wenglund

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wenglund last won the day on February 4

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  1. wenglund

    Mind Blowing or Expanding

    In Ether 3, I think it significant that the brother of Jared went to the top of an exceedingly high mountain (Shelem). Mountains are not only symbolic of temples, but also as a means of getting closer to God, in this case exceedingly close.. On the top of Shelem, the brother of Jared presumably gathered material (rock), which he then molten into 16 "stones" (two for each of the eight vessels) that were made thereby "white and clear, and transparent as glass." While on the top of Shelem, the brother of Jared prayed to the Lord. Among many miraculous things resulting therefrom, the Lord touched the stones and they became a source of light. I take from this the symbolic meaning that prophets on earth, such as the brother of Jared, gather men (rocks), and through the gospel they are changed (molten) to become new men (changed from rocks to stone) and made pure and righteous (white and clear). And the prophets pray over their flock, and eventually the hand of Christ the Lord touches them and they become a source of light as well. Powerful. What is your take on this and other symbolic passages of scripture? Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  2. wenglund

    The Hill Cumorah

    What about the climate back then? From what I understand, the heartland region was much cooler back in that day, being in the process of coming out of an earlier ice age several thousand years before, where the glaciers were up to two miles thick. Perhaps the area in question was still under some glacial snow? At the very least, from 600 BC to 400 AD, winters in that region must have been colder and more snowy than it is today, making it less likely, assuming a Heartland model, that the laminates would be running around in near naked attire as depicted in the OP picture. With this in mind, factor in the Jaredites who came to the Americas about 200 years before Lehi. Burrr! Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  3. wenglund

    February 11 -17

    Given that this weeks lesson is titled, "Ye Must Be Born Again," I recommend a profoundly insightful article on the subject written by Jeff Bradshaw and Matt Bowen, ""By the Blood Ye Are SAnctified." Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  4. I am wondering if you could have saved yourself considerable time and effort, and provided a more authoritative response, by simply posting the The Family: A Proclamation to the Word, which surprisingly, and as best I could tell, you didn't cite in any of your articles. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  5. wenglund

    TK Smoothies

    Some people, at times, mis-think they are in a position to speak for the general church body, when really they are only correctly speaking for themselves. Granted, I may be guilty of this on occasion, though I try consciously to avoid doing so. Thank,s, -Wade Englund-
  6. wenglund

    Mind Blowing or Expanding

    Yes, indeed, from beginning to end, the Book of Mormon speaks to the repeated cycle of humility and righteousness and prosperity to pride and evil and wars and destruction, which is certainly indicative of the pattern and need for our continued repentance and enduring to the end. More specific, though, this morning's reading for me was Ether Chapter 2, which impressed upon me the multi-layers of symbolism in the construction of the barge (one layer in relation to our own bodies) and the need for external light of non-earthly origin. And, I am excited for tomorrows reading when I can bask in the symbolism-rich layers of the touch of Christ to the stones (of our hearts), thereby bringing light into darkness. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  7. wenglund

    Mind Blowing or Expanding

    I just came across, or rather had opened to my understanding, a new favorite symbolism-rich passage. Actually, it is the first part of the Gospels--particularly John, which covers the narrative of Jesus' time in mortality from his birth to his interaction with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well. (I had initially intended to post this on the Come Follow Me study forum, but it doesn't fit a given lesson as structured on that forum, so I figured it would be appropriate posting it here.) In addition to the multi-layers of symbolism for each of the individual events reported during the aforementioned time frame, it occurred to me that they, together, subtly teach sequentially, the Plan of Progression. Here is how--at least as I have come to see it: The period from Christ's birth to his baptism represents the pre-existence, where Jesus' birth symbolizes the birth of all of us as spirit children of the Father, Jesus' teaching in the temple symbolizes the Heavenly Council where the Son goes about his Father's business and presents his Father's plan, Jesus growing in knowledge and stature and favor with God prior to his mortal mission, symbolizes our growth as pre-mortal spirits preparatory for entering our own mortal missions , where we are enabled to continued in growth and so forth. John's preparatory work and Jesus' baptism symbolize the creation--baptism is the means of bringing about a new creature or creation. The period following Christ's baptism to the conversation at the well, represent mortality and the application of the Gospel on earth, where: Jesus' journey into the wilderness to be tempted, is symbolic of each of us leaving heaven and descending to fallen earth, there to enter mortality and be tested. Jesus' first public miracle of turning water to wine symbolizes the need for those of us who sin during mortality to undergo a transformation (from the old man of sin to the new man of righteousness), or in other words, it symbolizes the first principle of the Gospel--i.e. faith, in he who has the saving power to transform us. Jesus clearing the temple symbolizes our repentance, where sin is driven out and the temple of our bodies are made again a place for the Father, through His Spirit, to dwell, and where the ordinances of salvation may again be rightly performed. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus symbolizes our being "born again" through baptism. Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well symbolizes our receiving the living waters of the Holy Ghost The period from the clearing of the temple to the women at the well, also represents the afterlife and immortality, where: Jesus' clearing of the temple symbolizes death, where the corruptible body is "driven out" or separated from the temple of the spirit body. Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus symbolizes the resurrection, where the spirits of men are born again into glorified and eternal bodies. and finally, Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well is symbolic of the living water of eternal life,. Granted, it is possible that I may be reading too much into this. But, I don't think so. It seems to all fit rather nicely in my mind, and in a way that is quite moving, if not mind blowing. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  8. As I study the scriptures, particularly using the Church's new home study method, and utilize the many resources for insights provided by the Church and its members, it has become increasingly apparent that the Son out-Jews the Jews. By this I mean that where the Jews are known for their double entendre and symbolism, the words and deeds of the Son are oft packed with many layers of meaning and symbolism. My desire for this thread is for participants to describe their favorite, and perhaps mind blowing multi-layered meaning and symbol-steeped passages of scripture.. This has the potential of being very interesting, at least to me, if not also develop our skills in coming to understand sacred writ after the manner of the Jews. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  9. wenglund

    Not opening priesthood with prayer

    Actually, it doesn't make sense to YOU, whereas it does make sense to others of us (as I painstakingly explained earlier in the thread) as well as the Brethren. Likewise, other policies the Brethren have changed don't make sense to YOU, whereas it does to them and others of us. So, it very much is about YOU. It is YOUR opinion. Have YOU considered the distinct probability that YOU and YOUR opinion are the one not making sense rather than the Brethren? For my part, I was graciously attempting to help YOU to not only see the sense, but if that failed, provide YOU with a way to adapt while YOU don't make sense, or until YOU come to see the sense. Thanks, -Wade Englund-.
  10. wenglund

    TK Smoothies

    By "caught in the past" I mean they haven't progressed to a more complete understanding of the Plan of Salvation available since 1832 -1835 (when D&C 76 was revealed and first published in the Book of Commandments). Their view of Salvation predates the greater light and knowledge received in 1832 So, I see us as say much the same thing. But, if how you say it works for you, then great. [thumbs up] Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  11. wenglund

    TK Smoothies

    My unwitting irony detector is spinning like a fan, which isn't good during cold weather. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  12. wenglund

    TK Smoothies

    I don't know that either of us are in a position to speak on behalf of "we as a church," no matter what our prodigious egos may tell us. However, speaking for myself, and what I have observed on this board and elsewhere, there are members, me somewhat included, who not only fail to fully understand that baptism is a gate to a path, but also how the cleansing that is a part of the baptismal gate, itself, is a form of salvation, let alone what all baptism symbolizes. The same seems to be the case with the notion of "rebirth", "born again," or "born from above," which, interestingly enough, is the subject of this weeks Come Follow Me lesson. Yet, the most serious deficit in understand that I have observed, approaching Nicodemus magnitude, is how certain members fail to grasp how this all relates to the resurrection and multiple kingdoms therein. They don't get how this all points not only to Christ, but his creation of new eternal creatures They are not only 15 years in the past, but seem stick in the binary Protestant view of the afterlife that has been around since ancient times, though they suppose themselves to be something of an expert with knowledge and truth exceeding church leaders and general membership. Even so, as the saying goes, there are some people you just cant reach. Thanks, -Wade Enguojnd-
  13. wenglund

    Not opening priesthood with prayer

    At times I, too, have had silly thoughts cross my mind in response to changes within the Church. including thoughts prompted by an overly narrow reading of scriptures. Maybe there is a bit of the autism in me that renders me resistant to change. However, I try not to be too hard on myself, and see such circumstances instead as cause for increased humility and an opportunity to overcome some of my evident weaknesses. In fact, I wonder if some changes are made just to get me to be more humble and introspective, though that, too, may be just another of my silly thoughts. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  14. wenglund

    February 11 -17

    Yes, it is not uncommon for people to miss the intended messages in Christ's actions and words, and either take things too far or not far enough or in the wrong direction. I suppose it is part of being imperfect humans, particularly the inclination to focus on the sensational at the expense of the subtle and yet profound. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
  15. wenglund

    Not opening priesthood with prayer

    Perhaps it is different for you than it is for me. I tend to bring the Spirit with me from Sacrament meeting. So, the so-called "axing" isn't the least problematic for me. If it still is for you, maybe you could work on bringing the Spirit with you and/or say a silent prayer yourself to evoke the Spirit in the classroom . I don't wish to see your spiritual experience diminished because of what the Brethren were inspired to do for the rest of us. Than ks, -Wade Englund-