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[Dale]

hi, well as you know i have had some people from the mormon church been visting me and so far so good until i read and heard some things about which the mormons believe which i didnt know about, now i want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt but if these things are true then my personal beliefs will no longer let me pursue this line of relgion.

wondered if you could just tell me if these things you believe to be true?

did God have sex with mary ?

do you think jesus was created?

do you think jesus was married not to just 1 wife but maybe 3?

do you think that you will become gods when you die?

do you think women will be pregnant for etenrnity (in which to populate your own planets???)

do you think God had to earn his status of God?

now if this is what you believe then that truly is your right and i will say no more on the subject, however for me these things i do not believe and will not be a part of any church that does.

any way thanks in advance for your help

I am a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now called Community of Christ). We are not the same denomination as the LDS. I will try and answer your questions. I don't share all my LDS friends belief's, but I am informed on these topic's. FAIR and FAIR Wiki are more articulate on giving answers from an LDS perspective though.

1.LDS have had some 19th century denials of the virgin birth. But quote's from book's like Mormon Doctrine, and Doctrines of Salvation are abused to say LDS leaders believe God had sex with Mary. These book's actually affirm in other quotes the virgin birth, and the literal sonship of Jesus at the same time. The LDS belief is God made his son his literal son miracelously without the need for a sex act. I have heard other more scientific methods like artificial insemnination in combination with the miracelous power of the Holy Ghost as the means for Jesus conception.

http://www.fairlds.org and it's FAIR Wiki has some well written responses to this issue. The Topical Guide has atleast one good printable brochure on the topic.

2. Evangelicals blieve Jesus Christ in Collossian's 1:15 based on a word study of Firstborn means pre-eminent only. LDS defenders like Richard Hopkins did a counter-word study have demonstrated Firstborn does mean first-born. His Biblical Mormonism book get's into his position. The intelligence of Jesus possibly his undeveloped ego, or personality was uncreated in their belief. At some point his spirit body was created to house that intelligence.

3.Some LDS person's have believed Jesus was married and was a polygamist. It's not LDS belief of today though. Jesus was called Rabbi a title reserved for married men. Jesus in John 11 call's out a woman in mourning which only a husband could do. Jesus was in charge of the wine in John 2 which was the bridegroom's duty. The early part of the chapter treat's him as an invited guest, but some corrupt scribe wanting an unmarried Jesus could have tampered with the text. (Rev.22:18,19) I am uncertain of the scholarly reliability of my trivia I got out of an LDS book called the Gainsayer's, but it is interesting. Darrick T. Evenson later became a vitriolic, and strange apostate from the LDS Church, but his book is still good.

4.Isa.43:10 might prevent becoming God's, but maybe no so much. Those who wrote the Trinity concept had to explain how the Father, Son. and Holy Spirit could be person's without being three modern person's. So they explained the person of God were like the three person's an actor in a play played with face mask's. The distinct centeres of consciousness within God are not person's as we are. LDS would feel such an explanation is bogus, and that the three person's of the Godhead think for themselve's as much as three of us do. That would be the Bible mixing mono-theism, and poly-theism. Once it's admitted the Bible is not entirely absolutely mono-thestic LDS can pretty much believe anything they want. The person's of the Trinity, or Godhead look like three smart person's to me nothing like the three dumb person's of an actor in a play.

Whenever I read Anti-Mormon criticisms of LDS beliefs on deification based on Isa. 43:10 I smile. I don't think LDS need to resolve Isa. 43:10 with theit beliefs in deification, or Isa.43:10. If I were them I would honestly confess the contradiction, and turn my attack to the latin word persona. The word has to do with an actor, and his face masks in a play. A book entitled Understanding The Trinity by Evangelical scholar Allister E. McGrath explain's the creedal definition of person's and person better than I could. LDS reject the latin word persona and I honestly was surprised the issues were that simple as a word, and definition.. They prefer instead to think of the three as modern person's.

5.LDS do believe we are literal spirit children of God. Try searching for Van Hale's Mormon Miscellaneous website on Google. He has an online printable article on the topic.

6. I am not sure this is clearly LDS belief. It could be, but I myself don't care. The man part of God had to earn his status. But Jesus was God prior to his status on earth. Perhap's in LDS belief his spirit body was deified. But he uncreated parts may already have been Deity. (Psalm 90:2) Though with Psalmp 90:2 I read it with Psalm 103:17. It's possible to experience something for everlasting but have it have a beginning. The word comes from if I recall right the Hebrew word Olam which refer's to a long, but hidden period of time which is uncertain as to it's temporal duration. Nothing in Psalm 90:2 really prevents God from becoming God at some point.

I am not sure I agree with all LDS teaching's on this subject myself. But I wouldn't tell anybody not to join the LDS Church over any of these issues. I found answer's to these issues either in current LDS apologetic's, or created my own.

[hobbes]

No actually reading the Book of Mormon might help you get a better understanding of the Mormon church. Um and maybe going to visit an LDS service. Hmmm but those things wouldn't be quite as fun as dragging up old quotes that don't make any sense. Reading snippets from what church leaders in the past have said will just confuse you more because like I said earlier you can't have the meat before the milk.

aren't those "old quotes that don't make any sense" from prophets who "would never lead you astray?"

most of mormon doctrine is NOT in the book of mormon as i read it...and i've read it and been to mormon services. most doctrine comes from d+c. would you agree?

[Guest Seraphim]

aren't those "old quotes that don't make any sense" from prophets who "would never lead you astray?"

most of mormon doctrine is NOT in the book of mormon as i read it...and i've read it and been to mormon services. most doctrine comes from d+c. would you agree?

Hobbes: This board is for fellowship and congenial discussion with those who are interested in learning about our faith. If you are interested in debate, I suggest www.mormonapologetics.org.

Seraphim

[avatar4321]

aren't those "old quotes that don't make any sense" from prophets who "would never lead you astray?"

most of mormon doctrine is NOT in the book of mormon as i read it...and i've read it and been to mormon services. most doctrine comes from d+c. would you agree?

No. Not at all. The doctrines of the creation, fall, atonment, pre earth life, need for authority, agency of man, need for faith, hope, charity. The necessity of the sacrifice of Christ. The spirit world after death, the resurrection from the dead, the born agian process are all found in the Book of Mormon. That is clearly by far most mormon doctrine.