Guest Starsky Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Teachings of Irenaeus on deification: Irenaeus - Adv. Her. 4.Pref.4/ 4.1.1 ...there is none other called God by the Scriptures except the Father of all, and the Son, and those who possess the adoption. Since, therefore, this is sure and steadfast, that no other God or Lord was announced by the Spirit, except Him who, as God, rules over all, together with His Word, and those who receive the Spirit of adoption. (ANF 1.463). Irenaeus - Adv. Her. 4.33.4 ... how can they be saved unless it was God who wrought out their salvation upon earth? Or how shall man pass into God, unless God has [first] passed into man? (ANF 1.507). Irenaeus - Adv. Her. 4.38.3-4 His wisdom [is shown] in His having made created things parts of one harmonious and consistent whole; and those things which, through His super-eminent kindness, receive growth and a long period of existence, do reflect the glory of the uncreated One, of that God who bestows what is good ungrudgingly. For from the very fact of these things having been created, [it follows] that they are not uncreated; but by their continuing in being throughout a long course of ages, they shall receive a faculty* of the Uncreated, through the gratuitous bestowal of eternal existence upon them by God. ...man, a created and organized being, is rendered after the image and likeness of the uncreated God... we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods...He shall overcome the substance of created nature. For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God, having received the knowledge of good and evil. (ANF 1.521-522). Irenaeus - Adv. Her. 5.Pref ...the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself. (ANF 1.526) Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Participation in God was carried so far by Irenaeus as to amount to deification. “We were not made gods in the beginning,†he says, “ but at first men, then at length gods.†This is not to be understood as mere rhetorical exaggeration on Irenaeus’ part. He meant the statement to be taken literally. Salvation he believed involves the transformation of human nature into divine, that is, of mortal nature into immortal, immortality being the distinguishing quality of deity. Thus salvation means deification in a strict sense. (Arthur Cushman McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, vol. 1, p. 141.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Irenaeus speaks actually without embarrassment of the point that we men are to become Gods…"For the Logos became man and the Son of God became the Son of Man for this purpose, ina ho anthrOpos tov logos chOrEsas kai tEn huiothesiav labOv, hios genEtai theou." This means that the God-like Logos has become man so that man could become God’s son, absorbing in himself the fullness of the diety (the Logos): E tOs anthrOpos chOrEsei eis theov ei mE o theos echOrEthE eis avthrOtov? …But with Ireanaeus the idea goes much further. For him it depends on the whole marvelous mystical unity in which God’s nature and that of man are joined, as an example in the Son of God, vere deus et vere homo, and in imatation of the example in the members of the church…Again and again he proclaims the marvelous uiothesia (adoptio) which makes men gods; the enOsis and koivOnia of deity and humanity: the weak human nature which begins to bear and grasp the fullness of deity; God and humanity united into one! (Wilhelm Bousset, Kyrios Christos, pp. 423-425.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 So, now we know where JS got the idea? Didn't JS have ANY original ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Originally posted by Cal@Apr 24 2004, 10:46 AM So, now we know where JS got the idea? Didn't JS have ANY original ideas? No. see Ecs 1:9-11There is nothing new under the sun. That is why the LDS church is "RESTORED".The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Some people just have such a hard time realizing JS was a real prophet of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lash4160 Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Pretty good article and yes some people have a hard time beliving that JS was a prophet of God I for one knoe that he is :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Yes he is. And one day, will lead us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler+Apr 24 2004, 12:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Apr 24 2004, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Apr 24 2004, 10:46 AM So, now we know where JS got the idea? Didn't JS have ANY original ideas? No. see Ecs 1:9-11There is nothing new under the sun. That is why the LDS church is "RESTORED".The Traveler It may be, but I see no evidence that any ONE people, culture or "church" ever had ALL the stuff that the LDS church embodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 24 2004, 10:43 PM Some people just have such a hard time realizing JS was a real prophet of God. And some people have a hard time seeing the reasons why he wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:12 PM Yes he is. And one day, will lead us again. Will he make us all practice polygamy again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Apr 28 2004, 03:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Apr 28 2004, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Traveler@Apr 24 2004, 12:40 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Apr 24 2004, 10:46 AM So, now we know where JS got the idea? Didn't JS have ANY original ideas? No. see Ecs 1:9-11There is nothing new under the sun. That is why the LDS church is "RESTORED".The Traveler It may be, but I see no evidence that any ONE people, culture or "church" ever had ALL the stuff that the LDS church embodies. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Apr 28 2004, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Apr 28 2004, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:12 PM Yes he is. And one day, will lead us again. Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliejalago Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:42 PM Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. I think whether or not the Church will practice polygamy again is debatable. (On the law of consecration I agree with you.) What is your source for answering a hearty "Yup!" on this point? I am not saying that the Lord couldn't command it again, but that is not the same as saying that He definitely will reinstate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 29, 2004 Report Share Posted April 29, 2004 Originally posted by juliejalago+Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (juliejalago @ Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:42 PM Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. I think whether or not the Church will practice polygamy again is debatable. (On the law of consecration I agree with you.) What is your source for answering a hearty "Yup!" on this point? I am not saying that the Lord couldn't command it again, but that is not the same as saying that He definitely will reinstate it. If I had a certain book, I could give you the actual quotes which make these statements from John Taylor, Brigham Young, and Wilford Woodruff.But I don't.There are many prophesies which state that JS will be the one to rule again under Christ in the Millenium, and that anyone being allowed into this Zionistic society will have to conform to the higher laws of polygamy and consecration, or they will not be counted worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 04:40 PM So, now we know where JS got the idea? Didn't JS have ANY original ideas? No. see Ecs 1:9-11There is nothing new under the sun. That is why the LDS church is "RESTORED".The Traveler It may be, but I see no evidence that any ONE people, culture or "church" ever had ALL the stuff that the LDS church embodies. Exactly! So how is it that the "true church" was restored when it never existed in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 04:42 PM Yes he is. And one day, will lead us again. Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. And what if I only want my one wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by juliejalago+Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (juliejalago @ Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:42 PM Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. I think whether or not the Church will practice polygamy again is debatable. (On the law of consecration I agree with you.) What is your source for answering a hearty "Yup!" on this point? I am not saying that the Lord couldn't command it again, but that is not the same as saying that He definitely will reinstate it. Do you think the GA's want to see polygamy become legal again? If gays can marry, it might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 30, 2004 Report Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky+Apr 28 2004, 11:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Starsky @ Apr 28 2004, 11:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -juliejalago@Apr 28 2004, 07:19 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Apr 28 2004, 03:42 PM Will he make us all practice polygamy again? YUP! and live the law of consecration...the lucky thing for y'all is that only those who are willing to live these things will be under JS rule. I think whether or not the Church will practice polygamy again is debatable. (On the law of consecration I agree with you.) What is your source for answering a hearty "Yup!" on this point? I am not saying that the Lord couldn't command it again, but that is not the same as saying that He definitely will reinstate it. If I had a certain book, I could give you the actual quotes which make these statements from John Taylor, Brigham Young, and Wilford Woodruff.But I don't.There are many prophesies which state that JS will be the one to rule again under Christ in the Millenium, and that anyone being allowed into this Zionistic society will have to conform to the higher laws of polygamy and consecration, or they will not be counted worthy. Yeah, and there is a quote by your precious BY that says that Blacks won't have the priesthood until the millenium. So much for the credibility of your prophetic writings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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