Starfish

Isn't it ironic that some gays want marriage, when many heterosexual couples who can and should be married, choose not to? I think they want general public acceptance.

Every other year our stake performs The Messiah, by Handel. To me this is Christmas. I grew up with this music and believe it's some of the most inspired music ever written. Even though our stake is made up of rural small towns, this performance is very professional with a small orchestra and top-notch soloists--well almost top-notch. We invite the community at no charge. When we get to stand for the Hallelujah Chorus, I'm goose-bumpy and choked up.

Keep the religious side in. We all should. Sometimes, on the years when Christmas falls on Sundays, I get annoyed that church "interferes" with our day. Then I remember what the day is SUPPOSED to be about, and change my attitude. Our typical day is get up at 7 and not a minute earlier (big rule when the kids were little), open presents, eat breakfast, play with presents, visit relatives, and eat again. Church events usually happen earlier in the week/month to leave the big day for family events. Someday I want to get to Temple Square and see the lights. .

I never knew that. "Christ Mass", of course, how logical. Never occurred to me. Thanks.

I believe most states in the US offer that option, or something similar, also.

I've exercised regularly (walking, biking, aerobics) for 30 years. Still gained weight, though probably not as much as I would have. Then I found Weight Watchers. 3-1/2 months later, the extra 20 lbs is gone! Still exercising, except I've added running. (I LOVE the exercise by proxy idea. Too bad I can't eat by proxy. I'll eat--you can have the calories!)

Hi Tams, Ask your son in your next email what the other missionaries are getting. My son's mission had a no-food rule, but he told us the others were all getting food, so we sent food. (Non-perishable; we sent candy and treats, but no chocolate because it might melt.) Also, I found that if I wrote "missionary supplies" on the forms, it usually made it to him. (He was in So. America.) The frustrating thing is that our post office would tell me that it would arrive in, say, 3-4 weeks. Well it would arrive in the COUNTRY in that time, but who knows how long they let it sit on some dock, or in some post office before delivering. Sometimes many weeks more. Typically it took several months.

Over generalization. You'll find mixed preferences wherever you go. I don't drink Coke. I prefer Fresca.:)

Okay, I'm stepping out of this thread. The evidence is sufficient.

Hmmmm. Tough one. I think I'd work on keeping my marriage intact. I don't believe it's an "either-or" situation. She married an inactive Mormon and expects that to stay as is. That's what she bargained for. However, the Spirit is pulling you back. So consider doing all you can to be close to the Church without upseting your wife. BE THE BEST HUSBAND IN THE WORLD--or at least the best you can be. Be loving, considerate, kind, gentle, etc. etc. At the same time, read the BoM, study, read the Ensign online. She will notice a difference in you and eventually, through your prayers, she will soften. Don't be dishonest. Don't sneak around. Don't go behind her back. But do pray & fast. Miracles happen! They really do. Be patient.

I don't mind posting these. I've had this conversation online many times. Don't you hate long posts? Sorry. John Adams and John Hancock: We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775] John Adams: “ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” • “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” –John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798 "I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson "Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] | .......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context! Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams “ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia] “ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790] John Quincy Adams:• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"? --1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts. “The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.” John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61 Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin “ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech “In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787] In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone." Alexander Hamilton:• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great: (1) Christianity (2) a Constitution formed under Christianity. “The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.” On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.” "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention] "I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man." John Hancock:• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations. "A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775" Patrick Henry: "Orator of the Revolution." • This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.” —The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry “It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses] Thomas Jefferson“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.” “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.” "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." James Madison“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.” “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia] • I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way. Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773) George Washington: Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..." “ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.” “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779] "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge] Quotes of the Founders : Founding Fathers quotes on religion, faith, Christianity

I've heard this many times, from those denying the Christianity of our founding fathers. At best, they say, they were Deists. Exactly. God DID create this world, and He DID step back for a time--the Apostasy. The frustration those men felt was likely due to the fact that the true religion wasn't here. There are so many quotes by the FF's that state their Christianity. I could post them, but they're easy to look up.

Oligith, Why you have this affliction, why my grandchildren have autism, why my mother died when I was a child, are all questions I plan to ask when I meet God. Thankyou for sharing. Your trial surpasses most, if not all.

Been there! Just so you know, some of us made it. I married my missionary about 6 months after he got home. (That was 32 years ago.:)) His mission was a great blessing to us all these years. Sooooooo worth it!!!! Count Fast Sundays. You know how OFTEN they come around. If your elder has been out 9 months, then you have only 15 Fast Sundays left!

Oh Myway, the answer is two words: The Atonement. Christ has taken your sins upon Himself and payed for them. Through repentence, this great gift is yours. Focus your study on the Atonement. Pray to understand it. It is the answer to your unhappiness.

In the past 30 years, I could count on one hand the number of times missionaries have knocked on my door. I suggest you put up a No Soliciting sign. OTOH, have you considered that the Lord may be sending them to you? Maybe He's trying to get your attention . . .:)

Hmmm--thinking hard . . . I've never felt I was racist. To be honest, I do mentally "profile" people. When someone obviously of Arab descent boards my plane, I take notice. Is that wrong? I also notice when I am in an environment where I (white) am largely outnumbered . . . but maybe that's just not wanting to not stand out. Also, I don't want my small town to fill up with Mexican-looking stores. The reason is that many of them are unattractive. (Meaning the stores that sell everything from wedding dresses to bakery goods, and display it all in the front window.) I'm sorry, but that's tacky. I LOVE it when I'm in Mexico, because it's so . . . Mexican, and the diversity is fun to see. I'm not talking about the restaurants or shops that feature ethnic souvenirs and merchandise. And I would object to any unsightly business, no matter who ran it. I just don't want it filling my mainstreet in the USA. If I'm being racist, then let me have it. (You wanted honesty.) I also feel all non-English-speaking people who choose to live in the USA should learn English. Our country should not have to translate everything for them. Is that racist? I do welcome anyone of any race to move in next door to me, as long as they keep their lawn mowed and their dog quiet. A good neighbor is a good neighbor. I feel above all, and have said so here many times, that ALL people are God's children, equally loved by Him, and should be treated with RESPECT.

I guess it also depends on your experience with traditional, mainstream Christianity. Having always been LDS, I have no experience with the above Christianity, other than to have always felt a kinship as fellow worshippers of Christ. So I've never minded sharing the title. But my every instinct cannot reject the title. I AM Christian because I follow Christ. This is what the ancient saints were called. So I say I'm not mainstream Christian, but yes, I am a Christian. I don't think either is wrong here. Just personal preference. Except it may get confusing to the non-LDS.

Wow. Thanks.

Doesn't it just boil down to: 1. personal responsibility, doing all we can to provide for ourselves and our family, in addition to 2. generous and appropriate help to the poor and needy, through 3. agency, as true charity is not forced

Okay! Yes it IS overwhelming. But READ the latest counsel from the Church. It says to store 3 months of food--the stuff you eat everyday, and THEN work on the long term stuff--wheat, dry milk, rice, etc. 3 months--so doable! One trip to your local warehouse grocery store and you can get most of it. Start there--THEN worry about long term. Remember this. If you can only afford a couple of cans of corn (or whatever) this week towards your storage, then that's enough! Do that much. You are being obedient and are entitled to the Lord's blessings in times of need! Repeat: Do what you can and you will be obedient, entitling you and your family to the blessings. Always pay your tithing. When you've done the best you can, you have no need to fear. Does that help?

Hi PC, I always appreciate your posts.We deny the doctrines of Christian history following the death of the apostles which ushered in the worldwide apostacy. We feel we embrace the doctrine taught by Jesus Christ while he was here on the earth--hence the restoration. We are not worshipers of Mormon. He was one of many prophets (approx. 400 AD) and was responsible for compiling the Book of Mormon into the volume that Joseph Smith translated. We worship Christ, so we feel we must use His name in our title. We are the church of Jesus Christ, not the church of Mormon, nor the church of Joseph Smith, for that matter.

I agree with all of you so far.

Mosiah 2: 14 And even I, myself, have labored with mine own hands that I might serve you, and that ye should not be laden with taxes, and that there should nothing come upon you which was grievous to be borne—and of all these things which I have spoken, ye yourselves are witnesses this day. Mosiah 18: 24 And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had ordained should labor with their own hands for their support. 27: 4-5 That they should let no pride nor haughtiness disturb their peace; that every man should esteem his neighbor as himself, laboring with their own hands for their support. Yea, and all their priests and teachers should labor with their own hands for their support, in all cases save it were in sickness, or in much want; and doing these things, they did abound in the grace of God. Alma 30: 32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people. Marion G. Romney, of the 1st Presidency, 1982 (emphasis, mine) We cannot afford to become wards of the government, even if we have a legal right to do so. It requires too great a sacrifice of self-respect and in political, temporal, and spiritual independence. In some countries it is extremely difficult to separate earned from unearned benefits. However, the principle is the same in all countries: We should strive to become self-reliant and not depend on others for our existence. We know there are some who for no reason of their own cannot become self-reliant. President Henry D. Moyle had these people in mind when he said: “This great principle does not deny to the needy nor to the poor the assistance they should have. The wholly incapacitated, the aged, the sickly are cared for with all tenderness, but every able-bodied person is enjoined to do his utmost for himself to avoid dependence, if his own efforts can make such a course possible; to look upon adversity as temporary; to combine his faith in his own ability with honest toil; to rehabilitate himself and his family to a position of independence; in every case to minimize the need for help and to supplement any help given with his own best efforts. “We believe [that] seldom [do circumstances arise in which] men of rigorous faith, genuine courage, and unfaltering determination, with the love of independence burning in their hearts, and pride in their own accomplishments, cannot surmount the obstacles that lie in their paths. LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Celestial Nature of Self-reliance

Thanks Kitty, How interesting. And everything on the list tastes good. Score!