Guest antishock82003 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Osborne+Jan 25 2004, 09:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paul Osborne @ Jan 25 2004, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 25 2004, 07:33 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Jan 25 2004, 05:58 PM Peace,Antishock joys in sharing the antiMormon gospel with us and no doubt hopes to convert us so that he can have joy with us in the kingdom he will be going to. Paul O Narnia? Sorry, I live in reality; not a fantasty world. Paul O ROTFLMBO Now, THAT was funny! Quote
Jenda Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by Peace+Jan 25 2004, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 25 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Paul Osborne@Jan 25 2004, 09:34 PM Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 25 2004, 07:33 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Jan 25 2004, 05:58 PM Peace,Antishock joys in sharing the antiMormon gospel with us and no doubt hopes to convert us so that he can have joy with us in the kingdom he will be going to. Paul O Narnia? Sorry, I live in reality; not a fantasty world. Paul O What is narnia? Narnia is the world that Aslan the lion rules in the Chronicles of Narnia. It is a set of childrens theological books (fiction) by C.S. Lewis. It is amazingly restoration in many of it's views. Aslan=Christ. He brings the kids to Narnia (from our world) to show them how to know Him in the real world.<span style=\'color:purple\'>NARNIA RULES! Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by Jenda+Jan 26 2004, 05:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jan 26 2004, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Peace@Jan 25 2004, 11:25 PM Originally posted by -Paul Osborne@Jan 25 2004, 09:34 PM Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 25 2004, 07:33 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Paul Osborne@Jan 25 2004, 05:58 PM Peace,Antishock joys in sharing the antiMormon gospel with us and no doubt hopes to convert us so that he can have joy with us in the kingdom he will be going to. Paul O Narnia? Sorry, I live in reality; not a fantasty world. Paul O What is narnia? Narnia is the world that Aslan the lion rules in the Chronicles of Narnia. It is a set of childrens theological books (fiction) by C.S. Lewis. It is amazingly restoration in many of it's views. Aslan=Christ. He brings the kids to Narnia (from our world) to show them how to know Him in the real world.<span style=\'color:purple\'>NARNIA RULES! All I have read of CSLewis are the Screwtapes...or whatever they are called and that was over twenty years ago..I am going to look up this Narnia.... :) Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 Hey...I just looked it up and it is the witch, wardrobe thing.....I haven't read it, but I will now. : ) Thanks! Quote
Jenda Posted January 26, 2004 Report Posted January 26, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Jan 26 2004, 04:15 PM Hey...I just looked it up and it is the witch, wardrobe thing.....I haven't read it, but I will now. : ) Thanks! There are seven books in the Chronicles of Narnia. They are (in the order they were written):The Lion, the Witch and the WardrobePrince CaspianThe Voyage of the Dawn TreaderThe Silver ChairThe Horse and His BoyThe Magicians NephewThe Last BattleThey were not written in chronological order. As they are being sold now, they are placed in chronological order. To get them into chronological order, you need to read The Magician's Nephew first. It details how Narnia came into being. The rest then follow the regular order. (The Horse and His Boy doesn't seem to fit in with any story, it is separate from the others completely, the only thing connecting it to the others is that it happens in Narnia.)The end of the third book makes it clear that Aslan is Christ, and I used that quote as a signature on another board for a long time. "This is the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there (our world)."I love Narnia! Narnia Rules!!!!!!!!!(now I am going to have to read them again. ) Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 27, 2004 Report Posted January 27, 2004 You know what's funny? Aslan is the one that helped my wife permanently escape xtianity and embrace Atheism (THANKS C.S. LEWIS!!!!!). There's this passage in the very last book in the Chronicles of Narnia where the world is ending and they showed this guy who worshipped the evil pagan god, but he's going to Heaven. I don't remember the details of the scene, but at some point Aslan explained that every good deed that was done in the name of the pagan god was actually done in his name, and that every bad deed done in his name was actually done in the pagan god's name....something to that effect. So, my wife realized that if there is any kind of good god out there...it must be true. So she stopped worrying about the xtian god, because as long as she's a good person she has no fear of for her soul in the afterlife. She doesn't need to go to church, praise his name, read the bible...just do what she thinks is right and she's set. Heck, she doesn't even need to believe in him, which she doesn't. And if there's a god out there that needs all that stuff...she thinks he sucks and doesn't really care what he does because she'd never worship or support It in any way shape or form. Anyways I think it's ironic that C.S. Lewis would be influential in my wife's "spiritual" development. Ha! Quote
Jenda Posted January 27, 2004 Report Posted January 27, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 26 2004, 06:36 PM You know what's funny? Aslan is the one that helped my wife permanently escape xtianity and embrace Atheism (THANKS C.S. LEWIS!!!!!). There's this passage in the very last book in the Chronicles of Narnia where the world is ending and they showed this guy who worshipped the evil pagan god, but he's going to Heaven. I don't remember the details of the scene, but at some point Aslan explained that every good deed that was done in the name of the pagan god was actually done in his name, and that every bad deed done in his name was actually done in the pagan god's name....something to that effect. So, my wife realized that if there is any kind of good god out there...it must be true. So she stopped worrying about the xtian god, because as long as she's a good person she has no fear of for her soul in the afterlife. She doesn't need to go to church, praise his name, read the bible...just do what she thinks is right and she's set. Heck, she doesn't even need to believe in him, which she doesn't. And if there's a god out there that needs all that stuff...she thinks he sucks and doesn't really care what he does because she'd never worship or support It in any way shape or form. Anyways I think it's ironic that C.S. Lewis would be influential in my wife's "spiritual" development. Ha! It took C.S. Lewis to teach her that? All she had to do was read Romans. Almost the entire book (and lots of the BoM) speaks to that issue. Those who are born without the law will be judged without the law. It's in there. Quote
srm Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 03:32 PM TestimonyPresident Gordon B. HinckleyGordon B. Hinckley, “Testimony,” Ensign, May 1998, 69Now, my dear friends, I pray for the direction of the Holy Spirit. It is three years now since you sustained me as President of the Church. May I say a few words of a personal nature?...As I mentioned earlier in this conference, I’ve recently been in Palmyra, New York. Of the events which occurred in that area, one is led to say: “a declaration, a straightforward assertion of truth as we know it. Youmust know that President Hinckley was referring to the experiences that Joseph had...right? Of course you do. Quote
srm Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 08:00 PM Dude. It wouldn't matter what quote, signed statement, videotaped-recording-from-Jospeh Smith-himself-piece-of-revelation/declaration we gave SRM. SRM is a Buffet Mormon. He simply picks and chooses what he likes, and discards the rest. He considers the Restaurant the vehicle of Truth...not the food. oops. no, you're wrong. Please provide the video and I'll ask you forgiveness As I said before. It is not the doctrine of the Church that the hills are the same. I asked for something from the scriptures or a revelation from the prophet.You provide me with talks from general Authorities. Of course I understand why you have to try to pound this strawman home. because you whole attack on the Church in this issue is based on it. you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole here. Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by srm+Jan 27 2004, 08:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (srm @ Jan 27 2004, 08:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 08:00 PM Dude. It wouldn't matter what quote, signed statement, videotaped-recording-from-Jospeh Smith-himself-piece-of-revelation/declaration we gave SRM. SRM is a Buffet Mormon. He simply picks and chooses what he likes, and discards the rest. He considers the Restaurant the vehicle of Truth...not the food. oops. no, you're wrong. Please provide the video and I'll ask you forgiveness As I said before. It is not the doctrine of the Church that the hills are the same. I asked for something from the scriptures or a revelation from the prophet.You provide me with talks from general Authorities. Of course I understand why you have to try to pound this strawman home. because you whole attack on the Church in this issue is based on it. you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole here. When your prophet said, "This testimony is now, as it has always been, a declaration, a straightforward assertion of truth as we know it.", I took his word for it. I just don't know what to say at this point. Good luck, SRM. Quote
srm Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003+Jan 27 2004, 09:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Jan 27 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -srm@Jan 27 2004, 08:42 PM <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 08:00 PM Dude. It wouldn't matter what quote, signed statement, videotaped-recording-from-Jospeh Smith-himself-piece-of-revelation/declaration we gave SRM. SRM is a Buffet Mormon. He simply picks and chooses what he likes, and discards the rest. He considers the Restaurant the vehicle of Truth...not the food. oops. no, you're wrong. Please provide the video and I'll ask you forgiveness As I said before. It is not the doctrine of the Church that the hills are the same. I asked for something from the scriptures or a revelation from the prophet.You provide me with talks from general Authorities. Of course I understand why you have to try to pound this strawman home. because you whole attack on the Church in this issue is based on it. you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole here. When your prophet said, "This testimony is now, as it has always been, a declaration, a straightforward assertion of truth as we know it.", I took his word for it. I just don't know what to say at this point. Good luck, SRM. Your argument is specious and you know it. You know that GBH was referring to the experiences that Joseph had not the Book of Mormon wars. You don't know what to say because you don't have a leg to stand on. Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 28, 2004 Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by srm+Jan 28 2004, 09:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (srm @ Jan 28 2004, 09:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 27 2004, 09:25 PM Originally posted by -srm@Jan 27 2004, 08:42 PM <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 08:00 PM Dude. It wouldn't matter what quote, signed statement, videotaped-recording-from-Jospeh Smith-himself-piece-of-revelation/declaration we gave SRM. SRM is a Buffet Mormon. He simply picks and chooses what he likes, and discards the rest. He considers the Restaurant the vehicle of Truth...not the food. oops. no, you're wrong. Please provide the video and I'll ask you forgiveness As I said before. It is not the doctrine of the Church that the hills are the same. I asked for something from the scriptures or a revelation from the prophet.You provide me with talks from general Authorities. Of course I understand why you have to try to pound this strawman home. because you whole attack on the Church in this issue is based on it. you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole here. When your prophet said, "This testimony is now, as it has always been, a declaration, a straightforward assertion of truth as we know it.", I took his word for it. I just don't know what to say at this point. Good luck, SRM. Your argument is specious and you know it. You know that GBH was referring to the experiences that Joseph had not the Book of Mormon wars. You don't know what to say because you don't have a leg to stand on. No. GBH was talking about his very own experience at the Hill Cumorah, in Western New York. GBH was testifying that the Spirit testified to him that THAT was THE Hill Cumorah...the one in the BoM. So strange you literally can't understand that... Quote
srm Posted January 28, 2004 Author Report Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003+Jan 28 2004, 01:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (antishock82003 @ Jan 28 2004, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -srm@Jan 28 2004, 09:22 AM Originally posted by -antishock82003@Jan 27 2004, 09:25 PM Originally posted by -srm@Jan 27 2004, 08:42 PM <!--QuoteBegin--antishock82003@Jan 23 2004, 08:00 PM Dude. It wouldn't matter what quote, signed statement, videotaped-recording-from-Jospeh Smith-himself-piece-of-revelation/declaration we gave SRM. SRM is a Buffet Mormon. He simply picks and chooses what he likes, and discards the rest. He considers the Restaurant the vehicle of Truth...not the food. oops. no, you're wrong. Please provide the video and I'll ask you forgiveness As I said before. It is not the doctrine of the Church that the hills are the same. I asked for something from the scriptures or a revelation from the prophet.You provide me with talks from general Authorities. Of course I understand why you have to try to pound this strawman home. because you whole attack on the Church in this issue is based on it. you are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole here. When your prophet said, "This testimony is now, as it has always been, a declaration, a straightforward assertion of truth as we know it.", I took his word for it. I just don't know what to say at this point. Good luck, SRM. Your argument is specious and you know it. You know that GBH was referring to the experiences that Joseph had not the Book of Mormon wars. You don't know what to say because you don't have a leg to stand on. No. GBH was talking about his very own experience at the Hill Cumorah, in Western New York. GBH was testifying that the Spirit testified to him that THAT was THE Hill Cumorah...the one in the BoM. So strange you literally can't understand that... That's what you basing it on? Come on. What is the hill called today? Here's a hint. It starts with 'C' and ends with umorah! If he were to give a talk near Moscow idaho and said something to the efect that here we are near Moscow. Would you think that our doctrine is that Moscow Idaho is the same Moscow in Russia. This is getting silly.LDS doctrine does not say where the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon is located because we do not know. The Lord has not revealed it. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 29, 2004 Report Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by srm@Jan 28 2004, 01:59 PM LDS doctrine does not say where the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon is located because we do not know. The Lord has not revealed it. The Lord has made known that the Hill Cumorah is in New York and this is an LDS standard teaching that may be appropriately proclaimed at every pulpit in the Church with the full backing of the apostles of Jesus Christ in the last days:Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith , chapter 14"The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York …The final struggles between the Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephite nation, about 400 A.D." Let the whole world hear it!!Paul O Quote
Guest bat Posted January 29, 2004 Report Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Osborne+Jan 28 2004, 07:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Paul Osborne @ Jan 28 2004, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--srm@Jan 28 2004, 01:59 PM LDS doctrine does not say where the Cumorah in the Book of Mormon is located because we do not know. The Lord has not revealed it. The Lord has made known that the Hill Cumorah is in New York and this is an LDS standard teaching that may be appropriately proclaimed at every pulpit in the Church with the full backing of the apostles of Jesus Christ in the last days:Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith , chapter 14"The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York …The final struggles between the Nephites and Lamanites were waged in the vicinity of the Hill Cumorah, in what is now the State of New York, resulting in the destruction of the Nephite nation, about 400 A.D." Let the whole world hear it!!Paul O No Paul,Internet mormons regularly dictate that it is not doctrine unless it has been voted on. The voting process is what makes something true. Reality mattereth not. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 29, 2004 Report Posted January 29, 2004 Bat,Internet Mormons that feel we need to vote on whether a member of the First Presidency has the Spirit when giving a carefully selected message are out of the way; this is not orthodox Mormonism. The excuse of calling for a vote in this case is a slam against the collaborated effort of the General Authorities and everything the Church stands for.I feel some LDS folks would be better off if they remained silent in their opinions against the General Authorities rather than confuse the rest of us with their inability to recognize the influence of the Spirit working through the apostles of Jesus Christ.In reference to the Cumorah of the Book of Mormon being in New York State, President Romney stood before the whole Church and bore witness as an apostle of the Lamb and said:"My beloved brothers and sisters, I invite you to join in a prayer that while I speak you and I may both enjoy the Spirit. I will give you a lesson today that the Lord has taken great pains to bring to us…Now my beloved brethren and sisters everywhere, both members of the Church and nonmembers, I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented to you today are true—both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come" The Lord has spoken through his apostles. Either we believe them or we do not. The choice is ours. I believe that President Romney spoke the truth and I believe he knew what he was talking about. The voices of the apostles on this matter are unified. Unbelieving members of the Church are obligated to seek confirmation from the Spirit that their testimony in this regard is verily true. My advice is that members of the Church dump the scholars who seek after another Cumorah and cultivate their faith.Paul O Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Even if the BoM is truly an ancient record written by Nephites, isn't it possible that the Hill Cumorah thing is just a story that a Nephite made up? Then we don't need to look for the Hill or evidence of any battles. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jan 29 2004, 06:33 PM Even if the BoM is truly an ancient record written by Nephites, isn't it possible that the Hill Cumorah thing is just a story that a Nephite made up? Then we don't need to look for the Hill or evidence of any battles. What purpose would it serve to believe in things that were not? That would be like believing in things that will not be. The stories in the BofM are true. All of them.Paul O Quote
Cal Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Paul, you said: The stories in the BofM are true. All of them. Have you read the one where the Bro. of Jared made these submarine things. Read a little physics, and then try not to laugh out loud. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 30, 2004 Report Posted January 30, 2004 Cal, I use to have a hard time believing that story. I worked through those difficulties by having some deep conversations with some highly intelligent persons on the Internet that explored possible ways in which the ships were constructed and conveyed upon the water. My fears were done away upon reaching a better understanding on how that voyage was accomplished. I know you think you are really smart, Cal, and that's ok-- but you'll never break my testimony of the BofM. About all you can do is keep yourself down. How about you work up a little faith and pray to God? He always listens to sincere prayer. Is that something you could do? Paul O Quote
srm Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Jan 29 2004, 09:40 PM Paul, you said: The stories in the BofM are true. All of them.Have you read the one where the Bro. of Jared made these submarine things. Read a little physics, and then try not to laugh out loud. It said that he made barges not submarines... Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 http://www.mormonismi.info/1.htmWhy would this hill in Western New York have the word 'Cumorah' spelled out on it in shrubbery if the Church didn't consider this to be THE Hill Cumorah? Quote
Paul Osborne Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 Antishock, The Church does consider this to be "the" hill. There are however some Latter-day Saints that simply have not come to terms with the position of the apostles who have spoken about this matter. They seem to feel the apostles just have their opinion and until God comes down and shouts it from a cloud they will not believe. It's a matter of faith. And, faith is a convenient attribute in which all doubt is wiped away as if in one giant stroke. Paul O Quote
Holdyourfire Posted February 8, 2004 Report Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw@Jan 24 2004, 08:48 AM I can't speak for anyone else's parents, but my dad never, not ONE TIME said "This church is true because I say it is." Instead, he said "I believe this church is true, and you need to find out for yourself whether or not you believe it's true." At a young age I was taught not to believe something just because my parents did, not to do something because they did it, but because I truly believed it in my heart and mind. Hardly any brainwashing going on. AFDAW, I'm curious. It's admirable that your dad encouraged you to find out for yourself if his church was true. Was he suggesting that you start from ground zero and impartially search out and compare many different religions/belief systems? Would your dad have been happy if you had chosen a different church or belief system than his? Or was the criteria only for finding out the if the church he raised you in was true/not true? Quote
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