What if - Adam & Eve [Changing the Outcome]

[the Ogre]

I feel compelled to say that this "what if" thread creates speculation based on unfounded assumptions. It creates more speculation and adds confusion where there need not be any. Adeipho hit it right on the head. I am increasingly concerned by some of the topics on this forum that stray far from the basic principles of the gospel and doctrines that are found in the standard works and official sources like lds.org and mormon.org where anyone can visit for clear cut answers and correct information that is approved by our church as official doctrine.

It's one thing to discuss things that General Authorities have said in the past, including the profound discourses of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, etc, but to speculate on things outside of what has been given us by our official leaders is unproductive and in my opinion dangerous. There are members who struggle with their testimonies as it is and what must people think, who are wanting to learn about our faith, when they see threads like this? This is not my attempt to censor anyone. I'm not going to lock this topic, but I don't see any reason for this topic to continue. It is fruitless.

"Keep in mind that anything posted, uploaded, or otherwise displayed on the site should be understandable to friends of other faiths as well as to members."--Site Rules

I agree whole-heartedly to the post. Gospel-speculation is very dangerous and ought to be avoided.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I agree whole-heartedly to the post. Gospel-speculation is very dangerous and ought to be avoided.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I disagree.

The word "speculate" seems to have a very negetive connotation to it, so I'm trying to think of a different word to use - with the help of Thesaurus.com this is what I've come up with:

brainstorm, chew over, conjecture, consider, contemplate, deliberate, excogitate, figure, figure out, guess, guesstimate, hypothesize, kick around, meditate, muse, read, reason, reflect, review, ruminate, study, suppose, surmise, theorize, weigh, wonder

For a more complete list visit speculate - Synonyms from Thesaurus.com

Now then, it seems to me that no one in their right mind would say that applying any of these synonyms to Gospel study is a bad thing. In fact we are even commanded in scripture to "mediate" on the Gospel ( Joshua 1 ). I say that "Gospel-speculation" is an important part of learning and studying and growing in the Gospel. Through careful study, review, deliberation, and consideration we allow ourselves to theorize, surmise, and hypothosize about Gospel principles, upon which we can reflect, ruminate, consider, and weigh against the teachings of the prophets. This opens us up to the Spirit and to personal revelation which helps us to figure out truths that can guide us in our lives and help us understand the Gospel more fully.

I will qualify this, however. When our speculation leads us in wrong directions and we are not fully open to the Spirit to guide us in these cases, or if we don't carefully compare our new theories and ideas with the scriptures and with modern revelation, we can make false assumptions. What's worse, if we continue in our false assumptions we may lead others down that path as well. But asking questions about the doctrines and principles of the Gospel and pursuing answers to those questions through our friends and associates, the scriptures, modern revelation, and the Spirit, is most definitely appropriate.

[the Ogre]

I will qualify this, however. When our speculation leads us in wrong directions and we are not fully open to the Spirit to guide us in these cases, or if we don't carefully compare our new theories and ideas with the scriptures and with modern revelation, we can make false assumptions. What's worse, if we continue in our false assumptions we may lead others down that path as well. But asking questions about the doctrines and principles of the Gospel and pursuing answers to those questions through our friends and associates, the scriptures, modern revelation, and the Spirit, is most definitely appropriate.

I think you are okay in saying what you say about the actual use of the word, but I want to say that this thread and several others recently are not inspired or of even a little worth filed with false assumptions, red herrings, and misleading directions and not only that but the primary posters seem to be trying to elevate themselves over others through pseudo-authority and false-expertise.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I think you are okay in saying what you say about the actual use of the word, but I want to say that this thread and several others recently are not inspired or of even a little worth filed with false assumptions, red herrings, and misleading directions and not only that but the primary posters seem to be trying to elevate themselves over others through pseudo-authority and false-expertise.

Well, complete ditto on that :)

[Guest tomk]

I think you are okay in saying what you say about the actual use of the word, but I want to say that this thread and several others recently are not inspired or of even a little worth filed with false assumptions, red herrings, and misleading directions and not only that but the primary posters seem to be trying to elevate themselves over others through pseudo-authority and false-expertise.

Yes, but in the end, that is only your opinion, and nothing more.

You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to be the "opinion police" and tell other people who they can and cannot listen to, or what to talk about or believe. That makes us no better than the people who spread lies about the LDS faith and people believe it without question.

The door swings both ways on this.

Nobody here is claiming pseudo-authority or false-expertise. You are mistaking genuine enthusiasm and curiousity for cultism.

I love the Lord, and feel encouraged by Him to search-out the mysteries. I value the input of others. They help me to understand aspects of the gospel I had not considered. At times they help "reign-me-in" by the comments they make. But it all must happen in an environment of free will and not intimidation or coercion. If you don't like what is being said, but have nothing to really offer to the the discussion, I think the best thing to do is do nothing instead of posting a comment like "I don't like this and I think you guys should stop talking about it." That does not contribute meaningfully to the topic at hand and tends to derail the conversation into a war of words -- which is not fair to the original poster.

My two cents.

[skalenfehl]

After several pm's I'm just going to close this thread.