General Authority Affect

[Cal]

Originally posted by UtahStateRunner@May 14 2004, 07:23 AM

Wow ... I cannot believe anything I am reading in this post!

First: I think the talks given by the General Authorities are amazing. In fact, in my spare time I literally read conference talks and other materials by the General Authorities. Something I learned, if you are just listening at Conference because that is what you are supposed to do, yeah, you are going to be bored. But if you listen to find answers to questions in your own life, the talks are simply amazing.

SECONDLY: I cannot believe anyone is questioning who is called OF GOD to be an Apostle or General Authority. Did you simply forget that? THEY ARE CALLED OF GOD .

Third: do you really think a man of 30 years of age can have the WISDOM and EXPERIENCE of a man that is in his 50's, 60's and older? Joseph Smith went into the sacred grove as a boy and came out a prophet, this is absolutely entirely true. However, people didn't live as long back then. So the men WERE younger. I guess it still comes down to, it doesn't matter who, age, or race ... THEY ARE CALLED OF GOD.

Are you reading challenged? None of the posts said anything about NOT being called of God. What you are reading is the opinion of a pretty good cross section of mormon thought--Starsky is pretty mainline: Curvy is faithful, but a very "thinking" mormon; Snow is an intellectual, but believing mormon; the others may be a little less than TBM, but ALL (including me, "Mr. Bleeding Heart Liberal") think that GA talks have gotten BORING. Sure there are a few exceptions--but I grew up hearing people like LeGrand Richards, Marion D. Hanks, Theodore Tuttle and many others give GREAT talks with a delivery that was THEIR OWN, and not some contrived monotone designed to convey GRAVITAS more than sincerity. (personally I have a theory as to why they, including local leaders, have adopted this cookie cutter delivery--but most of you won't like it, so unless someone asks I'm going to keep my mouth, ahh, fingers shut)

The problem with SOME TBM's is that they are so awestruck with the "called of God" thing that they can't admit anything that sounds even remotely bluntly honest.

[Cal]

Originally posted by UtahStateRunner+May 14 2004, 09:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (UtahStateRunner @ May 14 2004, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@May 14 2004, 10:14 AM

USR - Maybe you should re-read your original post. My perception of your post is that you did imply that you thought other posters were wrong or inaccurate in their perception of the GA's talks because one should not think that GA's could possibly be boring - They're called of God!!!!

It seems it was your post that was disagreeing in the first place.  

M.

Maureen:

I am not sure where you are from ... but I am from Logan, Utah. And here in Logan, we don't take the emotion of being surprised to mean "YOU ARE WRONG." It is just to mean as ... something that is unexpected, unanticipated.

Also, the comment of "they are called of God" as you will see, was in reference to when some people were saying there should be more ethnic people on the Quorum of the 12. In that case, since they are called of God, if you think who is called to the 12 is wrong, you are arguing with God. And THAT is wrong. I will stand behind that statement 100%.

I am still surprised (which remember, is not defined as "think you are wrong") that people find the GA's boring. After all, the are the Lord's mouth piece. The are disciples of Christ and are to act as Christ would if He were here. So in sense, are they not saying they find Christ's words boring?

I am not saying they are wrong, just giving a different perspective of my own.

Was Bruce R. McKonkie Christ's mouth peace when he refered to the Catholic Church as the Great and Abominable Church? Was he Christ's mouth peace when he proclaimed that Blacks were inherently inferior because they were all less than valient in the pre-existance? Was Joseph Fielding Smith God's mouth piece when he boldly proclaimed to the whole church that "man would never walk on the moon?"

Do I need to go on? My point: GA's are men of flesh just like the whole rest of us poor slobs. They are no better or worse, except that some of them could stand a BYU class called Speech 101. (Don't get me wrong--most of them are accomplished, educated people that have the best intentions, as far as I can tell, but let's not deify them--they don't deserve that. Besides, it makes us sound like some mindless cult when we do.)

[Cal]

Originally posted by Traveler@May 14 2004, 06:22 PM

Thank you Snow this has been a rather interesting thread.  It is interesting the color according to the poster.  When I say color I refer to the spectrum of what a person thinks is important, what has value, what is the basis of believable, what is desired, what is boring ect. 

Just a side note.  Many years ago I attempted to become a teacher (never could pass the spelling test).  I specilized in exceptional learners.  In other words the very bright and how to teach them.  One of the great problems is that most teachers do not know how to identify exceptional learners.  One thing, contrary to popular opinion the very bright are seldom bored and find stuff of great intrest to them out of almost nothing or things that would bore normal people.  The shorter the attention span the less sharp the brain. 

It can be funny when a very birght person attempts to explain something they find of great importance.  The less inteligent become so lost in the boring details that there is almost no communications.  The opposit happens when a less intellilgent person explains something to a bright person.  The bright person will start filling in all the gaps until the slower person gives up becomes bored and wants to change the subbject. 

In short - what someone finds intertaining is a major indication of their intelligence.  BTW 90% of TV programming is directed toward lower that average inteligence.  Asking a person about their favorit music, TV program and other intertainment is a major indicator of their intelligence.

Is this not fun?

The Traveler

And what? You think you are so much more intelligent than Snow, or the rest of us, and that is why you find most of the GA talks interesting? What a pompous ###### (as in "Jesus road into Jerusalem on his ######")? Perhaps a little harsh, but I think you deserved that one.

(I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about when you said most teachers can't recognize an exceptional learner. I've been a Chemistry and Physics teacher for 32 years, and in all my conversations with other teachers, it has NEVER been apparent to me that most of them can't identify the needs of a bright child. If you had had any experience with the whole spectrum of kids you would know that bright kids are the EASIEST to teach. As a general rule they respond to the teacher's agenda much better than slower kids. I have taught both. Have you?)

Oh, and thank you for illuminating us all on the intellectual level of most TV programming. We would NEVER have fiqured that out on our own.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Cal@May 15 2004, 12:12 PM

(as in "Jesus road into Jerusalem on his ######")

Sorry, that part of the Bible was apparently translated incorrectly.

[Guest Starsky]

UtahStateRunner: I am still surprised (which remember, is not defined as "think you are wrong") that people find the GA's boring. After all, the are the Lord's mouth piece. The are disciples of Christ and are to act as Christ would if He were here. So in sense, are they not saying they find Christ's words boring?

Well J. Golden was called by God and he wasn't boring.... I think the Lord would like you to use all of your talents and aquire even more....talents for speaking and actually reaching His children....

I don't see a man magnifying his calling if he is boring the people to tears or sleep...

[Guest Starsky]

Traveler: In short - what someone finds intertaining is a major indication of their intelligence. BTW 90% of TV programming is directed toward lower that average inteligence. Asking a person about their favorit music, TV program and other intertainment is a major indicator of their intelligence.

LOL well that explains why I can't stand TV these days. I always like the shows when they are new, but after a few weeks they become so repetitive...I guess the ending and next moves before they happen...very boring.

As to the intelligent finding something interesting in anything...well...I can't agree. After hearing the same thing over and over again....having nothing insightful or mind worthy....to find....it becomes boring...just like TV.

I believe we can have a happy situation when the talks are geared to meet everyone where they are....and when they are given and received through the Spirit....then there isn't anything boring.....but if they are not given by the Spirit, they can be tedious and boring to the Spiritually hungry...

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Cal@May 15 2004, 11:12 AM

(I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about when you said most teachers can't recognize an exceptional learner. I've been a Chemistry and Physics teacher for 32 years, and in all my conversations with other teachers, it has NEVER been apparent to me that most of them can't identify the needs of a bright child. If you had had any experience with the whole spectrum of kids you would know that bright kids are the EASIEST to teach. As a general rule they respond to  the teacher's agenda much better than slower kids. I have taught both. Have you?)

Oh, and thank you for illuminating us all on the intellectual level of most TV programming. We would NEVER have fiqured that out on our own.

Cal I am not talking about good or bright students. I am talking about true genius, say of the level of Nikola Tesla. Since you teach physics you should have an idea who Nikola Tesla was?

In your classes, how would you identify a Nikola Tesla that may have some disagreements with many teachers conclusions (including yours) and be vocal about it? How would you identify true genius that disagrees with you from a bright student (above average but not exceptional) that agrees with you?

Is it possible that a Nikola Tesla would learn to keep his mouth shut in your class?

As for TV you missed the point. TV is intended to be intertaining - in contrast to talks by GA's. I thought you would pick up that idea and expand on it. Since you are a teacher maybe you would like another shot at it.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Starsky@May 15 2004, 06:18 PM

Traveler: In short - what someone finds intertaining is a major indication of their intelligence. BTW 90% of TV programming is directed toward lower that average inteligence. Asking a person about their favorit music, TV program and other intertainment is a major indicator of their intelligence.

LOL well that explains why I can't stand TV these days. I always like the shows when they are new, but after a few weeks they become so repetitive...I guess the ending and next moves before they happen...very boring.

As to the intelligent finding something interesting in anything...well...I can't agree. After hearing the same thing over and over again....having nothing insightful or mind worthy....to find....it becomes boring...just like TV.

I believe we can have a happy situation when the talks are geared to meet everyone where they are....and when they are given and received through the Spirit....then there isn't anything boring.....but if they are not given by the Spirit, they can be tedious and boring to the Spiritually hungry...

Starsky: Very good response. Not just because I agree with your conclusions (because I don't) but because your response displays above average intelligence. Which causes me to reflect on my conclusions. I suspect that you will soon find most post on this forum (including mine) somewhat booring (repetative) and move on.

Good luck with your journey.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Originally posted by curvette@May 14 2004, 07:32 PM

You are the most condescending person on this board.

Do you consider condescending a good thing or a bad thing?

Would you prefer that I not express my opinions?

If I was more friendly would you consider that more or less condescending?

Are you disapointed with my posts because I communicate too poorly or because I communicate all to well?

The Traveler

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Traveler@May 16 2004, 03:33 PM

Are you disapointed with my posts because I communicate too poorly or because I communicate all to well?

Disappointed? Your pontifications always exceed my wildest expectations of narcissistic snobbery. Keep it up!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Traveler+May 16 2004, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ May 16 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@May 15 2004, 11:12 AM

(I seriously doubt you know what you are talking about when you said most teachers can't recognize an exceptional learner. I've been a Chemistry and Physics teacher for 32 years, and in all my conversations with other teachers, it has NEVER been apparent to me that most of them can't identify the needs of a bright child. If you had had any experience with the whole spectrum of kids you would know that bright kids are the EASIEST to teach. As a general rule they respond to  the teacher's agenda much better than slower kids. I have taught both. Have you?)

Oh, and thank you for illuminating us all on the intellectual level of most TV programming. We would NEVER have fiqured that out on our own.

Cal I am not talking about good or bright students. I am talking about true genius, say of the level of Nikola Tesla. Since you teach physics you should have an idea who Nikola Tesla was?

In your classes, how would you identify a Nikola Tesla that may have some disagreements with many teachers conclusions (including yours) and be vocal about it? How would you identify true genius that disagrees with you from a bright student (above average but not exceptional) that agrees with you?

Is it possible that a Nikola Tesla would learn to keep his mouth shut in your class?

As for TV you missed the point. TV is intended to be intertaining - in contrast to talks by GA's. I thought you would pick up that idea and expand on it. Since you are a teacher maybe you would like another shot at it.

The Traveler

The few (and they are few and far between) geniuses I have had, have agreed with almost everything I have said--they mainly want to know more; they ask clarifying questions, not rude "know it all" questions. The students who like to rudely challenge teachers are usually geniuses in thier OWN minds only, and I have never had any trouble giving them a slice of humble pie. (They usually assume they understand things that they really don't)

One of the few I remember when on to get straight A+'s at Cal Tech, PH.D at Berkley and is now a leading scholar at a Jewish research institute back east. This kid was smart enough to realize that he shouldn't expect his HS Physics teacher to have ALL the answers, and was also smart enough to realize that his Physics teacher knew a heck of a lot more than he did inspite of his own talent. That is a lesson some HS kids need to learn before they start thinking they are superior to their teachers. No matter how bright, no HS kid is going to know more in total than a competent HS Chem or Physics teacher. Humility is the beginning of true knowledge--something all our students are taught when we begin learning about the scientific method----meaning nobody REALLY KNOWS anything.

Einstein, for example, was not notable for contradicting his teachers. He did, however, learn just about everything there was to know about Physics by the time he got through university, and eventually understood it better than most others. Rudeness and arrogance does not necessarily go along with intellect. I find it to exist in even the most simpleminded.

I think Starsky has expressed the same position I have on the boringness of GA talks, so I will not comment further.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Traveler+May 16 2004, 03:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ May 16 2004, 03:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@May 14 2004, 07:32 PM

You are the most condescending person on this board.

Do you consider condescending a good thing or a bad thing?

Would you prefer that I not express my opinions?

If I was more friendly would you consider that more or less condescending?

Are you disapointed with my posts because I communicate too poorly or because I communicate all to well?

The Traveler

I think she considers you condescending because you seem to imply that only yours is the intelligent position, when we all know, only mine is!