A Second Chance.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

That was an intresting take on it...

I need to think on that...

I think the first anwser makes more sense to me though..

I'm not disagreeing that they [the demons] wouldn't have known Him [Jesus] from heaven...I'm just saying that's why they brought it up...

Josh B)

possibly!

That is a very good theory!

I never thought about that before!!

:) I want to know someday!

[JoshuaFKon]

I like Gods plan better...

.... so did you, Josh...

Did I really? I must have forgotten....strange my opinion would have changed so drastically....

josh B)

[Princess3dward]

I like Gods plan better...

.... so did you, Josh...

Did I really? I must have forgotten....strange my opinion would have changed so drastically....

josh B)

I was thinking the same thing.....

[BenRaines]

Sorry Dr. T to make such a huge leap. Everything leading up to the spirits in the man possessed was in regards to the Council in Heaven or where the plans were laid out. One to give us the right to chose and the other to compel us to return.

My reference to the swine and evil spirits was just a mention of what or where those spirits were that were cast out for rebellion.

Ben Raines

[Dr T]

This counsel in the heavens, was that a counsel of Gods? If so, how did Jesus and Satan attend? That is the part I'm getting confused about.

Thanks,

Dr T

[BenRaines]

I am not familiar with it being called a council of Gods. That may be a term that someone has used but I don't. Known to me as a Council in Heaven. Believe that we were all in attendance as spirits. All had a say in which plan we chose.

All who have been born on this earth were those that chose or voted for God's plan and not Satan's. They kept their first estate. Someone has said in this thread that they think that is something they would remember if it was so important. If they were able to remember then they would not have to live by faith.

Ben Raines

[Dr T]

Thanks again, Ben. We all chose that plan. Why did GOD ask His children for suggestions?

Just curious-doesnt seem to fit with a supreme all-powerful deity.

Thanks,

Dr./ T

[Princess3dward]

Because he is fair.

[Dr T]

I respect the concept of being fair but "Fairness" is not equivalent to “sovereign”.

Just my opinion,

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

Why can't he have both?

[Dr T]

You tell me Des.

[Guest MrsS]

Dr. T - here is an excerpt from Mormon Doctrine, that might explain it a bit better.

The Council in Heaven by Bruce R. McConkie

<<snip>> Ordinarily, perhaps, when the saints speak of the council in heaven, they have in mind the solemn session (at which, apparently, all of the pre-existent hosts were present) when the Father made formal announcement of his plan of redemption and salvation. It was then explained that his spirit children would go down to earth, gain bodies of flesh and blood, be tried and tested in all things, and have opportunity by obedience to come back again to the Eternal Presence. It was then explained that one of the spirit children of the Father would be chosen to be the Redeemer and work out the infinite and eternal atonement. And it was then that the Father sent forth the call which said in substance and effect: Whom shall I send to be my Son in mortality? Who will go down, be born with life in himself, and work out the great atoning sacrifice by which immortality will come to all men and eternal life be assured to the obedient?

Two mighty spirits answered the call and volunteered their services. Christ said, in effect: Here am I send me; I will be thy Son; I will follow thy plan’ and “thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. But Lucifer sought to amend the plan of the Father and to change the proffered terms of salvation. “Behold, here am I, send me,” he said, “I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.” (Moses 4:1-4) When the Father said, “I will send the first”, then Lucifer was angry and kept not his first estate, rebelled and he and one-third of the hosts of heaven were cast out down to earth to become the devil and his angels. (Abra. 3:25-28; D&C 29:36-40)

As for why did God ask His children - here is another excerpt from the same book that might explain more fully and magnify what Desire' said about Fairness.

Agency:

Agency is the ability and freedom to choose good or evil. It is an eternal principle which has existed with God from all eternity. The spirit offspring of the Father had agency in pre-existence and were thereby empowered to follow Christ or Lucifer according to their choice. (Moses 4:3; D&C 29:36-37) It is by virtue of the exercise of agency in this life that men are enabled to undergo the testing which is an essential part of mortality. (Moses 3:17; 4:3; 7:32; Abra. 3:25-28) . . .

. . .Agency is given to man as an essential part of the great plan of redemption. As with all things appertaining to this plan, it is based on the atoning sacrifice of Christ. As Lehi expressed it: And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given. Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself. (2 Ne.2:26-27 also 2Ne. 10:23; Alma 13:3; Hela. 14:31)

Dr.T: I respect the concept of being fair but "Fairness" is not equivalent to “sovereign”.

Perhaps this is so of a worldly king, not so with our Heavenly Father.

[Dr T]

Thank you for that post Mrs.S. Maybe I did speak too soon about those terms. I would like to think about them some more before I come to the conclusion that they do not necessarily go together. Thank you for making me think. That is why I'm here. :)

Dr. T

[LionHeart]

I once worked for a man in a warehouse. I was assigned to operate the freezer. Whenever something would go wrong with it, he would ask my opinion on what we should do to fix it. I was new at the freezer job, and he was the one who actually built this particular system. I wondered why he was asking me. I didn't know nearly as much as he did. Later, I found out that he had attended some leadership seminars and that this is something they teach people there. It makes people feel needed and that; and it shows that you respect their opinion.

Such is our Father in Heaven. He cares for our well being; He recognizes our need to feel needed.

L.H.

[BenRaines]

I don't recall being allowed to express opinions on the plans it was an exercise in agency to chose which plan had been proposed.

I don't think we were offered the opportunity to add any options to the plan.

Ben Raines

[john doe]

Thanks again, Ben. We all chose that plan. Why did GOD ask His children for suggestions?

Just curious-doesnt seem to fit with a supreme all-powerful deity.

Thanks,

Dr./ T

I'm not so sure He did. My understanding is that God presented His plan with Jesus, the firstborn spirit, as the Savior, and Jesus said any glory would go to God the Father. Satan, being jealous, wanted the glory, so he presented his plan which would force all to follow God, thus eliminating free will, and he would receive the glory for this to come about. Satan's plan was rejected by God the Father. God knew that free will, or agency if you will, is one of the most important gifts we have, and He refused to take it away from us. He knew that for us to grow and really be strong, we would need to be able to make decisions for ourselves.

[Dr T]

Thanks for your thoughts, John Doe. :)

[boyando]

<div class='quotemain'>

As I believe it to be it was the following. Plan was that we would all have an opportunity to come to earth and be tried and tested. See if we would believe, have faith, do what was asked of us to be worthy to return to our loving Heavenly Father. God knew that there would be losses. He provided a Savior, Jesus Christ, to atone for the sins of all mankind. Still knowing that there were those who would reject even Jesus Christ.

Satan's alternative plan was that all would come to earth. Would be compelled to be good and not one soul would be lost. More importantly in the first plan glory be to God. In Satan's plan he would receive the recognition and glory. Pride was his downfall.

Upon rejecting of Satan's plan he in his anger rejected God's plan and was cast out along with those who followed him. They are those spirits that can and have possessed the bodies of come of God's children born on the earth if they, the humans on the earth, allow it.

I don't mean to be sacrilegious, or offend anyone...but Satan's plan makes more sense to me...

Especially since Jesus said "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

I mean...to condem billions to eternal torture for, at best, a sense of "free will"...

Just a thought....

Josh B)

If we send a man to prison, he is made to do right. Prison for every one doesn't sound so good to me.

If you and I thought that satan's plan would have been better, we would have voted for that and be hanging with satan right now.

I'm just saying

[LionHeart]

This counsel in the heavens, was that a counsel of Gods? If so, how did Jesus and Satan attend? That is the part I'm getting confused about.

Thanks,

Dr T

This council of heaven was attended by God and many of His children known as "the Noble and Great Ones" among which was Jesus Christ and Lucifer. It was here that Jesus was chosen to be our Saviour; at which point He was promoted to God over this world. Lucifer rejected the plan chosen by God the Father and led away one third of Gods children; the remainder of which chose to follow our Father's plan and showed it by their degree of faithfulness in keeping their first estate.

After this council, God the Father, along with Jesus Christ and the other noble and great ones, organized this world.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

L.H.

[Nicole]

please see Gospel Principles

JESUS CHRIST, OUR CHOSEN

LEADER AND SAVIOR

C h a p t e r 3

A Savior and Leader Was Needed

When the plan for our salvation was presented to us in the spirit world, we were so happy that we shouted for joy (see Job 38:7).

We understood that we would have to leave our heavenly home for a time. We would not live in the presence of our heavenly parents. While we were away from them, all of us would sin and some of us would lose our way. Our Heavenly Father knew and loved each one of us. He knew we would need help, so he planned a way to help us.

We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).

Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).

Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor" (Moses 4:1). Satan wanted to force us all to do his will. Under his plan, we would not be allowed to choose. He would take away the freedom of choice that our Father had given us. Satan wanted to have all the honor for our salvation.

Jesus Christ Became Our Chosen Leader and Savior

After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first" (Abraham 3:27).

Jesus Christ was chosen and ordained to be our Savior. Many scriptures tell about this. One scripture tells us that long before Jesus was born, he appeared to the brother of Jared, a Book of Mormon prophet, and said: "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. . . . In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name" (Ether 3:14).

When Jesus lived on earth, he taught: "I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. . . . And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:38, 40).

The War in Heaven

Because our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Savior, Satan became angry and rebelled. There was war in heaven. Satan and his followers fought against Jesus and his followers.

In this great rebellion, Satan and all the spirits who followed him were sent away from the presence of God and cast down from heaven. One-third of the spirits in heaven were punished for following Satan: they were denied the right to receive mortal bodies.

Because we are here on earth and have mortal bodies, we know that we chose to follow Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Satan and his followers are also on the earth, but as spirits. They have not forgotten who we are, and they are around us daily, tempting us and enticing us to do things that are not pleasing to our Heavenly Father. In our premortal life, we chose the right. We must continue to choose the right here on earth. Only by following Jesus can we return to our heavenly home.

We Have the Savior's Teachings to Follow

From the beginning, Jesus Christ has revealed the gospel, which tells us what we must do to return to our Heavenly Father. At the appointed time he came to earth himself. He taught the plan of salvation and exaltation by his word and by the way he lived. He established his Church and his priesthood on the earth. He took our sins upon himself.

By following the Lord's teachings, we can return to live with him and our heavenly parents in the celestial kingdom. He was chosen to be our Savior when we all attended the great council with our heavenly parents. When he became our Savior, he did his part to help us return to our heavenly home. It is now up to each of us to do our part and become worthy of exaltation.

Bear testimony of the Savior.

Additional Scriptures

Moses 4:1-4 (Council in Heaven)

Abraham 3:22-28 (Council in Heaven)

D&C 76:24-29 (War in Heaven)

Revelation 12:7-9 (War in Heaven)

Isaiah 14:12-15 (why Lucifer was cast out)

2 Nephi 9:6-26; 3 Nephi 27:13-20 (purpose of the Atonement)

When we lived with our Heavenly Father, he explained a plan for our progression. We could become like him, an exalted being. The plan required that we be separated from him and come to earth. This separation was necessary to prove whether we would obey our Father's commandments even though we were no longer in his presence. The plan provided that when earth life ended, we would be judged and rewarded according to the degree of our faith and obedience. We would then be assigned to the place for which we had prepared.

Jesus taught, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2). From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was "caught up to the third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81). We also learn that there are three heavens or degrees within the celestial kingdom (see D&C 131:1).

What Is Exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give his children (see D&C 14:7).

Blessings of Exaltation

Our Heavenly Father is perfect. However, he is not jealous of his wisdom and perfection. He glories in the fact that it is possible for his children to become like him. He has said, "This is my work and my glory--to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, "All things are theirs" (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).

They will become gods.

They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

They will receive a fulness of joy.

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

Requirements for Exaltation

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32-34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, "In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and understanding of the truth; and 'live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God' " (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey his commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We must receive the temple endowment.

We must be married for time and eternity.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to--

Love and worship God.

Love our neighbor.

Repent of our wrongdoings.

Live the law of chastity.

Pay honest tithes and offerings.

Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord.

Speak the truth always.

Obey the Word of Wisdom.

Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.

Keep the Sabbath day holy.

Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.

Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.

Have family and individual prayers every day.

Honor our parents.

Teach the gospel to others by word and example.

Study the scriptures.

Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow his direction in our individual lives.

After We Have Endured to the End

What happens when we have endured to the end in faithful discipleship to Christ? The Lord has said, "If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God" (D&C 14:7). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, "If we will continue in God; that is, keep his commandments, worship him and live his truth; then the time will come when we shall be bathed in the fulness of truth, which shall grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348).

This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46).

Our Heavenly Father knows our trials, our weaknesses, and our sins. He has compassion and mercy on us. He wants us to succeed even as he did.

Imagine what joy each of us will have when we return to our Heavenly Father if we can say: "Father, I did what you wanted me to do. I have been faithful and have kept your commandments. I am happy to be home again." Then we will hear him say, "Well done; . . . thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord" (Matthew 25:23).

Describe how you might feel to hear the Savior's words in Matthew 25:23.

Additional Scriptures

D&C 132:3-4, 16-26, 37 (pertaining to exaltation)

D&C 131:1-4 (eternal marriage is key to exaltation)

D&C 76:59-70 (blessings of celestial glory explained)

THE POSTMORTAL

SPIRIT WORLD

C h a p t e r 4 5

Heavenly Father prepared a plan for our salvation. As part of this plan, he sent us from his presence to live on earth and receive mortal bodies of flesh and blood. Eventually our mortal bodies will die, and our spirits will go to the spirit world. The spirit world is a place of waiting, working, learning, and resting from care and sorrow. Our spirits will live there until we are ready for our resurrection. Then our mortal bodies will once more unite with our spirits, and we will receive the degree of glory we have prepared for (see chapter 46, "The Last Judgment").

Many of us have wondered what the spirit world is like. The scriptures and latter-day prophets have given us information about the spirit world.

Where Is the Spirit World?

In a funeral sermon, Joseph Smith declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died "are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and are often pained therewith" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 326). Other latter-day prophets have made similar statements. President Ezra Taft Benson said: "Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us" (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, p. 18; or Ensign, June 1971, p. 33). President Brigham Young said: "Where is the spirit world? It is right here" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 376).

What Are Spirits Like?

Spirit beings have the same bodily form as mortals except that the spirit body is in perfect form (see Ether 3:16). Spirits carry with them from earth their attitudes of devotion or antagonism toward things of righteousness (see Alma 34:34). They have the same appetites and desires that they had when they lived on earth. All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after death, even if they die as infants or children (see Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 455).

Read Ether 3:16. What do spirit bodies look like?

Divisions in the Spirit World

The prophet Alma in the Book of Mormon taught about two divisions or states in the spirit world:

"The spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

"And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil--for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house--and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

"Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection" (Alma 40:12-14).

The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28-30), but the spirits may progress from one level to another as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them (see Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 762).

Paradise

According to the prophet Alma, the righteous spirits rest from earthly care and sorrow. Nevertheless, they are occupied in doing the work of the Lord. President Joseph F. Smith saw in a vision that immediately after Jesus Christ was crucified, he visited the righteous in the spirit world. He appointed messengers, gave them power and authority, and commissioned them to "carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men" (D&C 138:30).

The Church is organized in the spirit world, with each prophet standing at the head of his own generation (see Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:209). Priesthood holders continue their responsibilities in the spirit world. President Wilford Woodruff taught: "The same Priesthood exists on the other side of the veil. . . . Every Apostle, every Seventy, every Elder, etc., who has died in the faith as soon as he passes to the other side of the veil, enters into the work of the ministry" (in Journal of Discourses, 22:333-34).

Family relationships are also important. President Jedediah M. Grant, a counselor to Brigham Young, saw the spirit world and described to Heber C. Kimball the organization that exists there: "He said that the people he there saw were organized in family capacities. . . . He said, 'When I looked at families, there was a deficiency in some, . . . for I saw families that would not be permitted to come and dwell together, because they had not honored their calling here' " (Heber C. Kimball, in Journal of Discourses, 4:135-36).

Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18-20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may prepare themselves to leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (D&C 19:16-18). After suffering in full for their sins, they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom.

The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever. Even the spirits who have committed the greatest sins will have suffered sufficiently by the end of the Millennium (see Acts 2:25-27). They will then be resurrected.

Additional Scriptures

1 Peter 4:6 (gospel preached to the dead)

Moses 7:37-39 (spirit prison prepared for the wicked)

D&C 76 (revelation about the three kingdoms of glory)

Luke 16:19-31 (fate of beggar and rich man in the spirit world)

FREEDOM

TO CHOOSE

C h a p t e r 4

"Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee" (Moses 3:17).

God has told us through his prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. We may choose liberty and eternal life by following Jesus Christ. We are also free to choose captivity and death by following Satan. (See 2 Nephi 2:27.) The right to choose between good and evil is called agency.

Agency Is an Eternal Principle

In the premortal life we were free agents. That means we had power to act for ourselves (see D&C 93:29-30). One purpose of earth life is to show what choices we will make (see 2 Nephi 2:15-16). If we were forced to choose the right, we would not be able to show what we would choose for ourselves. Also, we are happier doing things when we have made our own choices.

Agency may have been one of the first issues to arise in the premortal council in heaven. It was one of the main causes of the conflict between the followers of Christ and the followers of Satan. Satan said he would bring all of us back to our Father's presence, but he would have taken away our agency. When his offer was rejected, he rebelled and was cast out of heaven with his followers (see D&C 29:36-37).

Discussion

Ask class members to compare the feelings the words force and choice bring to mind.

Agency Is a Necessary Part of the Plan of Salvation

Agency makes our life on earth a period of testing. When planning the mortal creation of his children, God said, "We will prove [test] them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them" (Abraham 3:25). Without the gift of agency, we would have been unable to show our Heavenly Father whether we would do all that he commanded us. Because we are able to choose, we are responsible for our actions (see Helaman 14:30-31).

When we choose to live according to God's plan for us, our agency is strengthened. Right choices increase our power to make more right choices.

As we obey each of our Father's commandments, we grow in wisdom and strength of character. Our faith increases. We find it easier to make right choices.

We began to make choices as spirit children in our Heavenly Father's presence. Our choices there made us worthy to come to earth. Our Heavenly Father wants us to grow in faith, power, knowledge, wisdom, and all other good things. If we keep his commandments and make right choices, we will learn and understand. We will become like him. (See D&C 93:28.)

Discussion

Read Moses 3:17 and Joshua 24:14-15. What choices have you made this week? Did these choices bring you closer to the Lord?

Why is agency necessary?

Read 2 Nephi 28:30. How does making right choices help us make more right choices?

Agency Requires That There Be a Choice

We cannot choose unless the opposites of good and evil are placed before us. Lehi, a great Book of Mormon prophet, told his son that in order to bring about the eternal purposes of God, there must be "an opposition in all things. If not so, . . . righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad" (2 Nephi 2:11).

God allows Satan to oppose the good. God said of Satan:

"I caused that he should be cast down;

"And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice" (Moses 4:3-4).

Satan does all he can to destroy God's work. He seeks "the misery of all mankind, . . . for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself" (2 Nephi 2:18, 27). He does not love us. He does not want any good thing for us. He does not want us to be happy. He wants to make us his slaves. He uses many disguises to capture us.

When we follow the temptations of Satan, we limit our choices. The following example suggests how this works. Imagine seeing a sign on the seashore that reads: "Danger--whirlpool. No swimming allowed here." We might think that is a restriction. But is it? We still have many choices. We are free to swim somewhere else. We are free to walk along the beach and pick up seashells. We are free to watch the sunset. We are free to go home. We are also free to ignore the sign and swim in the dangerous place. But once the whirlpool has us in its grasp and we are pulled under, we have very few choices. We can try to escape, or we can call for help, but we may drown.

Even though we are free to choose our course of action, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. The consequences, whether good or bad, follow as a natural result of any choice we make (see Revelation 22:12). If we touch a hot flame, for example, we are burned.

Heavenly Father has told us how to escape the captivity of Satan. We must watch and pray always, asking God to help us withstand the temptations of Satan (see 3 Nephi 18:15). Our Heavenly Father will not allow us to be tempted beyond our power to resist (see 1 Corinthians 10:13).

God's commandments direct us away from danger and toward eternal life. By choosing wisely, we will gain exaltation, progress eternally, and enjoy perfect happiness (see 2 Nephi 2:27-28).

Discussion

Place a treat within the reach of someone. Loosely wrap a cord around him, binding his arms to his body. Ask him if he can reach the treat. Tighten the cord so the person is bound. Explain that sin and ignorance also interfere with agency and prevent us from receiving blessings from God. Discuss how repentance and righteous living free us from the bondage of sin.

Why is opposition necessary? See 2 Nephi 2:15-16.

Read 2 Nephi 2:28. How can you choose eternal life?

Additional Scriptures

Moses 7:32 (freedom of choice)

Abraham 3:24-25 (earth life a test)

Moroni 7:5-6 (works judged)

2 Nephi 2:11-16 (opposition is necessary)

Moroni 7:12-17 (choosing good and evil)

2 Peter 2:19; John 8:34 (sin is bondage)

2 Nephi 2:28-29; Alma 40:12-13 (reward according to works)

[Nicole]

please see Doctrine and covenants student manual section 76 page 163-166

or if you dont have the book then u can read it online at http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/d_cInst.../start_here.pdf

D&C 76:50. What Is the Resurrection of the Just?

There are two major resurrections: the resurrection

of the just and the resurrection of the unjust.

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote about the

resurrection of the just:

“In modern revelation given to the Church, the

Lord has made known more in relation to this

glorious event. There shall be at least two classes

which shall have the privilege of the resurrection at

this time: ‘First, those who shall dwell in the presence

Joseph Fielding Smith spoke about the resurrection of the just.

of God and his Christ forever and ever’; and second,

honorable men, those who belong to the terrestrial

kingdom as well as those of the celestial kingdom.

“At the time of the coming of Christ, ‘They who

have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their

graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught

up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven.

They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall

descend with him first, and they who are first caught

up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the

sounding of the trump of the angel of God.’ These

are the just, ‘whose names are written in heaven,

where God and Christ are the judge of all. These are

they who are just men made perfect through Jesus

the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out

this perfect atonement through the shedding of his

own blood.’

“Following this great event, and after the Lord

and the righteous who are caught up to meet him

have descended upon the earth, there will come to

pass another resurrection. This may be considered

as a part of the first, although it comes later. In this

resurrection will come forth those of terrestrial order,

who were not worthy to be caught up to meet him,

but who are worthy to come forth to enjoy the

millennial reign.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:296.)

This first resurrection will extend into the

Millennium and include all those worthy of the

celestial kingdom who live and die during the

thousand years.

D&C 76:53. What Does It Mean to Be Sealed by

the Holy Spirit of Promise?

Elder Bruce R. McConkie defined the Holy Spirit of

Promise as “the Holy Spirit promised the saints, or in

other words the Holy Ghost. This name-title is used

in connection with the sealing and ratifying power of

the Holy Ghost, that is, the power given him to ratify

and approve the righteous acts of men so that those

acts will be binding on earth and in heaven. ‘All

covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows,

performances, connections, associations, or

expectations,’ must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of

Promise, if they are to have ‘efficacy, virtue, or force

in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all

contracts that are not made unto this end have an end

when men are dead.’ (D&C 132:7.)

“To seal is to ratify, to justify, or to approve. Thus

an act which is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise

is one which is ratified by the Holy Ghost; it is one

which is approved by the Lord; and the person who

has taken the obligation upon himself is justified by

the Spirit in the thing he has done. The ratifying seal

of approval is put upon an act only if those entering

the contract are worthy as a result of personal

righteousness to receive the divine approbation. They

‘are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the

Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and

true.’ (D. & C. 76:53.) If they are not just and true and

worthy the ratifying seal is withheld.” (Mormon

Doctrine, pp. 361–62; see also Notes and Commentary

on D&C 132:7.)

D&C 76:54. What Is the Church of the

Firstborn?

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom

are those who are members of the Church of the

Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the

commandments of the Lord. . . .

“The Lord has made it possible for us to become

members of the Church of the Firstborn, by receiving

the blessings of the house of the Lord and

overcoming all things. Thus we become heirs,

‘priests, and kings, who have received of his fulness,

and of his glory,’ who shall ‘dwell in the presence of

God and his Christ forever and ever,’ with full

exaltation.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:41–42.)

Certain apostates have taken this sacred name

upon themselves, blasphemously claiming to have

met all of these requirements, when they are in fact

in a state of wickedness and rebellion.

D&C 76:72–74. Do Those Who Receive the

Gospel in the Spirit World Inherit the

Terrestrial Kingdom?

Those who hear the gospel in mortality and do not

accept it but lead otherwise honorable lives will

inherit the terrestrial kingdom. Those who do not

have the opportunity to hear the gospel in mortality

but accept it in the spirit world can inherit the

celestial kingdom.

Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon’s vision of the three degrees of

glory

Joseph Smith learned through another revelation

that “all who have died without a knowledge of this

gospel, who would have received it if they had been

permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial

kingdom of God” (D&C 137:7). Those “who received

not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh” (D&C 76:74)

are those who heard the gospel in mortality and

rejected it. If they “afterwards received it” (v. 74), that

is, in the spirit world, they will go to the terrestrial

kingdom.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught the foolishness

of believing that a person can reject the gospel in this

life, accept it in the next, and still inherit celestial

glory. “This life is the time and day of our probation.

After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for

eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein

there can be no labor performed.

“For those who do not have an opportunity to

believe and obey the holy word in this life, the first

chance to gain salvation will come in the spirit world.

If those who hear the word for the first time in the

realms ahead are the kind of people who would have

accepted the gospel here, had the opportunity been

afforded them, they will accept it there. . . .

“. . . Those who reject the gospel in this life and

then receive it in the spirit world go not to the

celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom.” (“The Seven

Deadly Heresies,” in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo:

Brigham Young University Press, 1981], pp. 77–78.)

Elder Theodore M. Burton said: “There are many

in this world who lived and died without ever

having an opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus

Christ. We know that there are many men and

women who die unbaptized, because some teacher,

missionary, or leader who should have taught them

was so poorly trained, so lacking in faith, and so

unprepared to bear personal witness of Jesus Christ

that the hearer never understood the message as he

should have done. Should such people be damned

forever for lack of proper instruction, because of an

accident of birth, or because of the inadequacies of

others? I say: ‘No!’ God is a God of justice and love

and mercy. Every man is entitled to a just chance to

know and accept Jesus Christ or to reject him if he

feels the price of acceptance is too high” (in

Conference Report, Apr. 1964, 72).

D&C 76:79. What Does It Mean to Be Valiant in

the Testimony of the Savior?

Elder Bruce R. McConkie asked:

“What does it mean to be valiant in the testimony

of Jesus?

“It is to be courageous and bold; to use all our

strength, energy, and ability in the warfare with the

world; to fight the good fight of faith. . . . The great

cornerstone of valiance in the cause of righteousness

is obedience to the whole law of the whole gospel.

“To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to ‘come

unto Christ, and be perfected in him’; it is to deny

ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ and ‘love God’ with

all our ‘might, mind and strength.’ (Moro. 10:32.)

“To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to

believe in Christ and his gospel with unshakable

conviction. It is to know of the verity and divinity

of the Lord’s work on earth.

“But this is not all. It is more than believing and

knowing. We must be doers of the word and not

hearers only. It is more than lip service; it is not

simply confessing with the mouth the divine Sonship

of the Savior. It is obedience and conformity and

personal righteousness. ‘Not every one that saith

unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of

heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which

is in heaven.’ (Matt. 7:21.)

“To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to ‘press

forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a

perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and

of all men.’ It is to ‘endure to the end.’ (2 Ne. 31:20.)

It is to live our religion, to practice what we preach,

to keep the commandments. It is the manifestation

of ‘pure religion’ in the lives of men; it is visiting ‘the

fatherless and widows in their affliction’ and keeping

ourselves ‘unspotted from the world.’ (James 1:27.)

“To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to

bridle our passions, control our appetites, and rise

above carnal and evil things. It is to overcome the

world as did he who is our prototype and who

himself was the most valiant of all our Father’s

children. It is to be morally clean, to pay our tithes

and offerings, to honor the Sabbath day, to pray with

full purpose of heart, to lay our all upon the altar if

called upon to do so.

“To be valiant in the testimony of Jesus is to take

the Lord’s side on every issue. It is to vote as he

would vote. It is to think what he thinks, to believe

what he believes, to say what he would say and do

what he would do in the same situation. It is to have

the mind of Christ and be one with him as he is one

with his Father.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1974,

pp. 45–46; or Ensign, Nov. 1974, pp. 33–35.)

D&C 76:81–85. Those Who Inherit the Telestial

Glory Will Pass through Hell

Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained:

“That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked

spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of their

resurrection is called hell. Between their death and

resurrection, these souls of the wicked are cast out

into outer darkness, into the gloomy depression of

sheol, into the hades of waiting wicked spirits, into

hell. There they suffer the torments of the damned;

there they welter in the vengeance of eternal fire;

there is found weeping and wailing and gnashing

of teeth; there the fiery indignation of the wrath of

God is poured out upon the wicked. (Alma 40:11–14;

D. & C. 76:103–106.)

“Hell will have an end. Viewing future events,

John saw that ‘death and hell delivered up the dead

which were in them: and they were judged every

man according to their works.’ (Rev. 20:13.) Jacob

taught that this escape from death and hell meant the

bringing of the body out of the grave and the spirit

out of hell. ‘And this death of which I have spoken,

which is the spiritual death,’ he said, ‘shall deliver up

its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death

and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must

deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver

up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits

of men will be restored one to the other.’ (2 Ne.

9:10–12.) It was in keeping with this principle for

David to receive the promise: ‘Thou wilt not leave

my soul in hell.’ (Psalms 16:10; Acts 2:27.)

“After their resurrection, the great majority of

those who have suffered in hell will pass into the

telestial kingdom; the balance, cursed as sons of

perdition, will be consigned to partake of endless

wo with the devil and his angels. . . .

“Who will go to hell? This query is abundantly

answered in the scriptures. Since those going to a

telestial kingdom travel to their destination through

the depths of hell and as a result of obedience to

telestial law, it follows that all those who live a

telestial law will go to hell.” (Mormon Doctrine,

pp. 349–50.)

D&C 76:89–106. Why Will Those Who Inherit

the Telestial Kingdom Receive a Glory That

“Surpasses All Understanding”?

All who receive the telestial kingdom will have paid

a price for this glory. The fact that after they pay this

price they inherit a telestial glory is evidence of the

Father’s love and mercy. Elder John A. Widtsoe

wrote:

“The [Doctrine and Covenants] explains clearly

that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so

glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man.

It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the

meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive

a glory which is beyond human understanding,

which is so great that we are unable to describe it

adequately. Those who do well will receive an even

more glorious place. Those who dwell in the lower

may look wistfully to the higher as we do here. The

hell on the other side will be felt in some such way.

“The Gospel is a gospel of tremendous love. Love

is at the bottom of it. The meanest child is loved so

dearly that his reward will be beyond the

understanding of mortal man.” (Message of the

Doctrine and Covenants, p. 167.)

Only the sons of perdition, who deny the truth

and openly defy God (see D&C 76:31), will be denied

a kingdom of glory (see Notes and Commentary

on D&C 76:31–49).

D&C 76:107. “I Have Overcome and Have

Trodden the Wine-Press Alone”

Notes and Commentary for Doctrine and Covenants

133:50 explains the meaning of treading the wine

press.

D&C 76:111. “Every Man Shall Receive

According to His Own Works”

“We are not preaching the gospel with the idea of

trying to save people in the terrestrial world. Ours

is the salvation of exaltation. What we are trying to

do with the gospel of Jesus Christ is to bring people

back again, through the power of the priesthood and

the ordinances of the Church, as sons and daughters

of God, receiving a fulness of the Father’s kingdom.

That is our endeavor.” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation,

2:190–91.)

D&C 76:116. They Are Only to Be Seen and

Understood by the Power of the Holy Spirit

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote: “Could we read and

comprehend all that has been written from the days

of Adam, on the relation of man to God and angels

in a future state, we should know very little about it.

Reading the experience of others, or the revelation

given to them, can never give us a comprehensive

view of our condition and true relation to God.

Knowledge of these things can only be obtained by

experience through the ordinances of God set forth

for that purpose. Could you gaze into heaven five

minutes, you would know more than you would by

reading all that ever was written on the subject.”

(History of the Church, 6:50.)

The fulness of temple blessings is reserved for those who overcome

all things.

[boyando]

<div class='quotemain'>

This counsel in the heavens, was that a counsel of Gods? If so, how did Jesus and Satan attend? That is the part I'm getting confused about.

Thanks,

Dr T

This council of heaven was attended by God and many of His children known as "the Noble and Great Ones" among which was Jesus Christ and Lucifer. It was here that Jesus was chosen to be our Saviour; at which point He was promoted to God over this world. Lucifer rejected the plan chosen by God the Father and led away one third of Gods children; the remainder of which chose to follow our Father's plan and showed it by their degree of faithfulness in keeping their first estate.

After this council, God the Father, along with Jesus Christ and the other noble and great ones, organized this world.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

L.H.

The only thing that I would add, L.H., is that we were all there and that we all participated in the counsel. A.