Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Christianity corrupted by human quest for power could produce Iran-like conditions (aka The Crusades and the Inquisition). BTW, I don't think that was a Catholic problem. I dare say, a Mormon government--again corrupted by human power-lust--could be just as extreme.Lord Acton was right. Power corrupts! Christianity is the foundation of this country's ethos, and the dominant cultural force. However, America is not a legal or political theocracy, and Christian would be wise to continue to be salt and light, and remember that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world."I agree with you on that. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi Ari,What's up with all of your deleted messages in this and other threads? It's really annoying when someone is trying to read the threads... it's makes everything confusing. If you change your mind about something in the end, it's OK to just state that you've changed your mind. No need to go take out everything up to that point.Sorry, but I've not changed my mind on any issue! I just found it futile arguing with closed-minded people.- Mrs. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>Hi Ari,What's up with all of your deleted messages in this and other threads? It's really annoying when someone is trying to read the threads... it's makes everything confusing. If you change your mind about something in the end, it's OK to just state that you've changed your mind. No need to go take out everything up to that point.Sorry, but I've not changed my mind on any issue! I just found it futile arguing with closed-minded people.- Mrs. AFutile enough to go back and change (delete) everything? That must've taken a long time. Looks like you would've just stopped arguing from that point forward... but what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 ...and remember that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world."Hi, prisonchaplain... LDS believe in the Second Coming. America was established as a Christian nation by our Founding Fathers, in preparation for the Lord's return. - Mrs. AFutile enough to go back and change (delete) everything? That must've taken a long time. Looks like you would've just stopped arguing from that point forward... but what do I know? To each his own. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I've not changed my mind on any issue! I just found it futile arguing with closed-minded people.- Mrs. ADitto! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 "Arguments out of a pretty mouth are unanswerable." ~ Joseph Addison, Women and Liberty English essayist, poet, & politician (1672 - 1719) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Petty disagreements about deleting posts aside, it is annoying to readers of the threads, as they stop making sense when lots of posts are changed or deleted. I am requesting that people do it judiciously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 “If you argue and rankle and contradict, you may achieve a temporary victory - sometimes; but it will be an empty victory because you will never get your opponent's good will” -Anonymous B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Edited by Aristotle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 This thread has gotten And terribly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 "The greatest conflicts are not between two people but between one person and himself." - Garth Brooks, Country Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Is there a point to repetition of the off-topic country music quotes besides taking up space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Is there a point to yours? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Petty disagreements about deleting posts aside, it is annoying to readers of the threads, as they stop making sense when lots of posts are changed or deleted.I am requesting that people do it judiciously...That and pointless posts just to take up space on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 America was established as a Christian nation by our Founding Fathers, in preparation for the Lord's return. - Mrs. A Oh, is that why they started the Revolution? So they could prepare for the Parousia? I'd like to see you find a quote from a Founding Father to back that up? And while Im at it, I am always amused by Conservatives who bash against Liberals....and yet hold up the Liberal Founding Fathers as though they're all on the same side? Sort of like your signature from a Liberal Abolitionist. You pretend that you appreciate the liberals of the past, but then you spend all your time trying to maintain the Status Quo in your own day. Seems rather hypocritical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 You're so patriotic, Jason! I love the red, white, and blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>America was established as a Christian nation by our Founding Fathers, in preparation for the Lord's return. - Mrs. A Oh, is that why they started the Revolution? So they could prepare for the Parousia? I'd like to see you find a quote from a Founding Father to back that up? And while Im at it, I am always amused by Conservatives who bash against Liberals....and yet hold up the Liberal Founding Fathers as though they're all on the same side? Sort of like your signature from a Liberal Abolitionist. You pretend that you appreciate the liberals of the past, but then you spend all your time trying to maintain the Status Quo in your own day. Seems rather hypocritical to me.Interesting challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi, prisonchaplain... LDS believe in the Second Coming. America was established as a Christian nation by our Founding Fathers, in preparation for the Lord's return. - Mrs. AThis may be worthy of a whole new thread...so I'll start one entitled: What cometh before the second coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Jason, political labels are quite misleading. Times change and that must be kept in mind. Was Lincoln a "liberal"? Hardly, his thoughts on race relations would have today's KKK members scratching their heads. Today. at least in America, conservatives are for limited government and for upholding traditional norms. By today's definition JFK would be conservative (he was anti-abortion -- Duffus Reid's Democrats would oppose him for the courts -- and if Reid had half a brain he'd realize Clinton would oppose him on the court as well since Reid is also on record as being anti-abortion). Liberals are statists -- a far cry from the founders of this nation. They support more government intervention in the economy and people's lives (i.e. how we should raise our kids). Yet they are libertarian on values like homosexual marriage,abortion and pornography. Strange combination, but certainly not something the founders would see as part of their philosophical makeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Jason, political labels are quite misleading. Times change and that must be kept in mind. Was Lincoln a "liberal"? Hardly, his thoughts on race relations would have today's KKK members scratching their heads.Today. at least in America, conservatives are for limited government and for upholding traditional norms. By today's definition JFK would be conservative (he was anti-abortion -- Duffus Reid's Democrats would oppose him for the courts -- and if Reid had half a brain he'd realize Clinton would oppose him on the court as well since Reid is also on record as being anti-abortion). Liberals are statists -- a far cry from the founders of this nation. They support more government intervention in the economy and people's lives (i.e. how we should raise our kids). Yet they are libertarian on values like homosexual marriage,abortion and pornography. Strange combination, but certainly not something the founders would see as part of their philosophical makeup.Intersting point. What to label someone who cannot identify with either modern movement? For example, Im not in favor of bigger government, but I am a social liberal in that I'd like to see homosexuals given equal rights, medical and insurance benefits, etc. Looks like we'll have to come up with a new label... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Intersting point. What to label someone who cannot identify with either modern movement? For example, Im not in favor of bigger government, but I am a social liberal in that I'd like to see homosexuals given equal rights, medical and insurance benefits, etc. Looks like we'll have to come up with a new label... You just might be a Libertarian. Many "classic liberals" find themselves in that camp. As a whole, the Libertarian tracks atheist/agnoistic/deist/etc. Doug Bandow was an evangelical, but he seemed the exception that proved the rule. Let me know if I've pegged you right, here. Also, I'll try to dig up the Libertarian political label test...it proved interesting. I pegged as a "moderate conservative." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 "The best evidence, which I have seen, that the current patriotic movement is wide, deep, and determined, is not in my correspondence files--but in the spectacle of the frenzied attack which the whole liberal-left-wing is currently making on American patriots. The liberals are scared: that's why they use lies, distortion, mis-quotations, guilt by association, nasty labels, and ugly innuendoes in their all-out campaign to discredit the 'super patriots' and 'extremists'." (Dan Smoot) The present anti-anti-communist line is: criticism of socialism is criticism of countries like Sweden with its socialistic government and that efforts against communism create disunity. The claim is that it divides our people and therefore should be discouraged. Many of our peoople--some in high places whose influence is far-reaching--fall for this anti-anti-communist line of reasoning. That we might face up properly to such a campaign of lies and name calling, we should accept the advice of Thomas Jefferson who warns us as follows: "If we suffer ourselves to be frightened from our posts by mere lying, surely the enemy will use that weapon...The patriot, like the Christian, must learn that to bear revilings and persecutions is a part of his duty; and in proportion as the trial is severe, firmness under it becomes more requisite and praiseworthy." Certainly, a true American cannot have too much patriotism. Surely Americans who have respect for our traditions, who support our freedoms and are willing to fight to preserve them have been called patriots from the very beginning of our nation. (Ezra Taft Benson, 1962, The Red Carpet, p.197-9) re: PROPHETS, PRINCIPLES AND NATIONAL SURVIVAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I question any so-called Patriot who would support an administration that spy's on it's civilians without an official warrant. "Those who sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Why, do you have something to hide? "We can leave the spies to the FBI, but learning how our enemies are trying to subvert us is everybody's job." - Prophets, Principles and National Survival p. 247 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Why, do you have something to hide? "We can leave the spies to the FBI, but learning how our enemies are trying to subvert us is everybody's job." - Prophets, Principles and National Survival p. 247I believe we have laws in this country. I believe in Government that is designed to serve the people. I do not believe we must break the laws to protect the people. The laws protect the people. George W. Bush believes he is above the law. He believes he can violate the US Constitution under the guise of "protecting us". Bush is a Nazi in a Texas Cowboy hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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