Early teachings of Christianity

[apexviper13]

I found these quotes from early Christians and I figured some people might like them. It seems like early Christianity had a certain belief that Christians of today criticize. I'm sure you'll understand what belief I'm talking about after you read the quotes.

Thomas Aquinas, an early Roman Catholic: "God became man, that man might become God"

Maximus the Confessor: "He became what we are in order that we might be what He is,"

Gregory of Nazianus: "I may become God to the same extent as He became man"

Basil of Caesarea: "The Holy Spirit aids man in being made like God and the highest of all, being made God."

Origen, an early African Christian: "Flee with all in your power from being man and make haste to become gods."

Clement of Alexandria: "The soul [which is kept pure], receiving the Lord's power, studies to become a god."

[Guest tbaird22]

Just make sure there not out of context and stuff.

[apexviper13]

Just make sure there not out of context and stuff.

They're not.

[volgadon]

Why is Origen an early African Christian yet Clement an Alexandrine?

[volgadon]

I think in the case of the 13th century Thomas aquinas that the quote very much is out of context, given Aquinas' specific set of philosophical categories and the preservation of the divide between creature and Creator. It would be nice to see more than a brief sentence so we can appreciate the context.

[apexviper13]

I think in the case of the 13th century Thomas aquinas that the quote very much is out of context, given Aquinas' specific set of philosophical categories and the preservation of the divide between creature and Creator. It would be nice to see more than a brief sentence so we can appreciate the context.

Again, it's not out of context. In fact I found the sources.

The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

80 St. Athanasius, De inc., 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.

81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57: 1-4.

[MrShorty]

How about this one from this last February (though I'm sure he would be appalled and offended that I'm using his statement on an LDS message board to defend LDS doctrine, given the animosity that exists between many Protestants and Mormons.) In his February 3 (2011) radio broadcast for "Grace to You," John MacArthur, speaking about what will happen to us in heaven, said, "...there's one more component -- they would be made like the Son. As much as it is possible for redeemed humanity to be like incarnate deity, we will be like Jesus Christ." I expect the podcast is still available somewhere on the internet if you want put the statement in context.

The "as much as possible" part leaves plenty of room for, "That isn't what I/he meant." I still found it very interesting.

[apexviper13]

How about this one from this last February (though I'm sure he would be appalled and offended that I'm using his statement on an LDS message board to defend LDS doctrine, given the animosity that exists between many Protestants and Mormons.) In his February 3 (2011) radio broadcast for "Grace to You," John MacArthur, speaking about what will happen to us in heaven, said, "...there's one more component -- they would be made like the Son. As much as it is possible for redeemed humanity to be like incarnate deity, we will be like Jesus Christ." I expect the podcast is still available somewhere on the internet if you want put the statement in context.

The "as much as possible" part leaves plenty of room for, "That isn't what I/he meant." I still found it very interesting.

I've actually heard of that before.

[Vort]

I found these quotes from early Christians and I figured some people might like them. It seems like early Christianity had a certain belief that Christians of today criticize. I'm sure you'll understand what belief I'm talking about after you read the quotes.

Thomas Aquinas, an early Roman Catholic: "God became man, that man might become God"

Maximus the Confessor: "He became what we are in order that we might be what He is,"

Gregory of Nazianus: "I may become God to the same extent as He became man"

Basil of Caesarea: "The Holy Spirit aids man in being made like God and the highest of all, being made God."

Origen, an early African Christian: "Flee with all in your power from being man and make haste to become gods."

Clement of Alexandria: "The soul [which is kept pure], receiving the Lord's power, studies to become a god."

Unlike pretty much every other god worshiped by the ancients, the Hebrew God had certain very human characteristics that He demanded His worshipers take on themselves, such as patience, justice, longsuffering, kindness, mercy, and so forth. From the very beginning, God's covenant people have been expected to become like him and promised the blessings of inheriting "all that the Father hath". This was as true anciently as in the time of Christ, and of course today. All honest seekers after truth arrive at this point eventually.

Why is Origen an early African Christian yet Clement an Alexandrine?

"Clement of Alexandria" is how Clement is typically identified. Clement was thought (or at least supposed) to have been Greek, perhaps Athenian, and relocated to Alexandria, while Origen, Clement's successor as the head of the school at Alexandria, was thought to have been an Egyptian. Thus "Clement [the Greek] of Alexandria" and "Origen the African [Egyptian]".

[volgadon]

"Clement of Alexandria" is how Clement is typically identified. Clement was thought (or at least supposed) to have been Greek, perhaps Athenian, and relocated to Alexandria, while Origen, Clement's successor as the head of the school at Alexandria, was thought to have been an Egyptian. Thus "Clement [the Greek] of Alexandria" and "Origen the African [Egyptian]".

Thing is, Origen is typically identified as "Origen of Alexandria." Not surprising for someone who revived Clement's school in Alexandria and was responsible for a certain kind of exegesis known as Alexandrine (heavily borrowing from Jewish modes).I've actually never heard of "Origen the African" until this thread.

[volgadon]

Again, it's not out of context. In fact I found the sources.

The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

80 St. Athanasius, De inc., 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.

81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57: 1-4.

Honestly it looks like you culled some quotes from the catechism online without checking for context. The Aquinas quote has to do with the Eucharist. That should be the first clue that maybe he wasn't talking about what we think of when we hear deification.

[Vort]

Thing is, Origen is typically identified as "Origen of Alexandria." Not surprising for someone who revived Clement's school in Alexandria and was responsible for a certain kind of exegesis known as Alexandrine (heavily borrowing from Jewish modes).I've actually never heard of "Origen the African" until this thread.

I agree, I've never heard "Origen the African" either. But the attribution was to "Origen, an African Christian" or something like that. I was responding to your question why Origen was identified in the attribution as an African* while Clement is identified as "of Alexandria"**.

* Because Origen apparently was an African, or more specifically, an Egyptian.

** Because Alexandria was a Greek city and Clement was a Greek by birth, so it emphasizes his Greekness. Also because there is another famous Clement from Rome, so the civic appellations serve to distinguish which one you're talking about.

[volgadon]

I know very well that Clement is termed "of Alexandria". Origen is also termed that, and the distinction you are drawing between Greek and African is fairly meaningless considering that Egypt was Hellenised, Origen's own father bearing a Greek name. Why is one an African and not the other? Why say African when you mean Egyptian?

[Jason_J]

Again, it's not out of context. In fact I found the sources.

The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

80 St. Athanasius, De inc., 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.

81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57: 1-4.

But this isn't the context...it's a paragraph from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Can you please provide the surrounding context for the Aquinas quote?

[Jason_J]

It seems like early Christianity had a certain belief that Christians of today criticize.

By "Christians of today" I assume you mean Evangelicals? The belief in deification is found in both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church(es), though particularly more emphasized in the Eastern Churches (both Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox).

[volgadon]

Jason is the man to ask, he is a recent convert from Catholicism.