Franken Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Seriously, these two never cease to amaze me. How thick headed can you get? Just from reading in march madness and talking about it in seminary, these two have been forgiven so many times but yet still rebel against the lord. Even seeing an Angel didn't totally convince them. I think it's cool how like whenever they do something to Nephi and they realize they are wrong and ask for forgiveness, Nephi is just like "I forgive you" completely instantly. A second thought doesn't even cross his mind. That's really cool to me considering all the stuff that they did to him, I mean they threatened to kill him and he still loves them as much as he did before, Nephi is awesome! Anyone got any particular comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 It boils down to the type of people they were. Laman and Lemuel loved themselves and the things of the world while Nephi loved the Lord and his neighbors. Seeing an angel or the Lord Himself does not mean someone is going to go through true repentance and rebirth. What may happen is that, Laman for example, will start keeping the commandments out of fear. However, he is still the same person and has not changed. Doing things out of fear is not love because there is no fear in love, 1 John 4:18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Well that to, but as well, some people know matter what is proven to them, or what they have seen, will still continue to live there lives for themselves, because living a life for Christ is very demanding and at times very tough. Not to mention how those with alternative lifestyles look upon and treat those who choose to follow Christ. Some choose to take the "easy" way. And its very tempting at times. I pray none of us fall into that temptation. Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 3 2004, 10:58 AM Well that to, but as well, some people know matter what is proven to them, or what they have seen, will still continue to live there lives for themselves, because living a life for Christ is very demanding and at times very tough. Not to mention how those with alternative lifestyles look upon and treat those who choose to follow Christ.Some choose to take the "easy" way. And its very tempting at times. I pray none of us fall into that temptation.Spencer Truly living a life for Christ is not very demanding, it is the only life without fear; "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matthew 11:29-30.I think it is only demanding when we are still in the great and spacious building but imagine ourselves to be at the tree of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 You may be right Behunin, but did you grow up in the church? Try taking all this in as a convert, coming from a very alternative lifestyle. I agree with you, just take a look through another window for a minute. Not saying they're right, but I can understand. Am I making sense? feel like im rambling. Im a convert, but to me this gospel makes sense. A whole lot of sense, and others, to me, try to make it more complicated than it really is. Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I see both of your insights and the are awesome. Consider the fact that being a follower of Christ means...just that...leaving everything else and committing everything you are, have, ever will have...ever would have been....and following the Lord. It requires an eternal perspective that only comes through the Spirit and rebirth. Finding this path is the hard thing...after you are really on it through rebirth...the yoke is easy and the burden is light because you are literally filled with Charity/pure love of Christ. This Charity is power, strength, enduring....It is Christ carrying us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 3 2004, 11:40 AM You may be right Behunin, but did you grow up in the church?Try taking all this in as a convert, coming from a very alternative lifestyle.I agree with you, just take a look through another window for a minute. Not saying they're right, but I can understand. Am I making sense? feel like im rambling.Im a convert, but to me this gospel makes sense. A whole lot of sense, and others, to me, try to make it more complicated than it really is.Spencer I have been a member of the LDS church since I was 8 years old. Now for a confession. My husband is a convert of almost 9 years. I asked him to help me answer your post! My husband is a scriptorian of sorts, and I rely on him occasionally for help.At some point in most religions, including LDS, conversion may happen. So we are all converts at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 True, but the lifestyles of our parents instill right and wrong in us and make us a lot of who we are, which may cause a problem for some. Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 What I think is interesting is we all act like nephi at sometimes and then are hard headed like lamen and lemuel. Why can't we be more like nephi, instead of tracking back and forth? I personally think each person has to experience different things to strengthen there faith, one person might need a whisper and another person might need a tidal wave. It all depends how we listen to the lord....We still have mant nephi's and lamen and lemuels in this world and always will Just my thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 3 2004, 12:25 PM True, but the lifestyles of our parents instill right and wrong in us and make us a lot of who we are, which may cause a problem for some.Spencer Yes, most definitely. Now the nature v nurture debate............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by LaurelTree@Mar 3 2004, 12:36 PM What I think is interesting is we all act like nephi at sometimes and then are hard headed like lamen and lemuel. Why can't we be more like nephi, instead of tracking back and forth?I personally think each person has to experience different things to strengthen there faith, one person might need a whisper and another person might need a tidal wave. It all depends how we listen to the lord....We still have mant nephi's and lamen and lemuels in this world and always willJust my thought... Your thoughts are good! I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by LaurelTree@Mar 3 2004, 11:36 AM What I think is interesting is we all act like nephi at sometimes and then are hard headed like lamen and lemuel. Why can't we be more like nephi, instead of tracking back and forth?I personally think each person has to experience different things to strengthen there faith, one person might need a whisper and another person might need a tidal wave. It all depends how we listen to the lord....We still have mant nephi's and lamen and lemuels in this world and always willJust my thought... Amen! LT, good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porterrockwell Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Spencer@Mar 3 2004, 11:40 AM others, to me, try to make it more complicated than it really is.Spencer Ding, ding, ding. "You are correct, sir!"(anyone care to name what comedy skit that quotation is from?). To distort the truth most will try to get you to "chase your own tail" in a discussion. It is very amusing. Of course then when you don't answer they think you are evading their questioning. 2nd Nephi 27-29 has a lot of good scripture to help keep that trap setting by the adversary in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Franken@Mar 3 2004, 12:02 AM Seriously, these two never cease to amaze me. How thick headed can you get? Just from reading in march madness and talking about it in seminary, these two have been forgiven so many times but yet still rebel against the lord. Even seeing an Angel didn't totally convince them.I think it's cool how like whenever they do something to Nephi and they realize they are wrong and ask for forgiveness, Nephi is just like "I forgive you" completely instantly. A second thought doesn't even cross his mind. That's really cool to me considering all the stuff that they did to him, I mean they threatened to kill him and he still loves them as much as he did before, Nephi is awesome! Anyone got any particular comments? Laman and Lemuel don't behave like normal first and second borns. I think there was more to their behavior than just bad choices. I think they had to have been severely learning disabled. I actually know a guy who who's impulsive behavior reminds me of these guys. He had a beautiful, perfect wife who was everything any man could have wanted and he still cheated on her because he couldn't control himself. He threw away everything good in his life because he couldn't control his impulses. I think this is what Laman and Lemuel must have been like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Well, remember that these knuckleheads came from a society that emphasized the whole birth-order thing. So their younger brother giving orders REALLY rubbed them the wrong way. They took hard-headedness to new levels though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by Outshined@Mar 3 2004, 02:18 PM Well, remember that these knuckleheads came from a society that emphasized the whole birth-order thing. So their younger brother giving orders REALLY rubbed them the wrong way. They took hard-headedness to new levels though...... That's true. In Biblical stories, the older sons were already disinherited BEFORE the younger one started ordering them around. I wonder why Lehi let Nephi take the leadership position if he hadn't taken the birthright away from the older boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behunin Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by curvette+Mar 3 2004, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 3 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Franken@Mar 3 2004, 12:02 AM Seriously, these two never cease to amaze me. How thick headed can you get? Just from reading in march madness and talking about it in seminary, these two have been forgiven so many times but yet still rebel against the lord. Even seeing an Angel didn't totally convince them.I think it's cool how like whenever they do something to Nephi and they realize they are wrong and ask for forgiveness, Nephi is just like "I forgive you" completely instantly. A second thought doesn't even cross his mind. That's really cool to me considering all the stuff that they did to him, I mean they threatened to kill him and he still loves them as much as he did before, Nephi is awesome! Anyone got any particular comments? Laman and Lemuel don't behave like normal first and second borns. I think there was more to their behavior than just bad choices. I think they had to have been severely learning disabled. I actually know a guy who who's impulsive behavior reminds me of these guys. He had a beautiful, perfect wife who was everything any man could have wanted and he still cheated on her because he couldn't control himself. He threw away everything good in his life because he couldn't control his impulses. I think this is what Laman and Lemuel must have been like. This is a great analogy! It is very sad that it actually had to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 True; Laman and Lemuel come across as very emotionally immature men. I assume Lehi let events play out like they did because God wanted it that way. I'd pretty much do what He told me, too..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 I suppose because of my own skepticism, I can relate to Laman and Lemuel. On the other hand, like "Doubting Thomas", they were being offered proof to base their faith on. I'm still bitter about the fact that Thomas, Laman, Lemuel, etc. all got proof to base their faith on...even if Laman and Lemuel ignored that proof. They were given proof...basically an opportunity to gain faith very easily and get a free ride to Heaven...and here I am...I have to sit here and listen to people tell me I don't need proof...that I should just have faith WITHOUT proof. No fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Mar 5 2004, 11:07 AM I suppose because of my own skepticism, I can relate to Laman and Lemuel. On the other hand, like "Doubting Thomas", they were being offered proof to base their faith on.I'm still bitter about the fact that Thomas, Laman, Lemuel, etc. all got proof to base their faith on...even if Laman and Lemuel ignored that proof.They were given proof...basically an opportunity to gain faith very easily and get a free ride to Heaven...and here I am...I have to sit here and listen to people tell me I don't need proof...that I should just have faith WITHOUT proof.No fair! I think similar things, too, Tao -- but then I remember the idea that where much is given, much is expected, and that if I, like my namesake Thomas, were invited to touch the Savior's wounds as proof, then I might be held accountable, and have to be as committed as Thomas was. Which commitment, I believe tradition says, extended to getting himself speared preaching somewhere in India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Wasn't there anyone who witnessed a miracle (proof to back up their faith) that did not have such responsibilities such as Thomas? People who were healed by Christ, for example? Other people who witnessed the Ressurection? All the Israelites who followed Moses out of Egypt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Mar 5 2004, 02:16 PM Wasn't there anyone who witnessed a miracle (proof to back up their faith) that did not have such responsibilities such as Thomas?People who were healed by Christ, for example?Other people who witnessed the Ressurection?All the Israelites who followed Moses out of Egypt? Oh really Tao! The Israelites had to eat nothing but Manna (oily cottonballs) for forty years! I think that's a pretty big price to pay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 I thought the manna was a blessing? Weren't they starving before the manna appeared? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Mar 5 2004, 02:32 PM I thought the manna was a blessing? Weren't they starving before the manna appeared? I'm sure they thought of it as a blessing at first. But after forty years, I suspect they hated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Well even we we get increased responsibilities in return for being given "proof" for the existence of God in the form of miracles...why don't all skeptics get that opportunity...maybe they would accept the responsibility? Maybe some would be willing to take on those responsibilities? Of course, if that responsibility includes suffering for the rest of my life, I'll stick with good old fashioned "hope" instead of faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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