What is Love?

[Guest]

Anatess: As I've thought about it, I don't think I would agree that Dr. Gottman or anyone is suggesting that love should be a tit for tat, quid pro quo, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine kind of arrangement.

Perhaps the comparison to fasting is a good way to explain it. As you say, fasting without purpose is just going hungry. On the other side of the coin, we've also been taught that fasting for days on end until we are sick and malnourished is also not appropriate. In the same way, selflessness is a necessary component of true love. Sacrificing to the point of becoming a "martyr" for the relationship or becoming resentful and hateful is not.

Yes, it's not. Because you can't care for the person you love if you're sick (physically or mentally or spiritually). But, think of the words resentful and hateful. Where did that come from? When I think of those words, I think it comes from the expectation of getting something in return.

I have built this testimony really strongly and deeply when my dad got sick. I would make my dad's breakfast so he can eat at 5AM so he can take his meds at 5:30. I'm not a morning person. He would be so difficult, criticizing the food. And he would get so upset if I'm one minute late... etc. After a few weeks of this, I talk to my husband crying telling him, "He won't even say Thank you.", etc. etc. And then right when I said that, I stopped and reflected on it. And I realized, I am so upset because I was waiting for my dad to say Thank You... I was waiting for that "You're such a great daughter"... so I can bask in his praise and everything. And because I didn't get it, every complaint my dad makes made it that much more painful. I realized that I was waking up at 4:30AM not just for my dad but for myself. So I can be the hero.

I completely changed after that. I immersed myself in the service to my dad and my dad only. Without needing the Thanks or Praise or anything. And my dad would still be crabby and I can now sit back and realize, he feels like crap, it is too much for him, so he's lashing out. And I don't even feel any hurt at all. I just feel pain that my dad is feeling so crappy.

When my dad passed away, I felt so at peace. I had no regrets. I love him so much even when he was at his most difficult.

Now, my dad had cancer. It wasn't that he was abusing my service. He really needed all of his kids then. There are those who are just users and abusers. One needs to recognize this because it is very possible that the service we are giving is not the kind of service that our loved ones need to get on that road to Christ.

Edited September 16, 2013 by anatess

[MrShorty]

Dr John Lund (LDS who at least at one time was a LMFT) said, and I won't remember it exactly, something to the effect of, "frustration is the result of unmet expectations." IIRC, he said this on his way to introducing his concept of "content communication." I think you are right -- part of learning to really love someone is about managing our expectations, which is not the same thing as "sacrificing" all expectations. In some extenuating circumstances (like with your father), it shows a great deal of love to stop expecting "thank you"s and other kind words. On the other hand, living with a verbally abusive husband or wife will eventually destroy love, and the best thing one might do is to, not only expect, but demand to be spoken to with respect and kindness.

Or perhaps DrPepper's thread about PMS offers another example. Some women have shorter tempers during that time of the month. A husband who truly loves his wife will extend as much grace and patience as he can, but there should be limits to what he will tolerate.

Sometimes I think this might be one of the most difficult parts of relationships -- how to know what expectations to put on the altar, and which ones need to be enforced. It is about me and who I am, my spouse and who he/she is, and about the situation and other external circumstances all rolled together.

[Guest]

Dr John Lund (LDS who at least at one time was a LMFT) said, and I won't remember it exactly, something to the effect of, "frustration is the result of unmet expectations." IIRC, he said this on his way to introducing his concept of "content communication." I think you are right -- part of learning to really love someone is about managing our expectations, which is not the same thing as "sacrificing" all expectations. In some extenuating circumstances (like with your father), it shows a great deal of love to stop expecting "thank you"s and other kind words. On the other hand, living with a verbally abusive husband or wife will eventually destroy love, and the best thing one might do is to, not only expect, but demand to be spoken to with respect and kindness.

Or perhaps DrPepper's thread about PMS offers another example. Some women have shorter tempers during that time of the month. A husband who truly loves his wife will extend as much grace and patience as he can, but there should be limits to what he will tolerate.

Sometimes I think this might be one of the most difficult parts of relationships -- how to know what expectations to put on the altar, and which ones need to be enforced. It is about me and who I am, my spouse and who he/she is, and about the situation and other external circumstances all rolled together.

The objective is to serve the other. To lead him/her to the path of fullness of joy. When that person is abusive, taking the abuse is not achieving that objective. Instead, it is bringing that person farther and farther from the path to God by allowing him/her to continue the abuse and not to seek a way to overcome it.