the Ogre

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About the Ogre

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    Senior Member
  • Birthday April 30

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    Orem, Utah
  • Interests
    Nuthin much
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  1. the Ogre

    Lie, Misunderstanding, or Blunt Truth

    You're getting really worked up. I get it. I got problems, too. Even the great and mighty @pam has problems. We all do. No one is perfect on this board. Be patient and let the atonement work in your life and DO NOT FREAK OUT WHEN THERE IS A SETBACK OR TWO.
  2. Think so . . . m'kay . . .
  3. Ah, you get the point! New Point: it doesn't matter if you or I think something is allegorical or not, others WILL disagree and WILL disagree to the point where any scriptural instruction is possible. Fighting is always the problem. For example, the flood: I think the flood is both historical and allegorical, but there are individuals, entire faith-groups, historians, scientists, philosophers, and skeptics who disagree. Then there are disagreements about how historical the flood is or which allegorical interpretations are allowed if they can be allowed. Eventually, the whole point of any discussion is bogged down over the veracity or interpretation of the flood event itself and not the spiritual or scriptural point that might've been made and everyone gets mad, retreats to their personal orthodoxies, and no one learns anything and any hope of constructive discussion is lost. This very thread is an illustration of that point: whatever the OP's point might've been is lost in useless minutia, that's why points 1-3 of the bullet list I provided is so important. You've been active on this forum for decades, Traveler, and the discussions you get involved with or start always get bogged down. It's boring and you never accomplish anything, however, I like reading what you have to say, but almost never choose to rebut you or discuss anything with you because it would be useless to: you like bogs, pitfalls, stumbling blocks, minutia, and the nitpickery of language especially when it shows you just might the smartest person on the forum (keep in mind, I do not think you should stop posting, because you are very knowledgeable and have loads to contribute). I think such king-of-the-hill discussions are pointless and a contravention of the intent of the gospel and the four-fold mission of the church, however writing that is accessible, clear, and bereft of opaque subtlety and ego would be beneficial to everyone.
  4. the Ogre

    Biggest LDS related news according to the Trib

    When I woke this morning and read the news and after I said my prayers thanking The L-rd for President Monson and his decades of hard work, I immediately thought about this thread. I love President Monson and when I posted this thread I wanted to guage people's reactions to the Trib's reporting (I was a little surprised at the rancor, but I should not have been). Personally, when I read the story about President Monson needing to stay home because of the effects health, age, and a life of hard work and travel back in September I think it was, I was not sad for President Monson. He was ninety and had worked hard his entire life for the church and the picture accompanying the photo showed him with some great-grandchildren and I thought then that that's what I want when I am ninety. I want to be able to sit in a recliner in my old age and to be surrounded by children. I am so happy the church was led by such a great man. I am eternally grateful for the gift of his service and the love that radiated from him every time he spoke or appeared in public. We are fortunate as Latter-day Saints to have leaders like President Monson. When I posted the story above, I was not worried about anything going astray with the church when President Monson needed to stay home because the organization of the leadership of the church is amazing and is established for continuity and smoothness of operation. President Monson's call for the disaffected to come back still resonates with me and I know while he was the person who said it, he was only voicing the hopes and wishes of the L-rd.
  5. I just read the news and then said a prayer of thanks for President Monson's decades of hard work. In my prayer, I also thanked the L-rd for President Nelson. I'll be thanking the L-rd for President Monson for quite a while. He was a special man and a wonderful leader of the church. He will be missed.
  6. the Ogre


    At least someone did. :0
  7. the Ogre

    Rules on baptism for the dead

    Here is a recent news article from Religion News Service that gives a little Jewish perspective. Edit: Here is an article from Jewish Telegraphic Agency on the issue.
  8. the Ogre

    Hatch (R-Utah) Is Retiring

    According to the Deseretnews, Sen. Hatch is retiring. I know not everyone here is from Utah, but this is kinda big news even for Latter-day Saints not in Utah since Hatch is easily the most powerful member of the church in government here in the United States. As the senate pro tem, he is also the most powerful senator in the US. For me, I like him very much, but I am glad he is stepping aside. I hope Romney runs for his seat. We need another voice that will counter Trump's more stupid annunciations in the senate.
  9. the Ogre


    Normally, I'd gloat, but the Jazz aren't doing that well right now
  10. the Ogre

    Rules on baptism for the dead

    Thanks Pam
  11. the Ogre

    Rules on baptism for the dead

    Here is the complication I have: I am Jewish through my mother's side of the family. My Jewish ancestors converted to the church in the early 1900s and moved to Utah. They were disowned by the family who remained behind in the Pale and in Germany. ALL, All of the family who remained were killed in the holocaust unless they had the good fortune to die before (except for a few cousins in Philly who snuck out just in time). I can not do their temple work since I am not their direct ancestor. Honestly, I'm okay. My great-grandmother, my grandmother, and my great-uncles have already done the work and did so many years prior to the 1980s and 90s agreement to stop doing temple work for deceased Jews, particularly holocaust Jews. Now I have found a great many names from the trio of shtetls where those relatives came from that I am a direct descendant of and I am in the hunt for many more, but out of respect for the church's agreement (the agreement that those members who did the work for Carrie Fisher's family are in violation of), I have not submitted any of those names and will wait until the time is right. Maybe my grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be able to do the work for them. Who knows, but world-wide Judaism is still recovering from the holocaust and right now, doing this temple work would hurt the church and its relationship with Judaism and simply be in bad taste. The work will wait.
  12. Can you accomplish your aim without seeking to allegorize scripture? The process of allegorization is simply beating around the bush. A process that is fraught with danger, the danger of your intent being hijacked by people who disagree with seeing allegory in historical events or being hijacked by people who dispute the veracity of the same historical event due some application of science. Here's an ad hoc formula that I bet will work: Avoid controversial historical events, avoid the baked-in controversies surrounding controversial historical events, and obviously, avoid allegory altogether (it's confusing and allegory nearly always fall apart under pressure), then state your idea clearly without manipulation (I recommend a clear three stage thesis), provide a limited series of supports that get to the point quickly (really long series of supports bore your readers) , and close with a clear conclusion that reaffirms the original thesis. If you are writing for a forum, realize writing more than five hundred words is simply writing too much--more than five hundred words is too much for a blog even. If you need more space than five hundred words, write a series of forum posts and/or blog entries. The important thing is: be simple, avoid controversial historical events, don't allegorize, and be concise. Whatever you were trying to accomplish got lost in the controversies surrounding the creation narrative. I'm interested in your content, not a creation allegory: stop beating around the bush.
  13. the Ogre

    Counciling Alone

    So, did you hear from your BP? I hope he had good news. I don't have seasonal depression, just the regular kind, but my springtime allergies are so bad, I can barely function. Every time I've been an EQP or SSP, I've had similar problems with counselors. Typically where one (and almost always, both) of my counselors could care less or is so busy with other concerns there's no contribution of any form other than "you go Br. Ogre." It's hard to delegate or get advise when the answer from the rest of the presidency is almost always "no" or "sorry bro, but I got softball/bowling/golf/work/the hunt/wife-problems and there's no way" or "huh?" or "whatever, talk to the Relief Society Pres, it's her job" Yeah, we survived. I always let the the counselors get the recognition when we succeeded and took it on the chin when we failed. Most of the time however, no one but the bishop and I knew there was ever a problem. I don't have any advice other than: keep on keeping on. Keep communicating with your BP, I know he wants to know and is supportive even if he can't help. It sounds like you are a pretty amazing person. I'm not saying you can or can't do it, but bide your time through the blue times. You know eventually the rain clouds go away.
  14. the Ogre

    Dog-Eat-Dog World

    Straight up excitement, man. You know what it's like: you get super involved in something and you can't hear anything going on around you. Just getting deafened by rhetorical adrenaline.
  15. the Ogre

    Biggest LDS related news according to the Trib

    From the link shared by @NeedleinA, here are my favorite news items: President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency, announced on February 7 the creation of a new global higher education organization, BYU–Pathway Worldwide. The printer’s manuscript of The Book of Mormon was purchased by the Church. On December 14, the First Presidency announced changes in temple policies that give young men and young women more opportunities in temple work and that help Primary children better prepare to serve in the temple. The First Presidency announced on May 11 that the Church will discontinue involvement in the Boy Scouts of America Varsity and Venturing programs. March 17 marked 175 years since the organization of the Relief Society by the prophet Joseph Smith in 1842. On August 17, Elder D. Todd Christofferson visited the Church’s only branch in Nepal and surprised members with copies of the first Nepali translation of the Book of Mormon. Elder Robert D. Hales of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles died on October 1. Funeral services were held on October 6 in the Salt Lake Tabernacle. On October 27, the First Presidency announced changes to the general women’s and general priesthood sessions of general conference.