colony and in brace the basic needs of modern man. Power running water etc.

Their children are home schooled and there is no TV in their home.

Their children’s toys are simple and modest.

They are the most loving children I have ever met, they do not fight with their siblings and score amazingly well on there state exams.

I have felt a kinship towards this cousin more then he is just my cousin but a man I respect and honor.

The respect he shows his children and wife is a model to my self and those around him.

He is a man who Never raises his voice but to shout a warning danger.

His daughters are what all parents in side the church would dream of in modesty.

If I was in to dolls I would most likely but one other in that I will as my aunt has done make modest cloths for my grandaughter barbies when they are older.

Just becouse we like in this world does not mean we become the world.

[Aristotle]

Again, you misunderstand Shar'ia law; it has nothing to do with being "under the jurisdiction of the male."

Are you saying that Middle Eastern women are not under the jurisdiction of their husbands/brothers/fathers? Are you also saying that if a Middle Eastern woman opposes the male (causing embarassment for the male), that the male does not have the right to behead the female?

Just becouse we like in this world does not mean we become the world.

The world I live in is America! As an American woman, I dress accordingly...which is modestly...not covered from head to toe, but neither in a revealing manner. And I would want my American daughter to follow suit.

[Outshined]

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Again, you misunderstand Shar'ia law; it has nothing to do with being "under the jurisdiction of the male."

Are you saying that Middle Eastern women are not under the jurisdiction of their husbands/brothers/fathers? Are you also saying that if a Middle Eastern woman opposes the male (causing embarassment for the male), that the male does not have the right to behead the female?

I'm saying that the dress code has nothing to do with "pleasing men" or being under their rule; it is religious law that dictates such things.

Men only kill female family members over major issues like infidelity; if they have other problems it is usually a divorce matter.

You might be surprised to know that Middle Eastern families are largely matriarchal; sons (as well as their wives) are lorded over by their mothers. Inside the home, the woman of the house is usually in charge.

Just helping clear up more misconceptions about Muslim society.

[Aristotle]

I'm saying that the dress code has nothing to do with "pleasing men" or being under their rule; it is religious law that dictates such things.

Men only kill female family members over major issues like infidelity; if they have other problems it is usually a divorce matter.

You might be surprised to know that Middle Eastern families are largely matriarchal; sons (as well as their wives) are lorded over by their mothers. Inside the home, the woman of the house is usually in charge.

Just helping clear up more misconceptions about Muslim society.

The religious law is set forth by a male figurehead.

The female should not be killed by the male for any reason.

That pretty much clears up any misconceptions. ;-)

[Outshined]

The religious law is set forth by a male figurehead.

The female should not be killed by the male for any reason.

That pretty much clears up any misconceptions.

Actually the religious law is set up by their faith; it is not dictated by male or female roles. Their laws are for all to follow. If we really had a "Christian nation," we'd be dictated by religion as well, and people would be bashing us about it.

They live by their religion and their law; I don't try to dictate what they should or shouldn't do. As I said, they see our country as corrupt and sinful anyway; they don't care what we think. Having lived there I believe I have few, if any, misconceptions about their culture.

[shanstress70]

Men only kill female family members over major issues like infidelity; if they have other problems it is usually a divorce matter.

When a woman is raped, do you consider that infidelity? Because that can result in a women be beheaded, or killed in another hideous way!

BTW, how about we move all discussion of Arab women into this thread, instead of carrying on about it in the polygamy thread? Is that OK with you guys?

[Outshined]

When a woman is raped, do you consider that infidelity? Because that can result in a women be beheaded, or killed in another hideous way!

I don't know why that sometimes happens (I don't know all the points of their laws), but the rapist is killed hideously as well, often mutilated first. Women are not always killed for rape; only if they can not prove that it happened. Yes, that law stinks, but that's how it is.

I also know that if a woman kills her rapist, she is not charged with any crime, and if she dies during a rape she is considered a martyr.

Islamic law is very harsh, and I would hate to live under it.

BTW, how about we move all discussion of Arab women into this thread, instead of carrying on about it in the polygamy thread? Is that OK with you guys?

Yes, it gets confusing to try and bounce between different threads on the same subject.

[Aristotle]

Actually the religious law is set up by their faith; it is not dictated by male or female roles. Their laws are for all to follow. If we really had a "Christian nation," we'd be dictated by religion as well, and people would be bashing us about it.

They live by their religion and their law; I don't try to dictate what they should or shouldn't do. As I said, they see our country as corrupt and sinful anyway; they don't care what we think. Having lived there I believe I have few, if any, misconceptions about their culture.

Middle Eastern countries are governed by a male deity, and by male rulers...without a constitutional amendment establishing "separation of church and state"; the abuse of women/children is accepted by law.

Our founders established America as a Christian nation, without partiality to one particular Christian denomination over another. We are governed by Christian principles; The Ten Commandments, which continues to be displayed on [certain] courtroom walls, protects the innocent: "Thou Shalt Not Kill" [neither women, children, or the unborn.

[Outshined]

Middle Eastern countries are governed by a male deity, and by male rulers...without a constitutional amendment establishing "separation of church and state"; the abuse of women/children is accepted by law.

You choose to focus on a "male diety," but they don't. To them it is God, and they live by their understanding of His rules. Our Heavenly Father is a "male Diety," and our Church is led by the Priesthood.

Our founders established America as a Christian nation, without partiality to one particular Christian denomination over another. We are governed by Christian principles; The Ten Commandments, which continues to be displayed on [certain] courtroom walls, protects the innocent: "Thou Shalt Not Kill" [neither women, children, or the unborn.

Actually it was established to be without preference to any faith, Christian or otherwise.

Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

[Aristotle]

You choose to focus on a "male diety," but they don't. To them it is God, and they live by their understanding of His rules. Our Heavenly Father is a "male Diety," and our Church is led by the Priesthood.

Of course the distinction is that our priestood leaders are not beheading women when they disagree!

Actually it was established to be without preference to any faith, Christian or otherwise.

And I can illustrate this point...

Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state...we are not to attribute this prohibition of a national religious establishment (in the First Amendment) to an indifference to religion in general, and especially to Christianity, which none could hold in more reverence than the framers of the constitution...

- Joseph Story, appointee to Pres. James Madison

[Outshined]

Of course the distinction is that our priestood leaders are not beheading women when they disagree!

But that is their understanding of God, and they see no reason to look to the US for guidance.

Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state...we are not to attribute this prohibition of a national religious establishment (in the First Amendment) to an indifference to religion in general, and especially to Christianity, which none could hold in more reverence than the framers of the constitution...

- Joseph Story, appointee to Pres. James Madison

Which does not say that the country was meant to be "Christian." In fact, Jefferson made it clear that it was to honor all faiths equally. See the above post.

[Aristotle]

But that is their understanding of God, and they see no reason to look to the US for guidance.

But they have looked to us for guidance...and I don't see anymore news stories of innocent women and children being murdered and thrown into mass graves.

Which does not say that the country was meant to be "Christian." In fact, Jefferson made it clear that it was to honor all faiths equally. See the above post.

It has already been established that America is a Christian nation.

[Outshined]

But they have looked to us for guidance...and I don't see anymore news stories of innocent women and children being murdered and thrown into mass graves.

I think you're confusing Iraq with the whole Middle East. Arab countries do not look to us for guidance; as I said, they consider us corrupt and sinful. The strictest Muslim country I've been to is Saudi Arabia; hard-line Shar'ia law.

It has already been established that America is a Christian nation.

Well, it's been established that you are of that opinion, anyway...

[Guest Unorthodox]

I think you're confusing Iraq with the whole Middle East. Arab countries do not look to us for guidance; as I said, they consider us corrupt and sinful. The strictest Muslim country I've been to is Saudi Arabia; hard-line Shar'ia law.

Agreed.

Saddam Hussein's government was secular, not Muslim.

And I might be wrong about this, but Saudi Arabia is not known for mass graves.

[Aristotle]

Iraq is in the Middle East; hence...mass graves.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Iraq is in the Middle East; hence...mass graves.

So you are assuming, as you said above...

Middle Eastern countries are governed by a male deity, and by male rulers...

In the case of Iraq, it was governed by Saddam Hussein, who was not a religious figure, but a military dictator. Saddam did not consider Allah to be the ruler of Iraq.

Iraq's laws were not Islamic laws, but secular laws.

That was the point being made.

[Aristotle]

The point being made is the fact that Middle Eastern women are beheaded by men.

[Guest Unorthodox]

The point being made is the fact that Middle Eastern women are beheaded by men.

Men are beheaded by men too, if they break certain laws.

Here in the USA, we just inject 'em with chemicals till they're dead.