Families Can Be Together Forever...

January 2, 2004

http://people.uleth.ca/~anderson/hymns/300.htm

Families can be together forever

I have a family here on earth. They are so good to me.

I want to share my life with them through all eternity.

Fam'lies can be together forever Through Heav'nly Father's plan.

I always want to be with my own family, And the Lord has shown me how I can. The Lord has shown me how I can.

While I am in my early years, I'll prepare most carefully,

So I can marry in God's temple for eternity.

Fam'lies can be together forever Through Heav'nly Father's plan.

I always want to be with my own family, And the Lord has shown me how I can. The Lord has shown me how I can.

Cal · January 10, 2004

When I hear this, I always have to ask the question: Where in Mormon scripture does it say that Non-mormons CAN'T hang out with their families in the hearafter? I'll save you the bother find trying to find out-----NOWHERE. So again, why is it such a big deal that Mormons think that they can be together forever, when there is nothing in mormon scripture that precludes anyone and every one from hanging out with their families if they so choose.

Perhaps you are drawing an inference from DC 132 or 131 that in order for a marriage to be recognized of God in the hereafter that it has to be a Mormon (priesthood) marriage. Granted. But, how do you leap from that to the idea that Non-mormons can't be with their families in the hearafter. The scripture says NOTHING about that.

The only conclusion I have been able to draw from this mormon claim is that it is a way for us to coerce others to join our Church. It is sort of like "join our church or else you won't be able to hang out with your family members when you die". As far as I can tell this is one of those false doctrines that needs clarification by a statement from the First Presidency.

January 10, 2004

I served my mission in France in the early 70s. The one overwhelming thing I noticed while there was the devistation which occurred whenever a Catholic member would loose someone in death...because if they weren't baptised when an infant, that child was doomed to hell...even if it was still born, or new born who didn't have the 'chance' to be baptised.

The old time religion way back in the early times when JS came into the spot light the people weren't even taught about families being together...it was all based upon 'individual' righteousness or not, whether or not they were going to heaven.

You either went to hell or heaven, nowhere in between...and family wasn't even mentioned. It was horrible for people to see their children or other family members go to hell because they wouldn't do this or that and there wasn't anything they could do about it.

In the LDS church we are taught that work for the dead can take care of those who refused the gospel here because they 'didn't fully understand it' and will have it preached to them on the other side....thus bringing families together in the hereafter.

My older brother went off the deep end when only twelve. He was way messed up for decades and finally married a women with two kids who belonged to the Lutheren church.

He didn't have any concept of the church...and in his later years only heard the anti mormon doctrine....so I know he will be a good candidate for getting the 'truth' taught to him in spirit prison, and probably by his older brother and father...because that is what they are doing right now on the other side.

And I know when he hears the truth...he will accept all the work done here for him...

January 10, 2004

I believe and have faith that there IS NO LIFE AFTER DEATH, at least no "life" in the sense that xtians and mormons have.

We will not be individuals, we will not exist as the personality or body that we are now experiencing. Our various molecules, whether matter or energy, will decay apart and disperse to "live" again in the other "living" things, be it grass or fungi or the animals that eat the grass or fungi that ingest our decayed component parts.

Perhaps "ghosts" are the yet unfully decayed energy mass of a past living thing, much like the not yet fully decayed parts of ancient bodies we still find. Nothing living, to be sure, but something not yet fully split apart and recycled into another "life" as of yet.

In this way, we live on and on, and have "always lived". Part of the Circle of Life, eh?

I am not concerned that I live on "forever" in the way other people wish to do, a desire and /or need other have that I have never understood fully. There is no fear or sense of loss in giving up the ME that exists here and now. Any life is a small miracle, never to be repeated in exactly the same combination of matter and energy animating that matter. I am enjoying that "I" exist now, as a sentient being. It is comforting to me that all that I am will go on to give life to many other creatures after I die.

In light of this belief of mine, in which I have total faith, I find the practice of embalming and entombing dead bodies to be abhorrent. I have instructed my children that my body is to be cremated and spread about in order to get my carbon molecules, etc, back into the life cycle as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be buried in a simple pine box and have a fruit tree planted on top, so that anyone who eats an apple off it might be ingesting "part" of me. Since our current laws do not permit this, cremation is the next best thing.

January 10, 2004

Originally posted by bizabra@Jan 10 2004, 01:28 PM
I believe and have faith that there IS NO LIFE AFTER DEATH, at least no "life" in the sense that xtians and mormons have.
We will not be individuals, we will not exist as the personality or body that we are now experiencing. Our various molecules, whether matter or energy, will decay apart and disperse to "live" again in the other "living" things, be it grass or fungi or the animals that eat the grass or fungi that ingest our decayed component parts.
Perhaps "ghosts" are the yet unfully decayed energy mass of a past living thing, much like the not yet fully decayed parts of ancient bodies we still find. Nothing living, to be sure, but something not yet fully split apart and recycled into another "life" as of yet.
In this way, we live on and on, and have "always lived". Part of the Circle of Life, eh?
I am not concerned that I live on "forever" in the way other people wish to do, a desire and /or need other have that I have never understood fully. There is no fear or sense of loss in giving up the ME that exists here and now. Any life is a small miracle, never to be repeated in exactly the same combination of matter and energy animating that matter. I am enjoying that "I" exist now, as a sentient being. It is comforting to me that all that I am will go on to give life to many other creatures after I die.
In light of this belief of mine, in which I have total faith, I find the practice of embalming and entombing dead bodies to be abhorrent. I have instructed my children that my body is to be cremated and spread about in order to get my carbon molecules, etc, back into the life cycle as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be buried in a simple pine box and have a fruit tree planted on top, so that anyone who eats an apple off it might be ingesting "part" of me. Since our current laws do not permit this, cremation is the next best thing.

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:...Pro. 23:7

Whatsoever things are true, honest, pure, or lovely, think on these things, Philip. 4: 8.

Remember, to be carnally-minded is death, and to be spiritually-minded is life eternal, 2 Ne. 9: 39.

If ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, ye must perish, Mosiah 4: 30.

Our thoughts will condemn us, Alma 12: 14.

Only God knows the thoughts and intents of thy heart, D&C 6: 16 (D&C 33: 1).

Look unto me in every thought, D&C 6: 36.

Treasure up in your minds the words of life, D&C 84: 85.

Cast away your idle thoughts, D&C 88: 69.

The thoughts of men’s hearts will be revealed, D&C 88: 109.

Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly, D&C 121: 45.

January 10, 2004

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 10 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 10 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Jan 10 2004, 01:28 PM
I believe and have faith that there IS NO LIFE AFTER DEATH, at least no "life" in the sense that xtians and mormons have.
We will not be individuals, we will not exist as the personality or body that we are now experiencing. Our various molecules, whether matter or energy, will decay apart and disperse to "live" again in the other "living" things, be it grass or fungi or the animals that eat the grass or fungi that ingest our decayed component parts.
Perhaps "ghosts" are the yet unfully decayed energy mass of a past living thing, much like the not yet fully decayed parts of ancient bodies we still find. Nothing living, to be sure, but something not yet fully split apart and recycled into another "life" as of yet.
In this way, we live on and on, and have "always lived". Part of the Circle of Life, eh?
I am not concerned that I live on "forever" in the way other people wish to do, a desire and /or need other have that I have never understood fully. There is no fear or sense of loss in giving up the ME that exists here and now. Any life is a small miracle, never to be repeated in exactly the same combination of matter and energy animating that matter. I am enjoying that "I" exist now, as a sentient being. It is comforting to me that all that I am will go on to give life to many other creatures after I die.
In light of this belief of mine, in which I have total faith, I find the practice of embalming and entombing dead bodies to be abhorrent. I have instructed my children that my body is to be cremated and spread about in order to get my carbon molecules, etc, back into the life cycle as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be buried in a simple pine box and have a fruit tree planted on top, so that anyone who eats an apple off it might be ingesting "part" of me. Since our current laws do not permit this, cremation is the next best thing.

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:...Pro. 23:7

Whatsoever things are true, honest, pure, or lovely, think on these things, Philip. 4: 8.

Remember, to be carnally-minded is death, and to be spiritually-minded is life eternal, 2 Ne. 9: 39.

If ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, ye must perish, Mosiah 4: 30.

Our thoughts will condemn us, Alma 12: 14.

Only God knows the thoughts and intents of thy heart, D&C 6: 16 (D&C 33: 1).

Look unto me in every thought, D&C 6: 36.

Treasure up in your minds the words of life, D&C 84: 85.

Cast away your idle thoughts, D&C 88: 69.

The thoughts of men’s hearts will be revealed, D&C 88: 109.

Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly, D&C 121: 45.

And your point was. . . . . . . . . . . . . ?

January 10, 2004

LOL...if you missed it, I can't help you....maybe you need to do a little deeper thinking? eh?

January 10, 2004

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 10 2004, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 10 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Jan 10 2004, 01:28 PM
I believe and have faith that there IS NO LIFE AFTER DEATH, at least no "life" in the sense that xtians and mormons have.
We will not be individuals, we will not exist as the personality or body that we are now experiencing. Our various molecules, whether matter or energy, will decay apart and disperse to "live" again in the other "living" things, be it grass or fungi or the animals that eat the grass or fungi that ingest our decayed component parts.
Perhaps "ghosts" are the yet unfully decayed energy mass of a past living thing, much like the not yet fully decayed parts of ancient bodies we still find. Nothing living, to be sure, but something not yet fully split apart and recycled into another "life" as of yet.
In this way, we live on and on, and have "always lived". Part of the Circle of Life, eh?
I am not concerned that I live on "forever" in the way other people wish to do, a desire and /or need other have that I have never understood fully. There is no fear or sense of loss in giving up the ME that exists here and now. Any life is a small miracle, never to be repeated in exactly the same combination of matter and energy animating that matter. I am enjoying that "I" exist now, as a sentient being. It is comforting to me that all that I am will go on to give life to many other creatures after I die.
In light of this belief of mine, in which I have total faith, I find the practice of embalming and entombing dead bodies to be abhorrent. I have instructed my children that my body is to be cremated and spread about in order to get my carbon molecules, etc, back into the life cycle as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be buried in a simple pine box and have a fruit tree planted on top, so that anyone who eats an apple off it might be ingesting "part" of me. Since our current laws do not permit this, cremation is the next best thing.

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:...Pro. 23:7

Whatsoever things are true, honest, pure, or lovely, think on these things, Philip. 4: 8.

Remember, to be carnally-minded is death, and to be spiritually-minded is life eternal, 2 Ne. 9: 39.

If ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, ye must perish, Mosiah 4: 30.

Our thoughts will condemn us, Alma 12: 14.

Only God knows the thoughts and intents of thy heart, D&C 6: 16 (D&C 33: 1).

Look unto me in every thought, D&C 6: 36.

Treasure up in your minds the words of life, D&C 84: 85.

Cast away your idle thoughts, D&C 88: 69.

The thoughts of men’s hearts will be revealed, D&C 88: 109.

Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly, D&C 121: 45.

The Buddha said, "The renunciate Sramana cuts off the passions, frees himself

of attachments, understands the source of his own mind, penetrates the deepest

doctrine of Buddha, and comprehends the Dharma which is immaterial. He has no

prejudice in his heart, he has nothing to hanker after. He is not hampered by the

thought of the Way, nor is he entangled in karma. No prejudice, no compulsion, so

discipline, no enlightenment, and no going up through the grades, and yet in possession

of all honours in itself - this is what is meant by the Way."

The Buddha said, "Men are tied up to their famililes and possessions more

helplessly than in a prison. There is an occassion for the prisoner to be released,

but the housholders entertain no desire to be relieved from the ties of family. Even

into the paws of a tiger, he will jump. Those who are thus drowned in the filth of

passion are called the ignorant. Those who are able to overcome it are saintly Arhats."

The Buddha asked another monk, "How do you measure the length of a man's

life?" He answered, "By days." The Buddha said, "You do not understand the Way."

The Buddha asked another monk, "How do you measure the length of a man's life?"

The monk answered, "By the time that passes during a meal." The Buddha said, "You

do not understand the Way." The Buddha asked the third monk, "How do you measure

the length of a man's life?" The monk answered, "By the breadth." The Buddha

said, "Very well, you know the Way."

Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world."

Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia

"...There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no ego-entity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words.

Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities. Thy heart, O Brahman, is cleaving still to self; thou art anxious about heaven but thou seekest the pleasures of self in heaven, and thus thou canst not see the bliss of truth and the immortality of truth."

Buddha

‘The correct understanding that death is nothing to us makes our mortality enjoyable, not by adding infinite time, but by taking away the yearning for immortality’ (Epicurus Letter to Menoeceus 124).

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

The Gospel according to AFDaw

The scriptures say that God is a jealous God (among many thing), wanting us to put no others before him, so why would it seem odd that our God might not be happy with us if we openly denied him? Keep in mind I'm referring to those who have received testimony through the Holy Ghost that he does exist. I think it only makes sense for God to be upset at his children who know full well he is God and reject him knowing this.

sgallan - You ask if "arrogance" is considered a value in our faith. I can't answer for Peace (since it would seem that's who you were asking) but as for myself, wouldn't it make sense that we believe our faith to be true and right? And wouldn't it make sense that we are proud to be who we are? And could it be that you are mistaking that pride for arrogance?

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

Cool. But without a shred of quantifiable proof of such a god; why would I want to worship such a being? Not that I mind you do. But I see no value for me.

Then don't worship him, I promise not to lose sleep over it tonight

The only 'real' way one could know is through a visitation. That is why Outer Darkness in LDS theology would be so rare. Even then, why is God so insecure, or egotistical, or both..... that he demands we kiss his hiny?

Uhm...wrong. I said "Keep in mind I'm referring to those who have received testimony through the Holy Ghost that he does exist." The Holy Ghost can manifest the truth to you without a vistation from God himself. And honestly...do you have a butt kissing fetish? Or do you like to just mention that whenever possible?

Taking this a version of a logical conclusion....... then I take it you don't have a problem with what the 9/11 terrorists did then? Because in their beliefs they sincerely believe they were called by god to do what they did. To the point they were willing to die for those beliefs. What would be the difference.

Be careful...you know what they say about those who assume. Where in what I said did I even remotly imply that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were ok? I'm not doubting that they believe that their God told them to fly those planes into those buildings. Just like I don't doubt certain "Mormons" feel that they are called of God to take on more than one wife. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Then you ask "What would be the difference." Are you serious? How about the difference is that while I know what I believe to be true, I don't go around murdering innocent people who don't agree with my beliefs. How about, I don't have a murder training camp where I have other fellow Latter Day Saints practicing ways to kill off woman and children and men who are of another faith. How about, I'm not so blind to think that others in this world need to agree with my beliefs and if they don't, they should die. I can't honestly believe you would have asked such a ridiculous question...in my opinion.

Isn't "prideful" supposed to be 'bad' as well? I get called this all of the time as an insult. ;-)

Being prideful is a sin. However, being prideful is not the same as being proud of who you are or what you believe. And I think you realize that too. I'm a woman, I'm a mother, I'm a daughter, a sister, a wife and I am proud of all these things. But I am not "prideful" that I find those who are not like me are inferior.

January 11, 2004

LOOK I'M GOING TO SAY THIS ONCE! STICK TO THE TOPIC!..PEACE.was trying to share something nice and a few people changed it and went from there. If you want to go off on a topic start a new thread, but don't take a pefectly good topic like this and reroute it!</span>

LaurelTree

<span style=\'color:red\'>AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY WE HAVE BEEN STOPPING AND PULLING THREADS HMMMMMM

sgallan · January 11, 2004

If you want to go off on a topic start a new thread, but don't take a pefectly good topic like this and reroute it! *****

Well I found some of the implications as arrogant and mean spirited. So if that means you pull it..... pull it.

One of the weaknesses of many LDS, and a partial reason why my God believing (an LDS version of god at that) wife no longer attends your church (and she even went for a couple of weeks recently) was because of the tendency for the true believers to say things which are patently hurtful to those who are older converts and not part of the culture. Instead of going to church and feeling uplifted, she goes to church and hears things about her family, peers, and friends, which sorta says they suck. The people who do this don't realize they are doing so, but nonetheless..... why would she want to hang around and listen to all of that on a regular basis.

Think about it.

Or not.....

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

First off...I really don't know what you're implying to with the whole 800lb gorrilla political standpoint thingy. Sooo...don't know what to say to that.

What am I beating you over the head with? Your post left me a little more confused. And I don't see how I'm giving off the vibe of being prideful. That would be if I were to say such ridiculous things like "All woman who are not mothers are horrible people" or "Being a daughter is the best thing that anyone could be, so all men are little pigs who deserve to burn in hell"

Also, you say that as long as people keep to themselves about the religion, you don't mind. So what exactly is it you're doing here? Wouldn't that be YOU trying to beat us over the head with your beliefs and what not? I doubt you come here to gain understand as to why we believe what we do, so I would think the only other explanation is to possibly "save" us from what you consider to be wrong. Which would in turn actually make you the prideful one.

sgallan · January 11, 2004

First off...I really don't know what you're implying to with the whole 800lb gorrilla political standpoint thingy. Sooo...don't know what to say to that. ****

The churches political activities with regard to gays....

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

Oh yes...I'm sorry. I missed the last "Stoning of the Homosexual" party that the church threw. Thanks for reminding me. I see how you would compare our stance on homosexuals to those who decided to fly planes into bldgs killing 1000's of innocent people. We after all have a belief and stick to it, and these people decided to actually harm and kill people for being Christian. Yes...it's all so very clear to me.

sgallan · January 11, 2004

Also, you say that as long as people keep to themselves about the religion, you don't mind. So what exactly is it you're doing here?****

It's the "I am technically a member" loophole. But if this bothers you I'll gladly give you them names and numbers of my SP and Bishop and you can "out" me.

*** Wouldn't that be YOU trying to beat us over the head with your beliefs and what not?****

You mean I don't have a right to beliefs in your world? Interesting.

**** I doubt you come here to gain understand as to why we believe what we do, so I would think the only other explanation is to possibly "save" us from what you consider to be wrong. ****

I know a lot of what you do. Tell you what. Here is your chance. The cute thing in the pick is my daughter (the guy is not me).

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200089.htm

What value do you have for her? Especially given your attitude to me. Why would I want her to attend your church (they still send her stuff afterall)? Why shouldn't I raise her in a secular - even agnostic - way instead?

**** Which would in turn actually make you the prideful one. *****

I already admitted that. But I am a godless heathen afterall.

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

sgallan - I have no doubt people in the church say things that can make others feel bad. I've had them said to me (like a woman in RS once said that those who marry a convert shouldn't get married at all), and I've been a member my whole life. But I've also had non-members say things that have hurt me as well. (like when I was 8mos pregnant and a woman at work said "Black is a sliming color, but it's not working on you!") I don't think that's limited to just the church, as I don't think you can sterotype the ENTIRE church because of what some people say.

Marsha · January 11, 2004

sgallen,

Why keep posting your daughters picture here? What does that have to do with this thread? Most of us have seen it and know that she wrestles and that you take her to the tournaments.

What is the correlation here in this thread with that?

Marsha

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

It's the "I am technically a member" loophole. But if this bothers you I'll gladly give you them names and numbers of my SP and Bishop and you can "out" me.

My point about what are you doing here was that you obviously don't agree with the church, so why are you here? Even if you are "technically" a member. I don't agree with homosexuals, with the Catholic church, with Nazi's...but I also don't go to their little gathering places either. I'm just trying to understand why anyone who doesn't agree with someone feels the need to meet up with them. This isn't an insult...I was honestly asking what your point of being here was and what you hoped to achieve by participating in these boards. Honestly.

I know a lot of what you do. Tell you what. Here is your chance. The cute thing in the pick is my daughter (the guy is not me).
http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200089.htm
What value do you have for her? Especially given your attitude to me. Why would I want her to attend your church (they still send her stuff afterall)? Why shouldn't I raise her in a secular - even agnostic - way instead?

The honest to goodness truth is I don't care how you raise her. That's not because I don't care for her wellbeing, yours or who evers, but I am a parent. I will raise my child (soon to be children) the way I want them to be raised and the way I think is best for them. I don't care if others disagree with me or not, it's none of their business. So you can't ask me why I wouldn't have you raise her in the church. That's your choice and your wife's.

sgallan · January 11, 2004

Marsha -

Because it almost always gets an emotional reaction ehich wither directs the conversation to a middle ground, or gets the extent of the disagreements in the air.

Don't tell me you don't like me anymore either? It's not like I post here all that much. and I rarely cause trouble.

Or is it because I am a 'gentile' and you've turned over a new leaf?

Do whatever you feel you need to do....

Marsha · January 11, 2004

Originally posted by sgallan@Jan 10 2004, 10:39 PM
Marsha -
Because it almost always gets an emotional reaction ehich wither directs the conversation to a middle ground, or gets the extent of the disagreements in the air.
Don't tell me you don't like me anymore either? It's not like I post here all that much. and I rarely cause trouble.
Or is it because I am a 'gentile' and you've turned over a new leaf?
Do whatever you feel you need to do....

Never said that I didn't like you. Just wondering where you were going with this. I do appreciate your answer. Maybe you should post more often!

As far as liking or disliking, Can't think of anyone that I do dislike. I don't always agree with people, but that doesn't mean that I don't like.

Marsha

sgallan · January 11, 2004

I don't think that's limited to just the church, as I don't think you can sterotype the ENTIRE church because of what some people say. ****

Please go back and re-read the post before you say I condemn the ENTIRE church. Try, really try, not to think in those sort of black/white terms. There is a lot good in this church. Especially for the believers. For them, and you, it is good. I would insist to you to keep it. Really. Try not to pigeonhole me either. Because when you do so you are doing the samething you are complaining about. In any event; it is NOT a welcoming place for any save conservative types however.... generally speaking. The people, and the culture..... as a generality..... do not like people like me or mine.

sgallan · January 11, 2004

Marsha -

Cool. Your post seemed testy is all. Sorry if I went off half-cocked.

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

But obviously what has been said to your wife by those who are in her church have made such a negative feeling that she

A) doesn't want to go and/or

B) has reservations about having her kids raised in the church

While I truly know you are not sterotyping the entire church, for it to have such an effect as A and B, then I would think there are some resentful feelings to even other members who may not feel that way.

As for the conservative remark. (This only applies if you are referring to the political standpoint) My stake has many liberals in it, and in my old stake, as well. In fact, I've been in quite a few discussions with others in the church because we don't see eye to eye on many issues.

AFDaw · January 11, 2004

Hey...that B) is suppose to be a B and then a )

Interesting side effect :)

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