Jane_Doe

There’s points I need to remind myself repeatedly that the idiots around me are nothing compared to thier glorified Christ-like sleves

An important refinement on this to make (speaking as an LDS Christian lady) Free will is foundational to what it is to be. It is intrinsic to whom person is. The Father acknowledges this. Christ (whom was always the chosen to be the Savior) choose to follow in His Father's wisdom in this regard. It was Lucifer whom then said (in essence) "Time out-- no no, that's a horrible idea. I'll force everyone to behave. I'll be the Savior I"ll be the most High!". The Father already had the Plan, Lucifer's rebellion was never a valid option. But Lucifer did always have the option to obey or rebel, and he choose rebellion. You can't get a more anti-Calvinist view point than LDS Christians. The "sovereignty of God" is... not a concern. Just zero. We have all have choices- you, me, the Father, etc. They are intrinsic. Obviously some things aren't possible and consequences comes with choices. Even the Father acknowledges this and works within that framework.

FWIW @Fether I’m pro-covid safety measures (masks, vaccine, distance, etc). I just don’t vocalize things to much online or IRL.

Having the option to stay home is very different than the default assumption being that a working woman is working because she didn't have the option and has a lesser quality husband. Also, there are legitimate reasons a man could not work / unable to make enough to solo provide. A medical disability being an obvious example. I went, created, and account, downloaded the book, and read through the first 30 pages and it's ... very chauvinistic... I'll go for a very simple quote to illustrate my feelings here: "Lack of chivalry is apparent on every hand. Women, of necessity, must take care of themselves. They must change their own tires, wash the automobiles, mow the lawn, repair the furnace, paint the house, and life heavy objects. Where are the men waiting to offer masculine assistance to the gentler sex?" --pg 12 The assumption here is that a woman doing any of these things is because of a man's failings. That's not honoring her choice whether or not to do them, a couple's right to divide work as equal partners, or her need to learn these skills as a agent in her own right. It's not empowering to women. OR to men as the tone is very negative rather than encouraging men to develop themselves and their individual talents. Going for a simple example: a lady is driving on the super busy highway on the way to a Relief Society activity. She gets a flat and has to make an emergency pull off to the shoulder. She knows how to change the tire, and quickly does so, thus getting safely off the busy highway shoulder asap. This is a GOOD thing. Her having this skill to quickly enable her to get to safety it's a failure on anyone's part (hers or any man's). Likewise it's ok if as a couple they decide that the wife's going to spend the afternoon working on the car while the husband is taking care of another thing. That's ok: they both have options and made a joint decision to do things. That's working as help-mates, as God intended.

I am a member of society, former attendee of BYU-I and have many loved ones whom are graduates of BYU Provo, and family members currently attending BYU. I find being able to articulate one’s concerns at be an important skill. I can’t help find a solution to a problem that’s not expressed. And no, I don’t find educating women to be a problem or sinful. Same with women being able to choose to work. Same for folks attracted to members of the same sex. I have encountered folks ( both at BYU’s, in the church, and in general) whom have very harmful ideas of “ masculinity “, which frequently involve curtailing the agency of others and limiting thier own growth.

Indeed. You have a “call to arms” and yet cannot explain what your concern is. I am trying to understand.

Again, that’s not helpful for me to understand what you mean here.

People can listen to the same talk and hear very different messages. There is an extremely high probability of that being the case for this talk. As I’m specifically interested in how YOU are using the term, my asking you for your own definition in your own words, rather than me imposing my hearing on to you.

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you use the term “marshmallow men”?

You have not elaborated on what you consider to be “marshmallow men”. But a woman working does NOT mean her husband is of lesser quality. Neither does A woman earning a degree somehow make a man weaker.

You are judging me, your coworkers, thier husbands, etc. Again: a woman working or having a education does not equate to “omega-males”. Rather, a man should CELEBRATE another person getting a degree, working a good job, other other accomplishments.

We’re talking about the here & now Earthly life. Again, a woman working does NOT mean her husband is some type of lesser quality. It is very inaccurate and offsenive for anyone to make such an assumption or judge them at all.

Myself: all of the above. I enjoy my job: it gives me puzzles, new things to learn & solve, etc. That doesn't mean I don't also prize my family extremely. But I also do enjoy my work. Which isn't to say that there aren't headaches involved with it that I regularly gripe about. Running through other ladies I know: - She works at a school because she enjoys being able to learn how better educate her children, and to help other kids & families learn. It's a "because I have been given much" attitude. Plus, she enjoys having the extra money in the family budget to save for children's college and rainy-day fund. - She works because she wants to & enjoys the connection with other adults. She goes stir crazy and clinically depressed when she's been a a stay-at-home mom. - She works because she loves her husband and doesn't want him gone 100+ hours a week working multiple jobs. She'd rather have him work one job, and then come home to be with her & the kids both emotionally/physically. She choose to work some herself rather than have a MIA husband. - She works because her husband has health issues and it's uncertain how long he'll be able to work at all. Her working means they have savings now and if he needs to stop working she already has an established career. - She works to better learn & challenge herself. She's loves the new skills she's acquired and wants to keep growing mentally. None of these ladies are working because their husband is lazy or a dog. In fact, I know each of the husbands and they are all good hard working men at the job & at home as husbands & fathers. It's HORRIBLY inaccurate and offense to both the ladies and men to assume "oh she's working, he must be low quality".

Pardon me: but that seems really shaky ground for a huge position and inherently HUGELY judgmental one.

You do realize that that's an assumption, and yourpostions seems to be largely built on it?