Spencer

You're right, my apologies my emotions got the better of me.

I'm sure that will all happen, not necessarily in that order however.

A statement full of love indeed.

KALW : Prop 8 overturned

So lets not call it a right, tho I believe it should be, marriage is not in the constitution period. Thus move on. You believe you should have more, benefits we will call them, then that of someone of a different sexual orientation.

I'm not the only one who has avoided questions in this thread. On May 15, 2008, the Supreme Court of California issued a decision in which it effectively legalized same-sex marriage in California, holding that California's existing opposite-sex definition of marriage violated the constitutional rights of same-sex couples

Man and woman cannot marry in California?

Are you asserting that marriage of heterosexuals is not a right?

California legalized same-sex marriage on June 16, 2008, (Right given) but on November 4, 2008, voters passed a constitutional amendment to restrict marriage to members of the opposite sex. (Right taken away)

Just one last question then I will respectfully bow out of this conversation. So you agree that it is ok to take rights away from citizens in order to better fit the views of a church?

I don't believe I have been negative. I apologize if I have offended you.

And why is that?

All men are created equal.

You never answered the question as to if you had watched the film or not? My point was not that it was given as tithing, but it is very possible that it was collected by the same means. Tithing is what your'e required but there are other boxes on the tithing sheets that request extra money for missionary work, etc. I cannot prove to you that all the money was donated through this vessel, just as you cannot prove to me it wasn't. But it would be silly not to logically deduce that a vast majority was donated through these means as it is how members are used to giving money.

Why should everyone be allowed to marry? Because its morally responsible and correct. Its a shame you don't know.

And I disagree that the church has no way of knowing how much is being donated. Every time tithing is paid, a slip is filled out and placed in a envelope with the money. Not to mention there are annual "tithing settlements" to make sure you are giving at least 10%. The money was given directly to the church and the church then dispersed the funds to their front organizations. You're right marriage is a matter of morality. So is equal rights among all "Gods" children. Everyone should be allowed to marry.

I disagree, have you seen the film? This money went directly for the fight against prop 8. And this is far more of an issue of just teaching morality. Active funding and advertising for a change in governmental law is not teaching morality. That's forcing an opinion on people. Tell me what I need to know about tax exempt status that I am missing. I know that using a 3rd party organization allows them to remain exempt as long as they are subject to independent auditing.

Separation of church and state needs to be clear. The misreporting of 190k was their 2nd attempt to get it right... I mean just one family from Sacramento alone gave 50k! There is no way 190k is accurate.

What did you all think of this documentary? 8: The Mormon Proposition There is a trailer at the top of the site if you're interested.

I have no idea who that is in my profile pic either...

Its been a REAL long time since ive been here, anyone still around from the old days?

Happy Birthday Heather!

See I tend to dis-agree, while I believe we chould have general chat which i thought thats what this forum was for? I do believe some things do not need to be talked about here, other wise how are we any different from any other message board? You think the youth who come to this site are only going to pay attention to one board? no, they will read it all. of course they could find it elsewhere, but I do not feel as rsponsible for the content elsewhere as i do here. Maybe I need to go ahead an relieve myself from my duties here. LT has left for similiar reasons as well. Spencer

← First of all, Im flattered that this poster (Strawberry Fields?) was so kind as to use my name twice! Secondly, Im not an anti-mormon. As my good friend Snow said, Im "critical". That's not a sin. Lastly, I've not discussed any temple ordinances. I've referred to those ordinances, but I've not used any terminology that is not freely available to all through pro-mormon channels. Finally, I disagree that this is not a "good" LDS site. LDS sites like LDSTALK are the perfect place for investigators and members alike. Here's why: To pretend that an Investigator or Member will never encounter "anti" material is pretty unrealistic in today's world. That said, where better to learn about these issues than a place where honest, intelligent Mormons and Non-Mormons can discuss and offer views to help that person make an informed decision on where they stand on said issue? Much better than trashy places like "Saints Alive", "Utah Lighthouse Ministry", "FAIR", or "Shields" where the bias and obvious falsehoods are pushed to the extreme. I say, come to LDSTALK. Ask your questions and hear answers from all sides. Then and only then can you truly make an informed decision. ← Jason, Before you start the guessing game why dont you read the first line of my post. I believe Strawberry Fields as long past the status of "observer" Spencer