How God obtained His Godhood

[Guest tomk]

Here is yet another link. Read it very carefully:

Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement—“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”—accepted as official doctrine by the Church?

Gerald N. Lund, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Feb. 1982, 39–40

Gerald N. Lund, Teacher Support Consultant for the Church Education System.

To my knowledge there has been no “official” pronouncement by the First Presidency declaring that President Snow’s couplet is to be accepted as doctrine. But that is not a valid criteria for determining whether or not it is doctrine.

Generally, the First Presidency issues official doctrinal declarations when there is a general misunderstanding of the doctrine on the part of many people. Therefore, the Church teaches many principles which are accepted as doctrines but which the First Presidency has seen no need to declare in an official pronouncement. This particular doctrine has been taught not only by Lorenzo Snow, fifth President of the Church, but also by others of the Brethren before and since that time.

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“This same doctrine has of course been known to the prophets of all the ages, and President Snow wrote an excellent poetic summary of it.” (Address on Snow Day, given at Snow College, 14 May 1971, pp. 1, 3–4; italics added.)

It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today.

It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today.

acceptable and accepted

Here is the link:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

Gerald N. Lund is a member of the Seventy.

This is looking less and less like "far flung speculation" :)

[Guest tomk]

Just to reiterate, if you'll indulge me:

...Joseph Smith went on to say: 'What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it.'

He is talking about John 5. Verse 19 says: 'The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.'

Meaning the resurrection.

It sure seems that way to me.

Apparently Christ being the "first that should rise" did not apply to Elohim.

[skalenfehl]

Well...He was the first on Earth to resurrect, right?

[Vanhin]

Well...He was the first on Earth to resurrect, right?

Right!

[Guest tomk]

This from an address from President Spencer W. Kimball:

God has taken these intelligences, given to them spirit bodies, and given them instructions and training. Then he proceeded to create a world for them and sent them as spirits to obtain a mortal body, for which he made preparation. And when they were upon the earth, he gave them instructions on how to go about developing and conducting their lives to make them perfect, so they could return to their Father in heaven after their transitions. Then came the periods of time when souls were to be placed upon the earth and born to parents who were permitted to furnish the bodies. But no parent has ever yet on this earth been the parent of a spirit, because we are so far yet from perfection. Remember what was said a while ago, that “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.”They came with the definite understanding that they could return to become like God and go forward in their great development and progress.

Link to the full article:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Our Great Potential

[Guest tomk]

Right!

I agree.

[skalenfehl]

yeah...so? (referring to the article)

[Vanhin]

It sure seems that way to me.

Apparently Christ being the "first that should rise" did not apply to Elohim.

Nor did it apply to countless others who have entered exaltation from the innumerable worlds that the Father has created by his Son, before ours, according to the book of Moses.

Throughout all the eternities, God the Father is God, and so is the Son, if the scriptures are true.

On a different note, our world seems to be pretty special, seeing that the Savior of all mankind was born here, and performed the Atonement here.

Vanhin

[Guest tomk]

The Nature of Man

Not only do we know that God possesses a glorified body of flesh and bones, but from this restored understanding of the nature of God flows the Latter-day Saint belief regarding our nature and potential. The Prophet Joseph Smith once taught: “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, … and that He was once a man like us. … When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them.” 5

that He was once a man like us

LIKE US (meaning, just like regular people, Gods in embryo, as we are right now. In this context... YES ... Elohim was "always" a God ... He just went through levels of maturation ... but was always a GOD by species, just as Tom, Skal, and Vanhin are "gods -- in embryo". We don't magically turn into Gods. We already are "gods" in that one day we will have a fullness of His Glory -- as His children.)

LINK:

LDS.org - Liahona Article - The Fulness of the Gospel: The Nature of the Godhead

[Guest tomk]

yeah...so? (referring to the article)

::: lost :::::

[skalenfehl]

Nor did it apply to countless others who have entered exaltation from the innumerable worlds that the Father has created by his Son, before ours, according to the book of Moses.

Throughout all the eternities, God the Father is God, and so is the Son, if the scriptures are true.

On a different note, our world seems to be pretty special, seeing that the Savior of all mankind was born here, and performed the Atonement here.

Vanhin

From what I've learned over the years, only His own people (Jews) would be so hard hearted and stiff necked to miss their own Savior and cause Him to be crucified. Here (Earth) would be found the most wicked and also the most righteous of all of God's children (opposition in all things). This is my understanding, though, and not official doctrine that I am yet aware of.

[skalenfehl]

::: lost :::::

Never mind, bud. I think you are making some discoveries here and while I have been trying to provide answers you have discovered them as you went along. We're crossing wavelengths or something.

[Guest tomk]

Never mind, bud. I think you are making some discoveries here and while I have been trying to provide answers you have discovered them as you went along. We're crossing wavelengths or something.

Just showing those who read this post that there are "two or more witnesses" of these things.

My posts have not been responding to anyone. Just giving proofs.

[skalenfehl]

I must have misread or misinterpreted the first three paragraphs in your very first post then, but I'm glad we understand each other now and agree on the topic.

[Misshalfway]

My understanding is that God was once like the Savior.....not like us. We can become like him, but not without help. Christ didn't need any help.

[kona0197]

Wow. At this point I can barely wrap my mind around eternity much less How God became God.

[skalenfehl]

Wow. At this point I can barely wrap my mind around eternity much less How God became God.

I can only imagine, kona. This is a relatively profound topic.

[Misshalfway]

Wow. At this point I can barely wrap my mind around eternity much less How God became God.

I can't wrap my mind around it either. I think my knowledge about this kind of stuff is the very tips of the branches of my tree, if you follow me. It is the basics -- the gospel and my activity in working together with the Lord in my mundane everyday stuff that I really see the power and truth and feel absolutely sure.

[Guest tomk]

My understanding is that God was once like the Savior.....not like us. We can become like him, but not without help. Christ didn't need any help.

That is a common misconception. In fact, the opposite was true. The Father powered the Savior through all of it. It was through the grace of the Father, and the Father's example, that Christ was able to do what He did, including the Atonement.

How many times did Christ say, "I of my ownself can do nothing" ??

[Guest tomk]

I can't wrap my mind around it either. I think my knowledge about this kind of stuff is the very tips of the branches of my tree, if you follow me. It is the basics -- the gospel and my activity in working together with the Lord in my mundane everyday stuff that I really see the power and truth and feel absolutely sure.

It is in living the basics that an understanding of these things can come to pass for each of us.

[Misshalfway]

Oh I see what you are saying. And I agree. I guess I meant that he didn't need the atonement himself.

I was trying to describe that Jesus was and is sinless.

[Guest tomk]

Oh I see what you are saying. And I agree. I guess I meant that he didn't need the atonement himself.

I was trying to describe that Jesus was and is sinless.

I agree. He didn't need it, and He was sinless.

Sometimes I wonder -- He didn't "need" it - but He Himself was resurrected through what He did. He didn't do it for that reason, but He did forge His own resurrection through the Atonement.

[Misshalfway]

Sometimes I wonder -- He didn't "need" it - but He Himself was resurrected through what He did. He didn't do it for that reason, but He did forge His own resurrection through the Atonement.

Hmmm. Good point.