Amym73

Historical non biblical references about Jesus

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Unless your wife really does keep her fingers a millimeter above the paper (rare), she doesn't have to have a hooded nib fountain pen.  (For that matter, I highly doubt, from what you've said, that she'd like a fountain pen at all.)

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2 hours ago, zil said:

Mythville, dude.

Unless she's left-handed and a side-writer, the only time she's getting ink on her fingers is when she decides to have ink-ventures.  And unless you're going to spend the rest of your life refilling her 0.5mm rollerball cartridges with [some other ink], she's gonna have an ink-cident eventually - when refilling.

I guess I'm just a clutz, then.  I didn't think I was (except when I'm trying).  I went through a calligraphy phase for two years and I could never write anything of a significant length without getting my hands inked.

I'd expect the ink to get on hands during the refill phase.  But that is a jolly lot more infrequent than writing in a planner.

2 hours ago, zil said:

#4 - you would wait to ask this question until I'd thrown all the G-2s in the trash.  G-2s, BTW, are not rollerballs, they're gel pens.

Yup, I did that on purpose.  I was thinking "yup Zil's realy into the fountain pens now.  I bet she trashed all her G-2s.  Now's the time to ask" :D  No worries, I've got plenty of G-2s.  Maybe I just need to find a true rollerball 0.5mm.  Hmm.

I really don't know the technical difference between gel pens and rollerballs.  I used to think that gel pens were the "milky" consistency of ink.  But these are not milky.  So, please enlighten me, dear ink muse.

2 hours ago, zil said:
  • Buy an Extra Fine (05) G2 (or 12, the refill will wear out eventually) Done.  And they're surprisingly resilient for a cheap pen.
  • Figure out how to empty the 05 G2 of it's undesirable ink Easy.  Take out the cartridge.
  • Figure out how to get the purple G2 ink into the 05 cartridge Nix that in favor of...
    • Or, buy a Montblanc Amethyst rollerball, and figure out how to get its ink into the G2 05 cartridge and see if that works (rollerball ink is thinner - more liquid - than gel ink, and may gush right out of that cartridge (you may want to get an Ultra Fine G2 to test)).  No, there is a hack for the Mont Blanc cartridge.  Take an emery board to the cap until it fits into the G2 casing.  You need only shave off about 1/3mm.
  • Figure out how much that blob of gunk at the top of the ink matters, and if so, how to replace it.  ---

NOTE: There are a billion different pens with the same sort of grip as G2s.  You might have more luck looking at a different brand:

Color and refillability are the key.  If any of them actually have the desired color, problem solved.  No further search required.  I guess I could go ahead and buy a bunch and start testing.

 

2 hours ago, zil said:

NOTE 2: It's possible the reason she likes this grip is because she's only ever tried other grips in equally small diameters, and a larger, hourglass grip, even though it's hard plastic, would be more comfortable.  On the other hand, it sounds like she's trying to stuff it into a pre-manufactured space and those tend to barely be large enough for a #2 pencil.

I'm the one trying to stuff things together.  I'm only doing this because I can't seem to find a pen of any type that has the required features.

I'm beginning to feel compelled to go to the store to buy a crappy pen and put De Atramentis Aubergine in it to see what happens.... <sigh>sounds fancy.  Let me know.

I have in my back pocket, the only rollerball worth using (uni-ball deluxe). I'm typing one-handed as the tip of the black one is held to paper.  And the paper was perfectly happy to suck ink right out of it.  (Just not as quickly as it will from a fountain pen.)  Frankly, except ballpoints and gel pens, where you have to force the ink out of the pen, I don't know of any pen that wouldn't do this.

Yes, I'm aware that rollerballs do that as well.  But my understanding/experience has been that it does not do it as quickly as fountains.

 

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6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

calligraphy

calligraphy != fountain pens

Fountain pens are just pens.  They may or may not have a nib suitable for any given style of calligraphy.  Calligraphy is a style of writing.  It is most often done with dip nibs (where you dip a nib into ink - the ink is not integral to the pen).  I never saw a good calligrapher do a demo without ink all over their fingers.  With fountain pens, it's only refilling and mixing (or touching the nib, which there's no reason to do unless you're trying to adjust it while inked) which leads to inky fingers.

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yup, I did that on purpose.  I was thinking "yup Zil's realy into the fountain pens now.  I bet she trashed all her G-2s.  Now's the time to ask" :D  No worries, I've got plenty of G-2s.  Maybe I just need to find a true rollerball 0.5mm.  Hmm.

:) I may have 1 G2 left, by the phone in one bedroom.  If so, it will get experimented on.  Also, I've remembered that I have things which may be rollerballs that were anniversary / vendor-gift pens from work.  If so, they're gonna get tested when I get home. :)

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I really don't know the technical difference between gel pens and rollerballs.

The ink is the primary difference (gel ink is thicker and may be oil based (ballpoint is definitely oil based and is the thickest stuff), rollerball ink is liquid, and as far as I know, water based, like fountain pen ink - the liquidity of the ink is why they write so nicely).  What I don't know is if there's a construction difference around the ball to control the liquid ink vs let the thicker gel ink out.

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, there is a hack for the Mont Blanc cartridge.  Take an emery board to the cap until it fits into the G2 casing.  You need only shave off about 1/3mm.

Yes, I saw that video. :D But that's not going to get you the finer line.  (As far as I can tell, Montblanc don't make a 0.5 mm rollerball cartridge - as it turns out 07 is "fine", and "fine" is the smallest point Montblanc make.  Please note that European pens always have a fatter nib than Japanese / Asian pens.)

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Color and refillability are the key.  If any of them actually have the desired color, problem solved.  No further search required.  I guess I could go ahead and buy a bunch and start testing.

Each of the ones I linked to had a purple pen (body and ink).  The liquid ones would, I assume, be easiest to refill / replace with a different shade of purple fountain pen ink.  I know of two ways to refill pens which are not meant to be refilled - but let's save that until you find a pen you like.

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But my understanding/experience has been that it does not do it as quickly as fountains.

Correct.

I'll put my dash-cam to alternate use when I start tearing rollerball refills apart and let you know what comes of it.

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I think you should get her this pen. :D

Here's our progress so far...  1) This is our pen selection.  I chose the top one because it was dry and the cartridge is a Schmidt, which are known to be a good brand.  Note that it was dry not because I used it up, but because it dried out over time from evaporation.  I now know this makes it harder, so I recommend you use a new one, which should clean up faster.

2) In this image, we see the curved needle-nose pliers I used to pull the plug (visible in the last photo) out of the end of the cartridge.  Also, the syringe used for cleaning the empty cartridge.  My inky thumb - five of my fingers are inky right now.  And the two parts of the cartridge - the cartridge itself (with nib) and the spongy insert that I basically, carefully shook out over a steel sink (which won't stain).  See how one end is sort of white and pink?  That end has the ink rinsed out of it.  This is done by holding it under running water and letting the water push the ink out the other end.  (Note: the presence of a sponge is how you know it's a rollerball.  Gel and ballpoint pens have ink thick enough that it doesn't need anything to hold it back / help control the flow rate.)

3) This shows the cleaned sponge.  Note that I had to spend a long time cleaning the cartridge itself.  For this, running water wouldn't do it.  I used the syringe without the needle and held it so that it created a seal, and slowly forced water through and out the nib end.  Then rinsed, repeat, several times.  It was taking long enough that I used a pipe cleaner (photo 4) to scrub the inside of the cartridge, which helped.  I kept doing this until the water forced out the nib end was clear.  (When doing this, you should see water dripping out of two places - the nib / ball itself, and the breather hole - up higher on that skinny part of the tube - air-exchange is how ink flow is regulated.)

4) The final image shows the cleaned cartridge, one tip of the cleaned sponge, the little plug I pulled out of the end of the cartridge, one end of the syringe, the pipe cleaner, my rack of ink samples, and the necessary shot glass of chocolate chips to sustain me through this arduous process.

Now we need to let the cartridge and sponge (esp. sponge) dry so we don't end up with watery ink.  Once that's done, I'll put the sponge back, slowly drip ink into it (that might require more chocolate chips to give me patience), and then try to write with it.  (I may put a little in - drop or two - in the bottom before I put the sponge in so there's some by the nib, and the sponge can soak it up from the other end.)  I fear this will need to wait until tomorrow so that sponge has enough time to dry out.

PenSelection.jpg

PartialProgress.jpg

Clean.jpg

4.jpg

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OK, so I had stuck the cartridge and sponge vertically in a little glass, with paper towel at the bottom, so the paper towel would suck water out.  And it seemed like it had sucked all the water out, so I decided to ink it.  (It may or may not have been totally dry.  When doing this for real, I suggest erring on the side of waiting too long.)

Then I did as mentioned before - using the syringe, put in a little ink (this might be a mistake), then put in the sponge - had to shove it a bit to get it to go all the way (recommend noting its depth before removing).  Then I dripped ink in and waited for the sponge to soak it up - it soaked it up surprisingly fast - for a while.  It took less ink than I thought it would - maybe .5mL.  The ink was dripping out the nib before I noticed it and sucked what I could back off / out of the sponge.  Then I capped the back of the cartridge (thinking maybe it was dripping because the cap wasn't on (seems accurate as it then stopped dripping)).

IMPORTANT: if you do this, the pen must not be stored nib down (unless you want the pen cap to fill with ink).  Nib up is safe (though the ink may soak away from the nib and you'll have to wait for it to get back before you can write) and horizontal is good.

The image below is writing with the ink.  The top is good paper (24lb HP laser paper; ok for fountain pens) and the bottom is standard 20lb copy paper (which sucks ink).  I'd say the pen did well on both paper types (no bleeding, no feathering, very little spread on the copy paper).  It did NOT like actual fountain pen paper - the slick kind with a coating - had a hard time getting the ink to come out evenly.

Now the ink had already been diluted a little with water, but not this much, so using a rollerball definitely lightens the ink, so you should choose an ink that's really dark (where you're sure it's too dark).  Note that picking the desired ink and then darkening it with black will also mute the color, so it's better to just pick a dark color to begin with.  I recommend when looking at color samples that you look at the lightest part of the swab (not at the writing) and pick something where you like the light part of the swab and the dark part is too dark.

Dark Purples (available at either GouletPens.com or AndersonPens.com:

  • De Atramentis Aubergine / Alexander Hamilton
  • De Atramentis Blackcurrant
  • De Atramentis Elderberries (?)
  • De Atramentis Giacomo Puccini
  • Diamine Damson (?)
  • Diamine Grape
  • Noodler's Purple (?)
  • Noodler's Violet (?)
  • Cross Violet (?)

You do NOT want an iron gall ink, and watch out for anything with shimmering or sparkle in the name (or whether the description mentions glitter - that is so not going to work in a rollerball. :)

Finally, I still think your life will be much easier if your wife can settle for a commercially-available purple pen like the ones I linked.  Cuz pulling the end cap off the cartridge and dripping ink into it whenever it starts going dry (or using the other method) is gonna get old fast.  The only alternative I can see for using a custom ink color requires using a pen made for using bottled ink, and I couldn't find one of those in purple (and there are precious few rollerballs like that to begin with).

writing.jpg

ETA: Crappy cell phone photos - both look darker than reality - the ink is pretty pale in color.

Edited by zil

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After ~1.5 hours, I tested the pen again, but got distracted before uncapping, so it was nib down for about a minute (no more), and there was ink leaking, which is worse than a fountain pen, so definitely would not want to store one of these nib down.

After a night ~8.5 hours of lying on its side, it started up beautifully and is writing darker than last night, so I'm thinking it needed more time and somehow the ink naturally works its way toward the nib (you might want to note the way the sponge is positioned in case it's somehow designed for one-way flow (though that seems improbable to me).

The ink gets lighter and the line thinner after the first couple of words, then stays at a standard color / width for as long as I want to scribble with it (covered the back of a business-size envelope with scribbles and it kept up just fine, very consistent).

FWIW,

Liz

Edited by zil

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8 minutes ago, zil said:

After ~1.5 hours, I tested the pen again, but got distracted before uncapping, so it was nib down for about a minute (no more), and there was ink leaking, which is worse than a fountain pen, so definitely would not want to store one of these nib down.

After a night ~8.5 hours of lying on its side, it started up beautifully and is writing darker than last night, so I'm thinking it needed more time and somehow the ink naturally works its way toward the nib (you might want to note the way the sponge is positioned in case it's somehow designed for one-way flow (though that seems improbable to me).

The ink gets lighter and the line thinner after the first couple of words, then stays at a standard color / width for as long as I want to scribble with it (covered the back of a business-size envelope with scribbles and it kept up just fine, very consistent.

FWIW,

Liz

You're sounding more and more like Martha Stewart.  And I always thought of you as an Erma Bombeck type.

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On 11/7/2016 at 7:03 PM, zil said:

writing.jpg

ETA: Crappy cell phone photos - both look darker than reality - the ink is pretty pale in color.

Now I'm going to have to use this sample for handwriting analysis.

Edited by Guest

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6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Now I'm going to have to use this sample for handwriting analysis.

That's my "scribble" font.  I also have "print", "good" and "flex" fonts. :)  (Most people only have 3 fonts, but that's because most people don't have flex pens.)

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After further experimentation this morning, I think the leaking last night was because I put ink straight in before the sponge.  Holding the pen nib down for extended periods does not cause leaking today.  So, if you're gonna do it, don't put any ink in before putting the sponge in.

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1 hour ago, zil said:

After further experimentation this morning, I think the leaking last night was because I put ink straight in before the sponge.  Holding the pen nib down for extended periods does not cause leaking today.  So, if you're gonna do it, don't put any ink in before putting the sponge in.

I'm almost afraid to break the news.  But my wife found two things about the G-2 that she is currently using:

1) If she just writes a little more slowly, the ink comes out in the color she desires.

2) Having looked at amethysts more closely, she realizes that the thinner sections of amethyst look like the "fast" color and the thicker section look like the "slower" color -- pretty much what you'd expect.

So, she is perfectly happy using the G-2 without any modification or hacks.

But I found this entire conversation very enlightening.  I believe I'm going to get a fountain pen of my own because of this threadjack.  I'll try not to get ink on my fingers.  So, the most important question is: Were the chocolate chips milk chocolate or semi-sweet?

 

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22 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But I found this entire conversation very enlightening.  I believe I'm going to get a fountain pen of my own because of this threadjack.  I'll try not to get ink on my fingers.  So, the most important question is: Were the chocolate chips milk chocolate or semi-sweet?

Well, it was educational.  I've since learned that leaving it uncapped for 15 minutes doesn't seem to dry it out (ETA: that would dry out a fountain pen - if it just sat there, not in use).  But somewhere up there, I did say you would all be happier if she could content herself with a commercial product, so I'm glad she can. :)

The chocolate chips were milk chocolate, of course.  Meant for direct consumption without cookies or other baked goods delaying matters.

I just PM'ed you about the fountain pen.

Edited by zil

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In summation: Jesus was real and some people wrote some things so we have an outside view  of his life and early Christians practices and that is really cool, ALSO, there are even more things to consider about fountain and roller ball pens and especially when trying to create a 0.5mm pen with amethyst colored ink and we all now know much much MUCH more about them! Therefore ... Jesus loves fountain pens (and chocolate chips)! 

That was a pretty entertaining threadjack @zil and @Carborendum ! BTW, I vote for semi-sweet chips!  Thank you for putting me in a great mood this morning. When I checked my email and it had something about pens on this post , I was like, what? (which then made me log in and read, which resulted in a laugh and smile).

<3 Happy voting day, please use blue or black ink! Any pen will do!

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