You last visited: 12-27-2009 at 10:26 AM

[Lost_one]

I think you are already on the right track in realizing that it's your pride that has gotten in the way.

My pride has always been my stumbling block and I have always known that. That is when I'm not lying to myself of course. I am listening to uplifting music on youtube at the moment. YouTube - Put Your Shoulder To The Wheel - The Mormon Tabernacle Choir Anyone got any scripture recommendations they feel might help me? I'm looking for things to strengthen my spirit.

[Guest]

My pride has always been my stumbling block and I have always known that. That is when I'm not lying to myself of course. I am listening to uplifting music on youtube at the moment. YouTube - Put Your Shoulder To The Wheel - The Mormon Tabernacle Choir Anyone got any scripture recommendations they feel might help me? I'm looking for things to strengthen my spirit.

I don't have a particular scripture in mind right now but last Sunday, we were going over the song He Died That We Might Live Again in Primary (in the Children Songbook) and I think it is completely fitting for you right now...

I'm the song leader in primary and when I was trying to teach the kids that song, I had to stop and pause because I was starting to cry! Crazy, I know...

[Lost_one]

I don't have a particular scripture in mind right now but last Sunday, we were going over the song He Died That We Might Live Again in Primary (in the Children Songbook) and I think it is completely fitting for you right now...

I'm the song leader in primary and when I was trying to teach the kids that song, I had to stop and pause because I was starting to cry! Crazy, I know...

I couldn't find it on youtube, But found a lesson plan about it. It's the first thing that comes up in google. I found a few verses in another site and thought the words were really nice. I don't have the childrens songbook. Is it in the normal hymn book?

I found these words:

He died that we might live again,

Lord Jesus, our Redeemer true.

He died on Calv’ry’s lonely hill.

His life he gave for me and you.

He rose from the grave on Easter morn,

Our Savior and our King.

He showed his love for all mankind.

For his great love, give thanks and sing.

Rejoice! Rejoice! and sing, sing, sing.

Is this the correct song?

Edited March 22, 2011 by Lost_one

[pam]

He Died That We Might Live Again in Primary

That's a new twist on the Atonement I had not heard of before. :)

[Mute]

I'm an ex-member of the church. I mean proper ex-member, as in excommunicated, not just inactive. I have not been near an LDS church in years.

I am divorced father and visit my kids as often as possible. I live in Glasgow and my kids live in Aberdeen. My son has autism, so I am planning to move to the Aberdeen area as soon as possible, in order to help my ex and her (hopefully) future partner with his care.

A few days ago, due to circumstances out with my control, I was forced to stay at my exes parents house. While they are nice enough people, I have never felt comfortable around them. I am rather sensitive to fakeness, due to mental health issues.

Anyway! I just decided the best way to get through this situation was to bury my head in a book and take lots of very long walks. While sitting buried in my book one evening, they started studying for their church lessons. As they read out the scriptures I felt something strange. There was a strange atmosphere in the room. It was familiar to me. Now I consider myself a rational person, so I thought about it for a bit.

To begin with, I thought perhaps I was associating the scripture reading with happy memories, But quickly debunked that idea, because for me, nothing about going to church itself made me happy. Remember my sensitivity to fakeness. One thing I really did enjoy however was the visits from the missionaries and one part of their visit I particularly enjoyed were the little spiritual thoughts. I thought perhaps thats what it was, until I realised that even though I couldn't stand church, that strange atmosphere was stronger in church, than it was when the missionaries came.

Could it have been the spirit?

I don't know what it was that you felt but there are a lot of factors that can play an effect in how we feel. The tone of someone's voice, a word or phrase, music, a story, a book, a show on tv, a random thought or past memory, the weather outside, our diet, the amount of sleep we have, any medication we may have taken, our over all health, our enviroment and so much more can play an effect in how we feel. If you want to test out if this feeling was the holy spirit or not, you can possibly find that out by doing a "simple" test.

There is a scripture in the Book of Mormon that talks about the vineyard. Alma chapter 32. It talks about this feeling that will come.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

Pay close attention to your feelings as you read the Book of Mormon. Is this the same feeling you felt earlier? Is it a new feeling or do you feel nothing at all?

If it is the same feeling, then continue to read and see if this feeling grows over time. I would recommend you continue to read for a period of around 1-3 months for a regular amount of time each day. See how you feel after 1-3 months. Has this feeling increased at all? If it has, then continue reading and see if it continues to increase further. If it continues to increase, then it should also continue to enlighten your understanding to where maybe you will eventually know if it is the spirit or not. If this feeling continues to increase, then that is a good reason to continue to read and keep with it in order to possibly find out what it is. Now if this feeling simply persists but does not continue to enlighten your understanding as the verse says it will, then I would be tempted to say it is not the spirit.

The reason I say this is because there are activities that have given me particular feelings for long periods of time every time I have experienced them. Some movies have caused the same feelings every time I have watched them. Some games have caused the same feelings every time I have played them. Some places have given me the same feelings/thoughts every time I have visited them. Simple excitement or feeling uplifted/inspired by something does not necessarily mean it is the holy spirit. I felt rather good about the speech in Braveheart. I was inspired by it. Would I say that is the holy spirit confirming to me that we need to fight for FREEEEDOOOOMMMM!!!!? I would not say that just as I would not say me feeling loved by others is the same as me feeling the spirit because the spirit is described as love.

GALATIANS

CHAPTER 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

If this feeling you feel is a different feeling than that described in the verses of Alma, then I would be tempted to say the feeling you felt may not be the spirit but another feeling caused by other factors.

If you don't feel anything from reading the Book of Mormon, there are a few possible factors you could still consider. You could try doing your best to live what the lds faith believes to be righteous living. I would recommend that you do your best to live righteously for a period of about 3 months first without actually reading scriptures. Now why am I suggesting you do this for 3 months before reading any scriptures? It is to eliminate the possible factor of you simply feeling a good feeling because of changes in your life style. If these changes cause you to be more outgoing and as a result you do better in say your career, love life, physical health etc, these could all cause you to feel good feelings. So by becomming familiar to your feelings by simply living righteously, you can elminate the possibility of you mistaking a good feeling from reading the scriptures as the spirit that may simply be caused by a change in your life style.

If you don't feel anything from reading, there is another factor to still try. One way to possibly eliminate the question of whether or not you can feel this feeling while not trying to live righteously is to simply try praying while not living righteously. Then see how you feel. Do you still get a burning in the bosom? Do still get all the characteristics of this feeling regardless of your actions? That is of course assuming you are not living righteously and weren't when you noticed this feeling. You could also try praying and see if this causes the feeling. However, you should keep in mind what your intentions are for wanting to know. Is it simply out of curiosity or is because you have a desire to act upon the knowledge if you were told the lds faith was true?

MORONI

CHAPTER 10

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

The Epistle of James chapter 1 verse 5

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

There is also the factor that you are not baptized and that may be a reason for why you may not feel this feeling constantly but you shouldn't have to be baptized to at least test this feeling. Just because you would not have this as a constant companion does not mean you wouldn't be able to feel it at all. If this feeling is indeed what the Book of Mormon says it is, it should still increase your understanding and cause these swelling motions regardless of whether or not you are baptized. Else how would they expect anyone to test this?

There is also the possability of unknown factors that I have not thought of.

Be honest with your feelings. You may be feeling excited or hoping this may be the spirit. It is fine to hope and it may be that this feeling is the spirit but it is important to remember that it may also not be. It is important that you are willing to accept that and not be quick to rush and believe something is the spirit if it is not. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe but just be careful in what you are quick to believe. Be patient with it and I hope you find the truth you are looking for. Good luck in your search.

Over all this feeling should be something that eliminates all doubt in your mind that this could possibly be anything else or at least give you reason to believe that it could indeed be the spirit and not something else. If this feeling increases as the verses in Alma say it would, then that would eventually let you eliminate all other possibilities of this being anything else other than the spirit. Thus you would eventually "know" if the lds faith is true or not. You are demonstrating faith by keeping with it and you are not simply acting upon blind faith. You are testing it out.

I would also ignore anyone trying to tell you what you feel. Only you know what you feel and it no ones place to tell you what you personally feel/know.

[Lost_one]

Hi Mute,

I see where you are coming from. You are telling me to test the theory? To know it by the fruit it produces? I do this with everything already. While I can be impulsive, I have learnt over the years to be careful when it comes to things like the spirit or God in general. I will test it over the next few months. I have no intention of just jumping in. I am asking for scriptures that will help me test this feeling. I might sit and watch a conference, if I can find one online. If I do, I will have a note pad beside me and will note down any changes to myself or the room itself. I can then look at the results and see what can be debunked as simple emotional empathy and what if anything is unexplainable. I will then test it further with reading scripture and listening to talks and see if there is a pattern. I will also see it the spirit feeling I experienced at my ex in laws can be recreated by other means. Softly spoken poetry being a good example.

I have learnt to test everything. I have been in other churches and 'felt the spirit' and observed that feeling grow. To understand what I felt I will attempt to describe it. This thing seemed to be floating around 4' in the air. It was heavy, warm and fragrant. It stretched from my ex in laws to me. Around 10'. It was not a burning in my breast, But a physical thing. While I couldn't physically see it, I could see it in my mind. Just to point out. I really don't like my ex in laws and find their voices annoying. Remember I am very sensitive to voice tone and theirs just get my goat. But when they were reading the scriptures, their voices seemed to change. Thats quite common by the way, But it didn't sound like them. It was soft, almost not there. This probably makes little sense unfortunately.