Aristotle Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Repetition of opinion does not equal "truth;" it equals opinion repeated. Repetition = Learning = KnowledgeThis is the reason we go to Sunday school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 And if your Sunday School teacher repeats something that is opinion, it is still merely opinion. How humorous; the idea that any opinion repeated often enough becomes truth! (Though I suppose it is in the mind of the repeater... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 You said it, I didn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>And btw, I also think it was “wrong” for you to say that Aristotle and I don’t see what we see, especially when you openly admit the fact that you truly and simply don’t see it.Thanks Ray...it's good to see that others believe as I do.Heh, yeah, I know the feeling. And despite what others would have you think, there are some others who believe as us too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Great...so we've got Aristotle, Syble and Ray. The "holy trinity" of paranoia. Good for you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hey, Jason...does that "G" stand for "Grinch"? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hey, Jason...does that "G" stand for "Grinch"? LOLNah. Maybe Grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Syble Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 And if your Sunday School teacher repeats something that is opinion, it is still merely opinion. How humorous; the idea that any opinion repeated often enough becomes truth! (Though I suppose it is in the mind of the repeater... )LOL, isn't this what anti mormons do all the time. They keep repeating their half truths, convincing many weak minded people that they have told the whole truth until they themselves are convinced. LOL What is taught in church, if from the manuel, is the truth. It may be your opinion that it isn't truth but just opinion still they same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I think I’ll ask for some clarification from mzb before jumping down on him for what he was saying.For instance, if a country has a law against a woman killing a man, even if a man is trying to rape a woman, then it would be “just” for those who uphold that law to punish a woman for killing a man, even if a man is trying to rape a woman.I remain in utter shock! It is never just to execute a woman for defending herself against a rapist. Ray, are you serious, here? It's country's that have laws like this that lead me to declare, despite the seeming arrogance of it, that some cultures are better than others, some legal systems are superior to others, and yes, some religious systems produce better followers than others.The victims of state sanctioned rape have far more right to REVOLUTION than our anti-tax ancestors did, in my not so humble at all opinion. Ray, were the Abolitionists wrong in your view, too? Those who hid Jews from the Nazis? Those priests who produced phony conversion paperwork for Jews, to help them avoid the Holocaust? Romans 13 is true as a default, but even Jesus was executed by the Roman state--for violating their laws against claiming there was any king but Caesar (even if his kingdom was spiritual).Now, if someone doesn’t like that law, or if someone doesn’t think that law is “good”, then they should appeal to higher authorities to try to get that law changed, rather than simply violate the law and then complain that they don’t like the punishment that goes along with violating it.If we're talking about reducing/raising the speed limit, changing the tax structure, opposing a war, etc., I'll agree with you. But, state sanctioned rape? What if government passes laws against public conversion efforts? Will Mormon missionaries discontinue their efforts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Well, I rest my case...again...in regard to Middle Eastern women being under subjection to the male authority figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 LOL, isn't this what anti mormons do all the time. They keep repeating their half truths, convincing many weak minded people that they have told the whole truth until they themselves are convinced. LOL Yes, and we aren't falling for it... I'm glad you understand that repeating an opinion does not make it fact. And as long as our teachers stick to the material, they are giving us the truth; as we saw in the "Mormon Myth" thread, people often pass along bad information in the guise of truth.Well, I rest my case...again...in regard to Middle Eastern women being under subjection to the male authority figure!As I rest mine that you don't understand the system they live under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 As I rest mine that you don't understand the system they live under. I understand that it is evil and corrupt: Iran : A 17 Year Old Girl Is Sentenced To Death By Hanging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Let me put it this way: they think they are following the will of God, and doing the right thing. They are not knowingly doing bad things.To them, we are evil and corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yes, I understand that...but it is still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 … even Jesus was executed by the Roman state--for violating their laws against claiming there was any king but Caesar (even if his kingdom was spiritual).I will raise three points from what you have said here, though I can see I could raise a few more.First, Jesus did not claim to be a king over Rome, stating that His kingdom was “not of this world” (then). And even Rome recognized there were “kings” in other kingdoms, knowing those laws had no authority over them (Romans).Second. As you just stated, even our Lord submitted to the laws of other nations, even recognizing their authority to kill him… because He knew who gave them their authority. And if you don’t believe those governments did have the authority to kill our Lord, you must believe He actually killed Himself.Third. The example and teachings of our Lord teach us that we should obey the laws of other kingdoms when we find ourselves living among them, and when our governments enact and establish our laws, we should humbly and simply obey them... unless we improve them or God overrules their authority.What if government passes laws against public conversion efforts?Then our Lord would hold accountable the people who enacted those laws... which is another reason to be active in government.Would Mormon missionaries [in that event] discontinue their efforts?They should if they desired to be true to our Lord… unless we improve that law or our Lord overrules its authority.And btw, the fact that the American government was established by God doesn’t necessarily mean that God authorized the Rebellion… meaning that God can and always could accomplish His purposes regardless of what Man tries to do without Him... and even what Man "claims" to do by His authority.Or in other words, nobody should go around breaking a law just because they think "God" doesn't want them to obey "that" one, because God has made it clear that He wants us to obey all of our laws even when those in government will kill us.And btw, while I do thank God that I live in America, there is still a lot of work to be done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yes, I understand that...but it is still wrong.It is "evil", not necessarily "wrong".Heh, but instead of saying something that may add another 12 pages, I suggest giving more thought to our words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 It is "evil", not necessarily "wrong".Heh, but instead of saying something that may add another 12 pages, I suggest giving more thought to our words.Been there, done that. ;-)I understand that it is evil and corrupt: Iran : A 17 Year Old Girl Is Sentenced To Death By Hanging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 First, Jesus did not claim to be a king over Rome, stating that His kingdom was “not of this world” (then). And even Rome recognized there were “kings” in other kingdoms, knowing those laws had no authority over them (Romans). Second. As you just stated, even our Lord submitted to the laws of other nations, even recognizing their authority to kill him… because He knew who gave them their authority. And if you don’t believe those governments did have the authority to kill our Lord, you must believe He actually killed Himself.Jesus submitted to death on the cross as an atonement for our sins, not because he expected us to obey every government order, regardless of our how ungodly. Third. The example and teachings of our Lord teach us that we should obey the laws of other kingdoms when we find ourselves living among them, and when our governments enact and establish our laws, we should humbly and simply obey them... unless we improve them or God overrules their authority.If a government order is ungodly we are required to "obey God, not men." I agree that this should be a rare occurence, but one obvious case is when the 'authorities' order that the gospel not be preached. Paul and Silas were in prison for preaching the gospel. Authorities ordered them to cease and desist, and they said they could not. Likewise, during a Holocaust, I would argue that Christians were duty-bound to hide Jews. Martin Luther King's civil disobedience was a powerful Christian model for speaking the truth to power. And, as I've stated in previous topics, Old Testament prophets often got into trouble with kings specifically for calling them to look to God's laws rather than their own.Would Mormon missionaries [in that event] discontinue their efforts?They should if they desired to be true to our Lord… unless we improve that law or our Lord overrules its authority.90% of the Christians in China belong to the unregistered churches, because in the government-approved ones preachers are censored, they are not permitted to preach the resurrection, the miracles, etc. Romans 13, of course, is more than welcome.Or in other words, nobody should go around breaking a law just because they think "God" doesn't want them to obey "that" one, because God has made it clear that He wants us to obey all of our laws even when those in government will kill us.I agree with the general principle of obeying authorities, but disagree that God intended that to be 100% carte blanche for evil governments. Believers have historically suffered martyrdom for disobeying governments by preaching the gospel. Additionally, the whole idea of "just war" is that a government can be so evil it must be conquered. What if local citizens agree and form a resistance? Are they disobeying Romans 13, even while their Christian bretheren in the "enemy nation" are fighting for the same cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MrsS Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/601081013.htmNazanin, 17, was sentenced to death by hanging for defending herself against three rapists. A young girl who defended herself and her chastity against three male assailants who intended to kidnap and rape her causing injury to one of them who later died in hospital was condemned to death by hanging in an Islamic court in Iran. Nazanin who has seen no more than 17 Springs, all of which under the tyrannical rule of the Mullahs is now facing execution for trying to defend herself and her honor. Interesting article and insight into how things operate in the Middle East.I really am confused here. The topic is: Replying to Iran: A 17 year old girl is sentenced to death by hanging.She protected herself from two rapists and killed one of them. Why then are you all on a different topic? And arguing, and being rather nasty to each other? Those of you who are LDS, really are the worst. I am surprised by your un-Christ like attitudes. That was one of the reasons I waited for nearly two months before I joined this board. You were so curt, nasty, and disrespectful to each other. Then you all started to behave yourselves. Now you are back at it again. Even Primary age children have better manners than you all have. Get back to the topic ~ I feel such dread for her. You know help is not going to get to her soon enough. It seems rather lame to say: she is going to a better place. Yet it is true ~ plus she will suffer a lot before that. Then again, I wonder if this story really is true ~ or is it just a hoax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Why then are you all on a different topic? And arguing, and being rather nasty to each other? Those of you who are LDS, really are the worst. I am surprised by your un-Christ like attitudes. That was one of the reasons I waited for nearly two months before I joined this board. You were so curt, nasty, and disrespectful to each other. Then you all started to behave yourselves. Now you are back at it again. Even Primary age children have better manners than you all have. Get back to the topic ~ I don't believe I've been rude at all...nor would I categorize myself as being one of the worst here. And I've been on topic. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted February 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 MrsS, thanks. I had hoped that some people here would be inspired to do something as the article urges rather than debate over if Thomas Jefferson was Christian or Diest. Such a discussion about American political philosophy won't do this gal waiting to have her neck stretched any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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