Moses And Polygamy

[Guest curvette]

Someone mentioned on another thread that Moses was a polygamist. He may have been since it was common among Egyptian royalty, but the scriptures don't mention it. The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture where Miriam and Aaron are chiding Moses for the "Ethopian" woman that Moses married. It's possible that he did marry an Ethiopian woman at some point because the Egyptians traded a lot with the Ethiopians. But there is a more likely interpretation for this scripture. "Cushite" is the word actually used which can be interpreted as "Ethiopian", but it means "black". Most experts on the old testament argue that they were simply referring to Zipporah the Midianite. She most likely was very dark skinned and Miriam and Aaron were chastizing their younger brother for marrying a foreigner. I just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

[Kevin]

For those who ascribe to latter-day scripture it is clear that Moses was indeed a ploygamist.

Doctrine & Covenants 132: 38: David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

I don't know that "The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture" when there are other passages which clearly say as much.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Kevin@Mar 29 2004, 11:48 AM

For those who ascribe to latter-day scripture it is clear that Moses was indeed a ploygamist.

Doctrine & Covenants 132: 38: David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

I don't know that "The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture" when there are other passages which clearly say as much.

Oh yes. Passages which were, perhaps, inspired by the Old Testament scripture...

[srm]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 29 2004, 11:41 AM

Someone mentioned on another thread that Moses was a polygamist. He may have been since it was common among Egyptian royalty, but the scriptures don't mention it. The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture where Miriam and Aaron are chiding Moses for the "Ethopian" woman that Moses married. It's possible that he did marry an Ethiopian woman at some point because the Egyptians traded a lot with the Ethiopians. But there is a more likely interpretation for this scripture. "Cushite" is the word actually used which can be interpreted as "Ethiopian", but it means "black". Most experts on the old testament argue that they were simply referring to Zipporah the Midianite. She most likely was very dark skinned and Miriam and Aaron were chastizing their younger brother for marrying a foreigner. I just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most? Well moses would have been dark skinned too. What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

[Guest Ammon]

Of course Moses was a polygamist. I thought that was pretty much common-knowledge.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:11 PM

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most? Well moses would have been dark skinned too. What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

Why would Moses have been dark skinned? He was Hebrew.

[srm]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 29 2004, 12:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 29 2004, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:11 PM

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most?  Well moses would have been dark skinned too.  What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

Why would Moses have been dark skinned? He was Hebrew.

for the same reason that most semetic people are dark skinned.

[Guest curvette]

Most Jews I know are not dark skinned. Of course, they were in exile in Europe for so many centuries that it makes sense that they are much lighter skinned now than their ancestors. At any rate, Cush means black. But sometimes it's a name, a kingdom, or specifically Ethiopia. It makes perfect sense to me that Moses' siblings were referring to Zipporah when they they were chiding him about the "Cushite." It may have been a racial slur, or simply the fact that he'd married a black foreigner or a woman from a place that was inhabited by Cushites. Here's a link for you if you are interested: http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=3568

[Snow]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 29 2004, 01:19 PM

Most Jews I know are not dark skinned

Moses was undoubtedly Puerto Rican. Correct me if I am mistaken but wasn't his full name Moses Hernando Ramirez De la Cruz?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 29 2004, 01:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 29 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Mar 29 2004, 01:19 PM

Most Jews I know are not dark skinned

Moses was undoubtedly Puerto Rican. Correct me if I am mistaken but wasn't his full name Moses Hernando Ramirez De la Cruz?

Close. I believe the full name is: Moses Hernando Ramirez BEN- Delacruz...

[srm]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 29 2004, 01:19 PM

Most Jews I know are not dark skinned. Of course, they were in exile in Europe for so many centuries that it makes sense that they are much lighter skinned now than their ancestors. At any rate, Cush means black. But sometimes it's a name, a kingdom, or specifically Ethiopia. It makes perfect sense to me that Moses' siblings were referring to Zipporah when they they were chiding him about the "Cushite." It may have been a racial slur, or simply the fact that he'd married a black foreigner or a woman from a place that was inhabited by Cushites. Here's a link for you if you are interested: http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=3568

That is the point...Zipporah was a Midianite...a descendant of abraham. Why would you assume that she was from Cush?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 29 2004, 11:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 29 2004, 11:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Kevin@Mar 29 2004, 11:48 AM

For those who ascribe to latter-day scripture it is clear that Moses was indeed a ploygamist.

Doctrine & Covenants 132: 38: David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

I don't know that "The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture" when there are other passages which clearly say as much.

Oh yes. Passages which were, perhaps, inspired by the Old Testament scripture...

Sure, anything's possible. Have you any evidence to confirm or lend creedence to such a position?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Kevin@Mar 29 2004, 11:48 AM

For those who ascribe to latter-day scripture it is clear that Moses was indeed a ploygamist.

Doctrine & Covenants 132: 38: David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

I don't know that "The LDS have glommed on to one Old Testament scripture" when there are other passages which clearly say as much.

Do you mean the Section 132 that Joseph Smith never presented to the church for canonization prior to his death? The one that can't be verified to be his?

I thought so.

[srm]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 29 2004, 01:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 29 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Mar 29 2004, 01:19 PM

Most Jews I know are not dark skinned

Moses was undoubtedly Puerto Rican. Correct me if I am mistaken but wasn't his full name Moses Hernando Ramirez De la Cruz?

Moises

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by srm@Mar 29 2004, 02:20 PM

[

That is the point...Zipporah was a Midianite...a descendant of abraham. Why would you assume that she was from Cush?

I would not assume she was Ethiopian. The Cushite empire though crossed over into Arabia. Abraham, of course, was from Mesopotamia. Who knows where his wife Keturah was from? There are several possibilities to link Zipporah to Cush. Keturah could have been Cushite. The region where Zipporah lived could have been considered Cushite territory, or she may have simply been very dark skinned (she was a shepardess and whatever her natural color was, would have been deeply tanned) and the Cushite remark could have been a racial slur. Who knows? I don't even discount the possibility that Moses had another wife either during or after his marriage to Zipporah. I like to look at all possibilities and this one seemed very likely to me.

[srm]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 29 2004, 08:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 29 2004, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 29 2004, 02:20 PM

[

That is the point...Zipporah was a Midianite...a descendant of abraham.  Why would you assume that she was from Cush?

I would not assume she was Ethiopian. The Cushite empire though crossed over into Arabia. Abraham, of course, was from Mesopotamia. Who knows where his wife Keturah was from? There are several possibilities to link Zipporah to Cush. Keturah could have been Cushite. The region where Zipporah lived could have been considered Cushite territory, or she may have simply been very dark skinned (she was a shepardess and whatever her natural color was, would have been deeply tanned) and the Cushite remark could have been a racial slur. Who knows? I don't even discount the possibility that Moses had another wife either during or after his marriage to Zipporah. I like to look at all possibilities and this one seemed very likely to me.

I understand how you could see this as an alternate possibilty but you said, "But there is a more likely interpretation for this scripture."

Although it is possible; how can you say that it is more likely? what do you base the likelyhood on?

You also said, "She most likely was very dark skinned"

This is based on the fact that she was a shepherd's daughter? Most all of the followers of moses were out in the sun. I doubt Zipporah would be darker from the sun then the others.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by srm@Mar 29 2004, 09:28 PM

Although it is possible; how can you say that it is more likely? what do you base the likelyhood on?

You also said, "She most likely was very dark skinned"

This is based on the fact that she was a shepherd's daughter?

The fact that she was a shepardess is only one factor. The fact (or, in my case, belief) that she was called a Cushite makes it likely to me that she was dark skinned. Also, not knowing the national origin of Keturah leaves it open for the possibility. I've listened to and read many theories on this. This is the one that makes the most sense to me. As I've stated, it would not have been uncommon for a member of the royal house to have concubines, but Egyptians were mostly monogomous. It's possible that Moses' siblings only recognized Zipporah as his wife and the "Cushite" was a different woman. This doesn't seem likely to me though because, if Moses had an Ethiopian wife, he would have been married to her while he was still living in Egypt and not after he fled.

[srm]

The fact (or, in my case, belief) that she was called a Cushite makes it likely to me that she was dark skinned.

you are begging the question.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by srm+Mar 29 2004, 12:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (srm @ Mar 29 2004, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -curvette@Mar 29 2004, 12:38 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:11 PM

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most?  Well moses would have been dark skinned too.  What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

Why would Moses have been dark skinned? He was Hebrew.

for the same reason that most semetic people are dark skinned.

So, Jesus would have been dark skinned, too, eh?

Then why all the reddish/blond blue-eyed light skinned northern European looking of Jesus pictures in all the mormon chapels that have been distributed by THE CHURCH?

Eh?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bizabra+Mar 31 2004, 09:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Mar 31 2004, 09:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by -curvette@Mar 29 2004, 12:38 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:11 PM

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most?  Well moses would have been dark skinned too.  What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

Why would Moses have been dark skinned? He was Hebrew.

for the same reason that most semetic people are dark skinned.

So, Jesus would have been dark skinned, too, eh?

Then why all the reddish/blond blue-eyed light skinned northern European looking of Jesus pictures in all the mormon chapels that have been distributed by THE CHURCH?

Eh?

Hey....good to see you again....LOL

What about this: Maybe ...really after all is said and done, the risen Christ is White...even if He was darker during His physical life...

And the picture we get is white because that is what people actually saw after His ressurrection....

Of course...like everything else I say....I don't know what I am talking about. LOL

[srm]

Originally posted by bizabra+Mar 31 2004, 09:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Mar 31 2004, 09:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by -curvette@Mar 29 2004, 12:38 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 29 2004, 12:11 PM

How many experts on the old testament does ti take before you can say most?  Well moses would have been dark skinned too.  What to most experts use as their proof text of what this means?

Why would Moses have been dark skinned? He was Hebrew.

for the same reason that most semetic people are dark skinned.

So, Jesus would have been dark skinned, too, eh?

Then why all the reddish/blond blue-eyed light skinned northern European looking of Jesus pictures in all the mormon chapels that have been distributed by THE CHURCH?

Eh?

people tend to make Jesus look like their culture.

Click

That said however, I think that you're mistaken. The following don't have 'reddish/blond blue-eyed light skinned' go to lds.org and check out the ensign covers from Apl 04 or jan & sept 03 or, or, or...well you get the picture.