Midwest LDS

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Midwest LDS last won the day on October 29 2019

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About Midwest LDS

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  1. Midwest LDS

    BoM Is Abolitionist

    That was the popular view of abolitionists in the South. There were definitely individuals and groups that 100% agreed with that viewpoint, but like any group of people, abolitionists varied in their opinions. There were also those who believed in compensated emancipation, and in sending the former slaves back to Africa, or just freeing the slaves but not extending their rights beyond that. Some religious abolitionists wanted to make former slaves full citizens upon the ending of slavery, but this view was pretty uncommon before and during the early part of the Civil War. Actually it was hundreds of thousands of blacks being willing to pick up the rifle and help fight against the South that brought the majority over to believing they deserved the rights of citizens. Of course a whole bunch of stuff went wrong right afterwards during Reconstruction, but that's another discussion.
  2. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    Agreed 100%
  3. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    You are ok my friend. I also took some satisfaction watching Confederate statues removed throughout the South. I've always considered them traitors, who tried to destroy this country to maintain the horrific system of slavery. To be blunt they don't deserve to be honored. But I really hate mobs. I'm okay with statues of Robert E. Lee or Edward Colston being removed but I want it done through proper channels, otherwise we risk those mobs destroying monuments of people who do deserve to be honored like Ulysses S. Grant or John Newton.
  4. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    And I appreciate that. It's important to recognize that while we may not struggle with an issue others do, and try to reach out to them and point them in the direction of resources that answer their questions rather than just dismissing their concerns.
  5. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    I believe you. Sometimes though it's hard for me to wrap my head around. Most of the stuff that typically gets people upset (everything from polygamy to how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon) I remember learning in seminary. Even the stuff I didn't learn about there (the Mountain Meadows Massacre for one) I learned more about by reading the Institute manuals on my mission and I don't consider myself especially different from anyone else in the church. The information is readily available from the church, so I've never understood how so many people seem to not find it. I will add though that I recognize my obsession with history helped me out here. I like researching things that puzzle me, so whenever it's happened I tend to go straight to the source. I won't judge someone who doesn't have that as a strength and I hope the missionaries you mentioned were able to find some peace in their lives.
  6. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    It's a magic oracle device I believe is called Google. You make a sacrifice of an Apple to the gods, and ask your question of the glowing rock and the words magically appear in bold letters before your very eyes😃.
  7. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    Yes. He believed that the white race was superior to the black race and by our standards he would be viewed as a racist, although his beliefs were far from uncommon at the time. It's not surprising given that many prominent scientists around the world during that period of history believed and taught the same thing. They were wrong of course, but they didn't know that then. However, he believed blacks should still be treated as human beings. One of the reasons he despised slavery is because he believed a man who worked hard had a right to be paid for that work and that it was fundamentally immoral to deprive him of that wage. For his time, he was more egalitarian than many others in the country.
  8. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    Sorry thread jack real quick. Lincoln opposed slavery on a personal level for most of his life. You can find writings as far back as the 1840's mentioning his distate for the system. Lincoln, however, was also a strong believer in the Constitution. At the time, the Constitution gave him no authority to unilaterally end slavery. The quote he made was made at the start of the war, when he believed it would be short and when he had very little political support to end slavery. Ironically it was the rebels themselves who gave him the political capital to end slavery, and if you study his political decisions closely, you can see an almost undeviating course towards ending slavery, which he correctly believed had caused the war in the first place. First by compensated emancipation in the vital border states, then by freeing slaves held by the Confederacy, then by using all of his political clout to pass the Thirteenth Amendment abolishing slavery right before his death. Here's a quote from him on the subject, less famous than his preserve the Union quote, but more relevant " "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. ... And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling." Rioters don't have the historical knowledge to understand this. All they see is "he said something that sounds bad from a 21st century perspective so he's bad". It's why I will never trust a mob to make an intelligent decision.
  9. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    I hadn't thought to connect this current issue with the gospel, but you make an excellent point. Temple ordinances, scripture, even visions both modern and ancient make heavy use of symbolism. They teach lessons far beyond the actual physical symbol used (Lehi's great and spacious building, Jacob's ladder etc.) I had a lot more visceral negative reaction to New York announcing it would remove that statue of Teddy Roosevelt, than I would have someone just speaking ill of him because of what the symbolism of that act represents.
  10. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    I agree. This stuff is really starting to smack of the Chinese Cultural revolution in the late 60's. Everything from the past torn down by mobs that are acting with the approval of the government. As a historian, it turns my stomach, but I agree there is an overriding political will behind the madness.
  11. Hey now, I'm not corrupt. Corruption implies I'm hiding what I'm selling. I'm bringing back the spoils system. Come into my office and grovel properly and I'll hand out government jobs.
  12. Hey only 999 more, I might just vote for myself this time around. I'll be 35 so I'm eligible.
  13. Nah I had to look her up in a list of third party candidates...and she was pretty far down. If she breaks a thousand votes I'll be impressed😃.
  14. C'mon we all know you're voting for Gloria la Riva, candidate for the party of Socialism and Liberation. You were the one pushing for her to get ballot access in Florida.
  15. Midwest LDS

    Brigham Young statue vandalized

    This kind of stuff has got to stop. I'm not going to lie, watching some, in my opinion, Confederate traitors have their statues removed from town squares doesn't bother me as long as it's done through the proper channels (eg. at the direction of mayors, city councils etc.) But by allowing mobs to vent their anger and take down statues themselves, we've opened a Pandora's box. Because almost no one, even the most heroic people from the past, had "enlightened" 21st century attitudes. So that's why Brigham Young, Ulysses S. Grant, Francis Scott Key, and a host of other heroic individuals have been lumped in with Stonewall Jackson and Nathan Bedford Forrest. We have got to put a stop to this public vandalism at some point.