Requesting Some Opinions

[Guest Starsky]

You know we, who are born to this earth, all accepted Christ before we came, or we would not be here.

(war in heaven and all)

[Jason]

"Dude, you need to do some re-evaluation." (Your daddy)

Actually, I do that all the time. That's the beauty of it.

"The born-agains have gotten to you pretty deep(in a bad way ofcourse)."

Actually, it would be more accurate to say that the Calvinists have gotten to me.

"To think that everyone is not invited to come unto Christ is just asinine."

I didn't say it. Read Romans for starters.

"How would one know if one is chosen or not?"

One has always known. His followers know his voice.

"If one weren’t “chosen” or “elect” what would happen to that person if they decided to follow Christ?"

They wouldn't have chosen to do so if they weren't one of the elect.

"Don’t say that couldn’t happen because it could."

No, it couldn't.

"You misinterpret Romans. Christ is talking about people that pay him lip service but do not follow his teachings, or truly believe in him."

No, that's nothing like what is stated. Did you even read the scrpitures? There is nothing in the passages I referenced that you could even imply meaning 'lip service'.

"Christ invites all to follow him many, many times in “your bible”, not just the “chosen”."

Wrong. Christ invites His people to follow him. Only the believers does He invite.

"For you to contend anything else is complete an utter bull$h!%!"

I didn't say it.

"You are “chosen” and “elect” if you choose to follow the Savior and live his teachings to the best of your abilities. It is this type of elitist discriminatory crap that you, and people like you will have to answer for if there is some kind of judgment day in the future."

It's not discriminatory if God did it. We're not talking about genocide or a nazi-holocaust thing. This is about God saving whom He will. If you don't like what's in the Bible, that's your problem.

"Pride is the easiest of all sins to commit. Check yourself before you fall any deeper into the pride and arrogance that you have displayed with your last couple of posts."

I didn't say I was perfect. Nor did I say that Im better than you. Where do you get off calling me prideful?

"Can I get an Amen out there brothers and sisters?"

How about a "boo"?

[Jason]

"war in heaven and all" (Starsky)

You know, it would be an intersting thread to discuss the so-called war in heaven.

[your_Daddy]

Your mathematics example is not relevant or germane to the topic you are trying to apply it to. Mathematics is universal across every country, planet, belief system etc… Your religious understanding is not universal. In fact it conflicts substantially with many other belief systems just within Christianity. These are not superficial differences as well. Church members are quick to point that out any chance they get. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “those churches have some truth” and not say or imply that those churches are full of false teachings.

>>> there will be those who will not be able to equate math with religion or this equation >>>of math and religion.....

That’s because mathematics does not allow for the contradictions in itself that exist between the various religions. In other words they have nothing in common with each other; ergo your analogy fails spectacularly.

You can say whatever you want, but your 2 plus 2 is not the same sum as another’s 2 plus 2. You are not a prophet and you do not communicate directly with God. Do not speak as if you are /do.

There are several different forests that share a couple of species of trees between them, but at the same time have many trees that are completely foreign from each other.

Lastly, how in the (WORLD) do you know if your “testifying spirit” was the correct one and not one of the tainted? Do you have some kind of testifying-spirit-o-meter that positively identifies and differentiates between competing “spirit testifiers”? Please….

p.s. Your suggestion that someone else is “narrow in your understanding and focus” is hysterical, and hypocritical to say the least.

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 26 2004, 10:02 PM

"You have vascillated in your position regarding this issue." (Jenda to shanstress)

If I may butt in.

Shanstress is going through a major life change. She will likely struggle in coming to terms with what she now believes and doesn't believe. This seems to be common for those leaving Mormonism. Don't expect her to have all the answers right away. Since she doesn't have an organization spoon feeding her the "right" answers, she needs time to work it out.

I'd say, be patient, and over time she will find the straight and narrow path.

Jason,

I have always respected your opinion, I just want her to understand it ok she has decided to leave, no one is asking her to believe what we do. However she cannot expect to post responses about the church with out getting feed back. I don't care what she thinks about the church and its apostles, however if its a negitive thing than expect to get posting comments to prove position. I only said she was acting nasty because she came in here at first and we all got along, but now than she has decided to leave the church she keeps getting nasty with replys about the church. I never had a problem with her until she started that. I have friends of ever religion and I dont care what there beliefs are, but they dont get nasty with me about religouse vies either and then act innocent as if they werent implying it.

I love having shanstress post questions, they make you think, I would just like you to respond a little less crass, thats all.

I think whatever path she chooses as long as she has god in her life she will find peace and happiness, but it wont be found by adding negitive thoughts.

Laureltree

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 27 2004, 09:57 AM

"war in heaven and all" (Starsky)

You know, it would be an intersting thread to discuss the so-called war in heaven.

That would be an awesome toic, why dont you lead it Jason.

Laureltree

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by LaurelTree+May 27 2004, 12:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LaurelTree @ May 27 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ExMormon-Jason@May 26 2004, 10:02 PM

"You have vascillated in your position regarding this issue." (Jenda to shanstress)

If I may butt in.

Shanstress is going through a major life change. She will likely struggle in coming to terms with what she now believes and doesn't believe. This seems to be common for those leaving Mormonism. Don't expect her to have all the answers right away. Since she doesn't have an organization spoon feeding her the "right" answers, she needs time to work it out.

I'd say, be patient, and over time she will find the straight and narrow path.

Jason,

I have always respected your opinion, I just want her to understand it ok she has decided to leave, no one is asking her to believe what we do. However she cannot expect to post responses about the church with out getting feed back. I don't care what she thinks about the church and its apostles, however if its a negitive thing than expect to get posting comments to prove position. I only said she was acting nasty because she came in here at first and we all got along, but now than she has decided to leave the church she keeps getting nasty with replys about the church. I never had a problem with her until she started that. I have friends of ever religion and I dont care what there beliefs are, but they dont get nasty with me about religouse vies either and then act innocent as if they werent implying it.

I love having shanstress post questions, they make you think, I would just like you to respond a little less crass, thats all.

I think whatever path she chooses as long as she has god in her life she will find peace and happiness, but it wont be found by adding negitive thoughts.

Laureltree

You STILL think I’m nasty? WHEW!!! I give up!

[Guest lt]

YourDaddy,

Welcome to the board...Please do not start off attacking members of the board, if you disagree great! but we do not use profanity here.

If you choose to discuss people who have more than one account, maybe you need to check your own IP.

please calm down and enjoy a great conversation. There are awesome members and nonmembers here, they share different views, and use scripture refrence and knowledge to back up there beliefs, not profanity.

thank you and I hope we can share in some awesome gospel debates, you sound like you love to share what you know. I look forwrd to reading some of your topics.

thanks Laureltree

[Guest Chell]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 27 2004, 04:57 PM

"war in heaven and all" (Starsky)

You know, it would be an intersting thread to discuss the so-called war in heaven.

Yes, lets discuss the war in heaven. I would like to know where to find scripture on that.

[Jason]

"That would be an awesome toic, why dont you lead it Jason."

Cause Im still at work. Unless we can wait until later. I'd like to do some research on the traditional christian understanding of the war. Or if it's even considered a war, etc..

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 27 2004, 09:46 AM

"I'm sorry, but you are taking the view that if one isn't "saved" now, they can't be in the future." (Jenda)

Actually, no. Im saying that they may not have accepted Christ yet, but they were predestined to at some point in their lives. Hence they will hear his voice, because they are his sheep. Look at me, for example. I have only recently accepted Christianity. If I believed that it wasn't possible to Hear the masters voice at any point in someone's life, then I would be a hypocrite. That's why I believe in missionary work. The sooner we can get someone to hear his voice, the greater good that person can do while still alive.

"That is not true. Whether one is 8 or 18 or 48 or 78, when they accept Christ as their Savior, they become one of the elect." (Jenda)

I differ slightly. They were already the elect, but had not yet accepted Christ. That's why in the parable of the slaves, some came early and worked all day, others at the end of the day, but all received an equal reward. Why? Because they were all the Elect of Christ to begin with.

As for the Joseph Smith translation...out of respect for you personally....no comment.

Sorry, predestination is a concept that leaves no room for personal choice. Even in the Bible, no matter which version you read, Adam and Eve had the choice to listen to God, or disobey his commandments. Choice has been with us from the beginning.

So, you are following the road to Calvinism, huh?

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by shanstress70@May 27 2004, 10:38 AM

You STILL think I’m nasty? WHEW!!! I give up!

Shanstress,

Let me explain this in a better way.

I know you are struggling right now, I have been there and it is tough, and I'm sure as family find out it could get rougher and maybe not. If you ever need a friend to discuss religion and thought great! I would listen and not judge you, I think you are a wonderful person. I told you when I first met you I'm glad your here and I met it. I just think sometimes you get upset and respond in a frusterating way and it comes off at times a little nasty. I know it has alot to do with what you are going throuhg, but it is hard for me not to say calm down when its my beliefs you are trying to prove wrong. You came here confused, now you are in the secound state of leaving- angery-frusterated-and starting to become a little to anti. That is very normal for those who leave the church, but when you bring that to a ldsboard, it comes across very wrong. I hope you stay, I love you topics and thoughts.....just please tone down the inside anger, I can feel it in your writing. When I left my church my family was in uproar, and it was difficult to find my place in religion. I studied allot and found my place and you will to,just give it time. Nobody here will judge if you leave, but please remember they love the gospel still, and it probably disterbs them as much to hear your topics as much as it disterbs you to hear we belive its true. I always think its important just to look at the comman ground of it all, atleast we are all living to do his will and looking to return to him as a family. I hope we can all start anew, and all be a little kinder.

Laureltree

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by your_Daddy@May 27 2004, 10:16 AM

Your mathematics example is not relevant or germane to the topic you are trying to apply it to. Mathematics is universal across every country, planet, belief system etc… Your religious understanding is not universal. In fact it conflicts substantially with many other belief systems just within Christianity. These are not superficial differences as well. Church members are quick to point that out any chance they get. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “those churches have some truth” and not say or imply that those churches are full of false teachings.

>>> there will be those who will not be able to equate math with religion or this equation >>>of math and religion.....

That’s because mathematics does not allow for the contradictions in itself that exist between the various religions. In other words they have nothing in common with each other; ergo your analogy fails spectacularly.

You can say whatever you want, but your 2 plus 2 is not the same sum as another’s 2 plus 2. You are not a prophet and you do not communicate directly with God. Do not speak as if you are /do.

There are several different forests that share a couple of species of trees between them, but at the same time have many trees that are completely foreign from each other.

Lastly, how in the hell do you know if your “testifying spirit” was the correct one and not one of the tainted? Do you have some kind of testifying-spirit-o-meter that positively identifies and differentiates between competing “spirit testifiers”? Please….

p.s. Your suggestion that someone else is “narrow in your understanding and focus” is hysterical, and hypocritical to say the least.

I knew you would take it too literally and too far...

You don't have the heart of a poet or someone with profound insights and so I understand your limits....in many ways....

So....I guess there is no need to further discussion between the two of us...

I have to agree with Laurel Tree, you have come here and done nothing but bash...which makes me believe you are one of our banned members coming back with a new persona....and not a very nice one.

I hope you improve and aren't going to get banned again...

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@May 27 2004, 10:46 AM

"That would be an awesome toic, why dont you lead it Jason."

Cause Im still at work. Unless we can wait until later. I'd like to do some research on the traditional christian understanding of the war. Or if it's even considered a war, etc..

Sounds great how about after work, that way we can all read up a little ok

We will look forward to the topic Jason.

Ps...Hows your daughter doing?

[Jason]

"Sorry, predestination is a concept that leaves no room for personal choice. Even in the Bible, no matter which version you read, Adam and Eve had the choice to listen to God, or disobey his commandments. Choice has been with us from the beginning."

I'd like to discuss this with you when I have more time and a Bible handy? Okay?

"So, you are following the road to Calvinism, huh?"

Actually I have quite a few problems with Calvinsim. Yet, in order to accept all of the various teachings of the Bible, one cannot entirely ignore their arguments either.

PS= I HATE THE STUPID FLOOD CONTROL ON THIS BOARD. LAURELTREE, CAN YOU TAKE THAT OFF SOMEHOW, OR RESTRICT IT TO CERTAIN VISITORS ONLY??????

[Guest Starsky]

PS= I HATE THE STUPID FLOOD CONTROL ON THIS BOARD. LAURELTREE, CAN YOU TAKE THAT OFF SOMEHOW, OR RESTRICT IT TO CERTAIN VISITORS ONLY??????

It is a pain, even the Mods have to deal with it...

[Guest lt]

Yes I can look into it now

[Guest lt]

JASON....Done. If we have problems with spamming, I will have to put it on high ok...Thanks Laureltree

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by LaurelTree+May 27 2004, 12:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LaurelTree @ May 27 2004, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--shanstress70@May 27 2004, 10:38 AM

You STILL think I’m nasty?  WHEW!!!  I give up!

Shanstress,

Let me explain this in a better way.

I know you are struggling right now, I have been there and it is tough, and I'm sure as family find out it could get rougher and maybe not. If you ever need a friend to discuss religion and thought great! I would listen and not judge you, I think you are a wonderful person. I told you when I first met you I'm glad your here and I met it. I just think sometimes you get upset and respond in a frusterating way and it comes off at times a little nasty. I know it has alot to do with what you are going throuhg, but it is hard for me not to say calm down when its my beliefs you are trying to prove wrong. You came here confused, now you are in the secound state of leaving- angery-frusterated-and starting to become a little to anti. That is very normal for those who leave the church, but when you bring that to a ldsboard, it comes across very wrong. I hope you stay, I love you topics and thoughts.....just please tone down the inside anger, I can feel it in your writing. When I left my church my family was in uproar, and it was difficult to find my place in religion. I studied allot and found my place and you will to,just give it time. Nobody here will judge if you leave, but please remember they love the gospel still, and it probably disterbs them as much to hear your topics as much as it disterbs you to hear we belive its true. I always think its important just to look at the comman ground of it all, atleast we are all living to do his will and looking to return to him as a family. I hope we can all start anew, and all be a little kinder.

Laureltree

Once again, I’m not struggling. I was a convert to the church, so my family is actually indifferent about it. About being angry and nasty, I did have a falling out with Starsky, and I did get angry with her. That’s the only time I’ve been angry on this board, that I recollect.

I think you should lighten up a bit. And just curious why Rodney needs to change his avatar? As far as my tone goes… if I tone it down any more I won’t be alive!

And once again, I’m not trying to be angry, but could you start using spellcheck?

Thanks!

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by shanstress70@May 27 2004, 11:22 AM

I think you should lighten up a bit. And just curious why Rodney needs to change his avatar? As far as my tone goes… if I tone it down any more I won’t be alive!

And once again, I’m not trying to be angry, but could you start using spellcheck?

Thanks!

And once again, I’m not trying to be angry, but could you start using spellcheck?

and that's not being rude. I have found plenty of flaws in quite a few people remarks but I do not correct them

because they might be like me...A mother with a sleeping baby in her arms trying to type I guess I will try to be more accurate to meet your needs. As for toning it down, I'm sure everyone will be happy to reply to you in the same manner in which you reply to them, but dont ask me for help when it gets out of and.

As for the aviator. I'm an administrator of a LDSboard, its kinda of inappropriate to see a devil or naked being on a religouse site, don't you think.

Laureltree

[Maureen]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@May 27 2004, 11:38 AM

As for the aviator. I'm an administrator of a LDSboard, its kinda of inappropriate to see a devil or naked being on a religouse site, don't you think.

Laureltree

Someone complained about Rodney's avatar when it was Dr. Evil. What's the poor guy to do, when he keeps getting picked on because of a silly picture.

M.

[your_Daddy]

Larrell tree

I am the husband of shanstress, that is why ip the same. I could spoof another ip or use an ip scrubber service for the transmission, but that would be more trouble than it is worth. Thanks for the welcome.

Please don't use this board to bash it's members. edited by Starsky

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by LaurelTree@May 27 2004, 01:38 PM

And once again, I’m not trying to be angry, but could you start using spellcheck?

and that's not being rude.  I have found plenty of flaws in quite a few people remarks but I do not correct them

because they might be like me...A mother with a sleeping baby in her arms trying to type I guess I will try to be more accurate to meet your needs. As for toning it down, I'm sure everyone will be happy to reply to you in the same manner in which you reply to them, but dont ask me for help when it gets out of and.

As for the aviator. I'm an administrator of a LDSboard, its kinda of inappropriate to see a devil or naked being on a religouse site, don't you think.

Laureltree

I don't think it's rude to not want to see every other word misspelled. But I do understand if a baby is the reason. Forget I said anything.

Guess I just need some anger management courses! Sorry, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells. I'm quite sure I won't be asking for your help, or anyone else's if someone responds to me in the tone that I've been responding to you. So far, the only ones I've had any contention with is you and Starsky anyway. And Starsky and I are OK for the time-being anyway.

What I meant before was that I'm finished responding to you. I didn't mean that I was leaving. But I do appreciate your message. If the only topic is just that I'm 'angry', I probably will because it isn't fun or entertaining to me. However, you'll probably ban me because of my goofy husband anyway.

As for the avatar, I think it's kinda cool and freaky. I don't know that it's the devil, but even if it is, can't you lighten up a bit? Life should be fun. That doesn't mean you have to go against what the church teaches you, but let your hair down a bit.

Excuse the anger please, I'm not even trying anymore.

I do think you are a nice person, so I hope you don't take offense to any of this.

[Jason]

"JASON....Done. If we have problems with spamming, I will have to put it on high ok...Thanks Laureltree."

You ROCK!

[Guest lt]

I agree shanstress, but all the things you are asking me to do are what I'm asking you...just lighten up, enjoy good conversation and realize people here are not trying to push your buttons..thats all.

I'm not sure why I would ban you or your hubby, out of all the moderators I think I'm the most layed back, but don't take my opinion... you can ask around

Laureltree

Life is only full of what you put into it