Happiness and Misery Now

[james12]

Perhaps we don't disagree.  From the bit of your post that I quoted, I got the impression that you didn't think there would be an eternal reward for doing good things that you find hard to do here in mortality.  I don't think Elder Cook was saying that.

 

"I don't have to _wait_ to be happy" is not the same as "I won't be happy there unless I learn to be happy here".  I think Elder Cook was saying the first.  As for the second:

 

You wrote: "I must find true happiness now, in this life, or I will never find it in the eternities."  While that may be true in a broad, all-inclusive sense (you must find some true happiness in some righteous things here or you'll never find any true happiness in the eternities), I don't think it's true in specific instances.  For example: the previous statement about wearing glasses (I'm certain I don't need to be happy about needing glasses in mortality before I'll get happiness about not needing them in the eternities); or, maybe I've managed to learn to love sharing the gospel, but I haven't learned to love cleaning the church building - I don't think I'll be denied any eternal happiness just cuz I haven't figured out how to enjoy vacuuming the church - it's just something I'll work out later.

 

As for eternal rewards, try this blog post.  (Fixed that link.)

My statement about finding happiness now does indeed apply to specific instances. Let me take your wearing glasses example. What is it that you dislike about wearing glasses? You might say the frames, or the weight, or how they look. But I submit this is not ultimately the source of your dissatisfaction. Somewhere inside, you feel wronged by your circumstances. You feel that you should not have to wear glasses. You feel that if only you could change your external condition (ie remove the need for glasses permanently) you would find some deeper level of peace and satisfaction. But this cannot be. Contentment is not dependent on external circumstances. After all, the Lord gave you this situation. If you cannot come to peace with what he has given you now, then the core of that discontent will surely follow you into the eternal realm.

Edited December 2, 2015 by james12

[Guest MormonGator]

You are responsible for your own happiness.

One of our sons and his children wrote a list: The five rules of happiness:

1) Love

2) Laughter

3) Gratitude

4) Work

5) Forgiveness

If you are unhappy, I strongly suggest gratitude. It is impossible to be grateful and unhappy.

Lehi

 Memorize this. Superb. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by MormonGator

[Guest]

You are responsible for your own happiness.

One of our sons and his children wrote a list: The five rules of happiness:

1) Love

2) Laughter

3) Gratitude

4) Work

5) Forgiveness

If you are unhappy, I strongly suggest gratitude. It is impossible to be grateful and unhappy.

Lehi

 

I can make a guess as to who made this list.

 

#2: Not a problem in our home.

#4: "Working on it"  .

 

The other three are the things that we as a family have been praying for.  I realized we were not the home the Lord wanted us to be.  As Mrs. Carb and I discussed it we named Charity, Gratitude, and Forgiveness as the missing elements in our lives.

 

We've praying for them for several weeks.  I believe I'm actually feeling some changes in me and maybe some in the family as well.

 

That son and I are in completely different places in our lives.  Yet we lack the same things to make us happy.  I'd think that is saying something about this list.

[zil]

Let me take your wearing glasses example. What is it that you dislike about wearing glasses? You might say the frames, or the weight, or how they look. But I submit this is not ultimately the source of your dissatisfaction. Somewhere inside, you feel wronged by your circumstances. You feel that you should not have to wear glasses. You feel that if only you could change your external condition (ie remove the need for glasses permanently) you would find some deeper level of peace and satisfaction. But this cannot be. Contentment is not dependent on external circumstances. After all, the Lord gave you this situation. If you cannot come to peace with what he has given you now, then the core of that discontent will surely follow you into the eternal realm.

:) <-- my initial reaction to your post.

 

I don't care a hoot for the frames (weight, appearance, whatever) - well, that may not be true, I like them and can't find new ones like them, so I'm still wearing the same ones I bought in 1993-ish.

 

I don't consider myself "dissatisfied".  I don't feel wronged.  I don't feel like I don't deserve it.  I don't think I would have deeper peace or satisfaction if I could see perfectly without glasses.  All of that is childish and a waste of time and effort (I'm highly addicted to efficiency).

 

I have never once thought "it's unfair that I need glasses" or asked "why me?" or "why did God give me bad eyesight (that meanie)?" (I'm not even sure it was a deliberate act so much as a natural consequence of mortality.  That we're mortal is a deliberate act, but I don't think God sat around saying, "Now, what do I need to do to ensure she has poor eyesight."  He knew it would happen, but that's not the same as intentionally causing it.  Maybe He did plan it deliberately, and if so, that's fine by me.)

 

Whatever the facts, I've never thought of my bad eyesight as anything other than a natural consequence of genetics.  If it was a "gift trial" so I could learn something, I sure hope it's something I can learn without deliberate thought, cuz I've got better things to think about than my eyesight.  Am I happy about having poor eyesight ("Oh hooray, I'm blind as a bat until I put on these glasses."), no.  Am I upset / miserable / unhappy / dissatisfied about having poor eyesight ("Woe is me, curse these spectacles!"), no (see above).  Do I recognize blessings in relation to my eyesight, of course! ("Hallelujah, I'm not living in a time or place where corrective lenses aren't an option." and "I am so grateful I have vision and that it can be corrected with eyeglasses.")

 

I think it's important to point out that just cuz you're not happy about something doesn't mean you're unhappy about it either (even if that does read like a paradox (another of my favorite things)).

 

"Peace" is not the same as "Contentment" is not the same as "Happiness" is not the same as "Reward".  You keep switching up the emotion / term without warning us first.

 

I would say I'm mostly at peace.  I am more than content, I'm quite happy.  I have oodles of rewards here and now, and waiting for me if I can hold out to the end.

 

NONE of that means I won't be really, really happy when the day comes that I no longer need to wear glasses.

 

And eyeglasses weren't the point.  It was an example of how we can expect happiness in the next life, without necessarily gaining a corresponding happiness in this life.  My expectation was that you would abstract my example into ones more meaningful for you.  (But if you feel like fasting and praying for my eyesight to be miraculously perfected any next second, I won't complain. )

[james12]

:) <-- my initial reaction to your post.

I don't care a hoot for the frames (weight, appearance, whatever) - well, that may not be true, I like them and can't find new ones like them, so I'm still wearing the same ones I bought in 1993-ish.

I don't consider myself "dissatisfied". I don't feel wronged. I don't feel like I don't deserve it. I don't think I would have deeper peace or satisfaction if I could see perfectly without glasses. All of that is childish and a waste of time and effort (I'm highly addicted to efficiency).

I have never once thought "it's unfair that I need glasses" or asked "why me?" or "why did God give me bad eyesight (that meanie)?" (I'm not even sure it was a deliberate act so much as a natural consequence of mortality. That we're mortal is a deliberate act, but I don't think God sat around saying, "Now, what do I need to do to ensure she has poor eyesight." He knew it would happen, but that's not the same as intentionally causing it. Maybe He did plan it deliberately, and if so, that's fine by me.)

Whatever the facts, I've never thought of my bad eyesight as anything other than a natural consequence of genetics. If it was a "gift trial" so I could learn something, I sure hope it's something I can learn without deliberate thought, cuz I've got better things to think about than my eyesight. Am I happy about having poor eyesight ("Oh hooray, I'm blind as a bat until I put on these glasses."), no. Am I upset / miserable / unhappy / dissatisfied about having poor eyesight ("Woe is me, curse these spectacles!"), no (see above). Do I recognize blessings in relation to my eyesight, of course! ("Hallelujah, I'm not living in a time or place where corrective lenses aren't an option." and "I am so grateful I have vision and that it can be corrected with eyeglasses.")

I think it's important to point out that just cuz you're not happy about something doesn't mean you're unhappy about it either (even if that does read like a paradox (another of my favorite things)).

"Peace" is not the same as "Contentment" is not the same as "Happiness" is not the same as "Reward". You keep switching up the emotion / term without warning us first.

I would say I'm mostly at peace. I am more than content, I'm quite happy. I have oodles of rewards here and now, and waiting for me if I can hold out to the end.

NONE of that means I won't be really, really happy when the day comes that I no longer need to wear glasses.

And eyeglasses weren't the point. It was an example of how we can expect happiness in the next life, without necessarily gaining a corresponding happiness in this life. My expectation was that you would abstract my example into ones more meaningful for you. (But if you feel like fasting and praying for my eyesight to be miraculously perfected any next second, I won't complain. )

I was likewise using your example in the abstract. Take another look at my post in this light. I think there are some important truths there.

[zil]

My statement about finding happiness now does indeed apply to specific instances. Let me take your wearing glasses example. What is it that you dislike about wearing glasses? You might say the frames, or the weight, or how they look. But I submit this is not ultimately the source of your dissatisfaction. Somewhere inside, you feel wronged by your circumstances. You feel that you should not have to wear glasses. You feel that if only you could change your external condition (ie remove the need for glasses permanently) you would find some deeper level of peace and satisfaction. But this cannot be. Contentment is not dependent on external circumstances. After all, the Lord gave you this situation. If you cannot come to peace with what he has given you now, then the core of that discontent will surely follow you into the eternal realm.

 

If it would be accurate to say that all the "you" instances in your statement are meant to be interpreted as "one" (not as "you, zil"), then ok, I'll look at it that way.  My impression was that you meant "you, zil"; if not, nevermind that last post. :)

 

So, abstracting the above, certainly, there are people who struggle with the circumstances of their lives - hopefully not with something as simple as needing glasses (unless they're in one of those situations where they can't get them), but about more difficult circumstances.  I am blessed not to have that sort of trial - other types most definitely, but not "circumstances beyond my control" -type trials, so I don't feel terribly qualified to comment on this beyond the obvious: For someone in such a situation, finding peace with those circumstances is, of course, very important, and will lead to greater happiness in this life.  And, conversely, constant negativity about those circumstances will lead the opposite direction.

 

But as I said, that seems obvious, so what am I missing?

 

(PS: The talk immediately before Elder Cook's seems very applicable to the idea of happiness in this life and rewards in eternity.)

Edited December 3, 2015 by zil