Was this an appropriate lesson? Or was the teacher out of bounds?

[lizzy16]

In the 9th grade AP World class they're learning about Muslims and Islamic religions..

A friend just told me the teacher printed a prayer out, got a prayer rug and asked for a volunteer to show an example.

This bugs me for two reasons.

1) Its disrespecting for the Islamic religion...what if the teacher asked for a guy to demonstrate the sacrament or baptismal prayer ?

2) The teacher shouldn't be asking kids to pray in school....It's against the whole secular thing.

Its really bugging me.

Would I be out of place to report this?

[Wingnut]

Did the teacher actually ask the students to pray, or just to observe?

If the volunteer felt it was inappropriate or disrespectful, he/she wouldn't have done it. A Mormon asked to demonstrate the sacrament or baptism would readily agree to explain it*, but would explain that the ordinances themselves are sacred and that a classroom is neither the time nor the place. But a prayer is a prayer -- that can happen anywhere.

Would you be out of place to report it? Absolutely. What you know is only hearsay. You weren't there and can't give an eyewitness account.

*As a missionary, I found that it was quite common for elders to "practice" baptism with their investigators prior to an actual date. This was not an everyday thing, and was never done lightly. It was always in the context of someone already having a firm baptismal date, and was part of the preparation process to help set them at ease. An elder would practice the stance with the person, tell them "I'll say the prayer -- it's short," (or something like that, without using the actual words in the demo), and do a mock dunk of the person.

[lizzy16]

Did the teacher actually ask the students to pray, or just to observe?

Observe someone else pray.

I just feel like if there was an Islamic person in the room doing a 'rehearsal' of a sacred prayer would offend them. Personally I see it as very disrespectfull.

[Guest]

Observe someone else pray.

I just feel like if there was an Islamic person in the room doing a 'rehearsal' of a sacred prayer would offend them. Personally I see it as very disrespectfull.

I don't see this the same way. I see this as an "object lesson". In Montessori-style teaching, a lesson is better learned when the student can use all his senses to process the lesson. Therefore, Montessori students do not just learn about reptiles from textbooks, they bring a reptile to school and take 3 years observing the thing.

I see the prayer-rug thing as - not inviting somebody to pray to the Muslim god - but to demonstrate how it is done beyond the textbook.

If somebody asks my children to demonstrate baptism - they will gladly go to the front of the room, ask somebody to volunteer as the convert, and then, in the absence of a pool of water, pretend to dip the person down to the imaginary water. It is a demonstration - not something of any value beyond learning how LDS people perform baptisms.

One must learn when a person is deliberately mocking somebody's faith as opposed to true pursuit of knowledge. A school is where you learn about things... that includes Social Studies which definitely includes religious practice of certain societies. Being overly sensitive about faith can serve as a stumbling block for an open forum of true learning.

Edited March 11, 2011 by anatess

[Wingnut]

Observe someone else pray.

Then there is nothing legally untoward about it.

[Jenamarie]

Then there is nothing legally untoward about it.

I have to agree. At first I was a little unsure, but then I thought "Is it any different than showing the class a YouTube video of the same?"

I'm assuming the student just demonstrated the physical motions of the prayer?

And "secular" doesn't mean complete and total absense of religion. It's just an absense of an *endorsed* religion. You can hardly have a complete knowledge of the world without learning about religion. Doesn't mean you have to believe in any of them.

[Dravin]

And "secular" doesn't mean complete and total absense of religion. It's just an absense of an *endorsed* religion. You can hardly have a complete knowledge of the world without learning about religion. Doesn't mean you have to believe in any of them.

Indeed. It's like someone complaining about a teacher who has section of the curriculum about modern religions talking about the various religions creation beliefs and reading sections of their Holy Books to flesh out the explanation. Perfectly kosher*.

*heh!

[ferretrunner]

I would hope the teacher asked the student prior to giving the example if that was ok with his beliefs/ comfort level. I don't see a problem with it at a basic level. No one is forced to believe or participate beyond observing. If I were teaching a lesson on Islam, I might have someone explain the motions, the purpose of the rug, etc. I might also ask him to demonstrate the Call to Prayer (if appropriate) or bring a recording and explain it. I would love to see a world religions class taught in schools. Nothing in the way of trying to convert people but rather help people understand others better.

[Wingnut]

I'm assuming the student just demonstrated the physical motions of the prayer?

Well, it sounds as if the student was asked to read a prayer, but it's still, as you said, not an endorsement of a specific religion, but rather a demonstration of one that we rightfully need to know more about.

[Saldrin]

have them do a christian prayer as an object lesson like this and watch everyone go ballistic

[Jenamarie]

have them do a christian prayer as an object lesson like this and watch everyone go ballistic

We watched video of a Catholic Mass when I was in HS in California. Nobody mentioned anything inappropriate about it. It showed the prayers, the blessings, the distribution of the Communion, etc.

[Elphaba]

have them do a christian prayer as an object lesson like this and watch everyone go ballistic

No one would go ballistic. There's a difference between saying a prayer in a religious manner and saying one in an educational manner. The first, a violation of the Establishment Clause, is prohibited. The second, which would be your object lesson, is allowed.

Elphaba