MikeUpton

the answer in my case has laid in faith and humility. these were two areas I needed to work on in order to not be fed up with the difficulties of my life. when you believe in god, have a knowledge of his goodness and in his attributes, and you believe he is those things, and when you believe that all he does is for your benefit. and when you can say thank you to God, even in your difficulty, (I even began to feel as Paul, and thanked him for my difficulties, because I know that God is wise above all and does all things for my benefit.) when you can say thanks for all you have in your life, and especially when you trust in God so much that you are willing to do anything he asks, this is the faith and humility he seeks, and your burdens will be lifted, and you will find great joy in life.

Have any of you ever thought of what it might be like, if say 20 or so odd years down the road, say for example, your future daughter was reading the things you wrote and thinking about you? To all of my future family who may read my posts at this later date, whenever it may be, i love you!

Stuff like this is very appropriate. :) It will happen soon. Maybe not in 2012, and definitely not in the way or for the reasons they give, but it is definitely time to really put one's focus on the Lord's kingdom. I look forward to it. :)

I am exactly who I say I am.

Meaning that they are consistently bad?

I apologize for my assumption. The answer is not to tear down, but to build. There are ways of doing this which simply require ingenuity for recognizing opportunity in its many forms, seeing wealth not in limited terms in the hands of the few, but in terms of abundance (you just need to learn how to work the system to make it work for you in your own way). Its always wise to lean on the Lord for help in these matters, and he can help you see opportunity when it comes. It helps if you're always looking. And it may well take faith like unto Nephi. Why not take this matter to the Lord, pray and ask his opinion? Perhaps he will show you. My personal belief is that if you're really upset by "The Man," then become "The Man". Then if you're still upset, you can kick him in the pants by providing good competition.

Who here likes a certain political candidate who's name I probably shouldn't mention, (but heck he's not a candidate anymore, so I don't know how this could be said to conflict with the rule) Mitt Romney. I sure like him :) Mitt Romney's New $12 Million California House that is true, but he hasn't sold that 150 million dollar house yet to move to suburbia . his foundation is worth 30 billion. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

This is a correct principle, one that God would have us develop in ourselves. We first seek for wisdom, we first seek the Kingdom of God, then we find riches if we seek them, especially when it is to bless the sick and afflicted. Other requirements to riches may come into play, especially where it comes to the issue of your willingness to drop everything and do as the Lord asks, and not lift yourself up unto pride. One must admit that it is a far easier principle to apply with great outward success in America, it would be more difficult in the Phillipines due to the nature of the economy. But remember that the principle remains the same, and still applies in the Phillipines as well as it does in the US (though your struggle may be a lot more difficult.) I did not intend to imply in my previous comment that your situation is helpless.

Your reply is probably accurate in the Phillipines. I suppose we have a different culture, government, etc here in the United States, and so Americans most often tend to think along those terms. edit: (american terms focusing on personal power.)

Maybe we ought to close the thread, I didn't think of all the people that might read it and hurt. Rico was right about that.

dude it was a joke. Its just a saying I use, it means nothing. I've never had anyone take offense to it before. Why are you? I know what its like to suffer, but I don't persecute the rich because of their riches. When I see someone who drives a beautiful car or lives in a beautiful home I am happy for them. It makes me smile. I don't instead feel entitled to their riches. I know that you have a problem with diabetes, were I wealthy I would do my best to help you. But I can't right now. Believe me, it breaks my heart. Look me up in a couple years. I, like you right now, live on next to nothing. But it wont be for long. inbox me and I can give you my email. keep in touch if you want. Im going to bed now.

I am not wealthy. I simply do not judge the rich with the harshness others do, but I have charity for my brother who does well, and i am very happy when he succeeds. I love to see people doing well, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm going to lose the blessing for this, (I ought to do my alms in secret) however this is not to brag, but to make my point: I've given friends in the phillipines and vietnam the money from my own pocket until it hurt. I gave a starving girl in Vietnam (i know her very well, it was not a scam) $700 when i had next to nothing except that amount, but i knew i could still eat and have a place to live. That is how I know how much it takes to live in Vietnam, because she was only making 30 bucks a month and she would get very upset when I talked about food. So I finally got her to explain to me. If the time comes that I am that superwealthy, I will most likely drive that 400k rolls and live in a 30 million dollar mansion AND give most of my money to the poor. But if I was anywhere near to it being a burden on me being able to help, I would not buy those things. I know the difference between like and appreciation, and lust.

You're taking things to an unnecessary extreme. Show me where a GA says the super wealthy need to donate their entire livelihood until they're living as a middle class American, and I'll give you a nice relatively shiny quarter. Until then, I'm sticking with my understanding. The answer to your question, is, if I knew a brother that needed the money more than I did, yes, at this income I make, I would forgo the new car. Your assumptions are not helping your point. LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Beware Lest Thou Forget the Lordâ€

Then do not go into debt over one. Being in debt, or hurting one's ability to help was never my point in using the car as an example. I agree, its an extra in almost all cases. So is a cd player. See my above post at the top of this page.

those 150 people could be working and eating, and helping their family, boy we oughtta be ashamed we don't live like the people in Vietnam do, on 50 dollars a month. Like I said, middle class Americans saying everyone ought to live as they do (especially the filthy sinful rich) Edit: sorry if i seem brash.

what if that man was already spending over 95 percent of his net worth to do that very thing, and could still well afford it? I could see it in the context you're talking about, if he wasn't a man of that sort of means. Anyone want to attempt to address this question as it pertains to the hypothetical case of the super rich? are the super rich really required to live as the middle class do? Or are we judging them by our perceptions of what is right for us? I am convinced wealth is a relative thing. Its seems really difficult to get people to think about a position where a person might not be required to go into debt over a 1 million dollar car, and have it not even be a marginal blip on the radar for them. But such situations do exist.

There is a place in the world for magnificence in whatever field of work you choose. Even to the extent that the thing you create is among the finest in the world. The important part of the scriptures referring to "lifting themselves up to wearing costly apparel" is the "lifting themselves up" part. "Lifting one's self up" does not necessarily follow (or precede) wearing costly apparel as night follows day. I don't believe that was what the Book of Mormon was trying to explain. It was instead warning against pride. Perceptions do not constitute reality, if you cannot think of a good reason someone might have purchased something, it may well be that this is simply because you cannot think of the reason.

Its only fair this car has a mention: YouTube - Maybach Exelero an 8 million dollar car, although the video looks a bit older. The Maybach Exelero. the Bugatti looks amazing. that is fast I could probably get by just fine on something similar to a Volkswagen CC, if i were a wealthy man or no. I think the car is pretty, and it seems relatively well made. Its not in the same class as the other cars we've mentioned, obviously. But it would fit the bill just fine for getting to where ever you need to go. 2009 Volkswagen Passat CC Front Three Quarters View Photo Starting price: $27k.

i was going by youtube vids on it, . Where do you get one for 400k? I really like the rolls-royce but i used it as an example here also partly because the price tag seemed ludicrous. There are other cars out there :).Thanks for the answer Hemi, I'd been curious to know what you thought.

maybe I have been wrong. "It is not the amount of money that we donate to the Church or others that matters to the Lord. Rather it is whether we give of our abundance or of our living. We should give until it is a sacrifice to give." LDS.org - Ensign Article - Words of Jesus: Riches "...To those who have in abundance, even more than you need, I say: Find happiness in the relationships and service you share with God, family, and others. Resist the feeling of constantly needing things just to entertain yourself and occupy your time. We have the scriptures and books of all kinds available. Conversation and service are a better use of time than watching television. Casting in all that you have will be so much more rewarding than the alternative of personal gratification." Elder William R. Bradford, Quorom of the Seventy I don't know yet. But even that statement is meant to be taken within reason, and my difficulty has been finding where that reason is. I'll keep looking for it. I never intended to say that one ought to go to the extreme of constantly looking and needing the material things, purchasing and buying. My attitude was more to the idea that a few nice things would be okay, not to be worshipped, but because you like those things. We have all factored in how much we like something to some extent (notice i say like and not love and worship) when we make a purchase. Actually I'm still not convinced I'm wrong, to be perfectly honest. I already do seek personal improvement through reading the scriptures and other books on the Gospel. I wouldn't quit doing this if I were to be rich. Self improvement defines me as a person. I love it, and I am so passionate about it, and I love people, and I know they're better than any material thing. I'm not the kind of person who would buy something with such a price tag ever mistaking that it was in any way better than a person. Or use a million dollar car to say I to others I was better than them. All things that I've even posted above are even speaking about one's heart, and whether they are pursuing the Gospel, or the things of the world. Purchasing a car that is commonly considered "flashy" by many doesn't necessarily automatically mean your heart is in the wrong place, or that you are pursuing incorrect things. I still don't subscribe to the idea that it is asset or liability that causes something to be wrong or vanity without regard to price, because every time you bought a candy bar, you'd be committing sin! That is, if you(atrain) were implying that purchasing the car would somehow be sin in that frame. And for the super rich who can make a million quickly (with no loss to principle), a Phantom would be a relative to them, what a candy bar is for most. This asset/liability thing is something I have never heard a general authority say. They only speak of denying yourself the nicer stuff when it hurts your ability to help. And I don't think giving up 1,000,000 would be much of a sacrifice for a man who had quickly got his million in the manner I described. However, giving up 19,950,000,000 out of 20,000,000,000 could be well said to be a sacrifice that hurt. (yes, I did put in the zeroes for effect, sue me):) So okay, I guess I have to admit I'm really not making much progress towards thinking the car(as an extra) would somehow be bad in and of itself. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't sound right. It seems a lot more like something to do with assumptions when it comes to others having the car, and self image, in the case of one's self. If God wanted it all(and I mean all) from me, it would be in my best interest to give it to him. And I know he does. But he generally seems to allow us to have nice things within reason. If he wanted those too, I know that i ought to give them to him. If he wanted to take the very food I eat and the water I drink and the clothes I wear, it would be my duty to give them to him with a willing heart. I just don't know if that is what he is asking. I think he is asking us to be willing to do that if needed. BTW, some of the most humble, spiritual, most Christlike people I have ever met live in mansions and drive sweet cars:). They can also be among the best of friends too. However, I'm enjoying this debate. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions atrain.

If there's ever a question of whether to confess more or clarify, it can be a difficult thing to clarify, as well as confess (I've made my own mistakes) it is always wise to just bring it up, clarify it, just tell him, hey, this wasnt just once that it happened. Aside from that, remember that that after we our forgiven by the church and the Lord, often one of the most difficult things in life we need to do is simply this: forgiving ourselves. Bytor was right, this is an important step. One night on my mission I lay in bed with a heavy heart, but could not understand what it was that was bothering me. The prompting came that even after all of the repentance I had done for my "colorful" teen years, I had somehow never forgiven myself, but i ought to. I prayed to Heavenly Father, asking him to give me strength and power to do this thing, because it was so difficult for me. I felt his Spirit rushing in, I felt a great relief come over me as I finally forgave myself that night.

That sounds like a winner.

Haha, no you just buy a seperate vehicle at 1/30th of the cost to do that. You could however get a million dollar laugh with it :). Simply attach a bumper sticker to the back that said "My Other Car Is A Ford Pinto." I gotta admit that would be very tempting. But, no, not at a million dollars. Maybe if there was a way to attach the sticker without the sticky part of the sticker.

Part of the reason I enjoy this topic is because to my mind it brings to light one of the central aspects of what the Gospel is about. Many people have adapted the belief in their life that the Gospel is teeth gritting, mind numbing, bone breaking perfectionism. Or that it is about purchasing the middle class non luxury car while thinking all who drive up in a car nicer than yours are going to hell. (People often are not aware they believe this, but it does show up in their attitudes.) Or perhaps some strive all their lives so they can feel they are a good person and be considered wealthy by many, until the day when the new guy shows up in a car worth as much as their house. Then they curse him bitterly because he's winning the game of who the good guy is. Surely he can't be better than you! He must be worse! Or having the idea that their perception of what they might think of life in some way constitutes reality, and thus rely on their perception rather than seeking new information from the Lord, and then trying to live the Gospel without asking God for new light and understanding. It all begins to sound similar to certain groups we read about in the New Testament. I believe the Gospel of Christ is about none of this. I believe there is one very central feature of the Gospel of Jesus Christ: it is the sort of humility that causes you to yield yourself to God's will, putting his will in place of your own. This aspect ought to constitute much of our focus in life. All other aspects of the Gospel seem to fall in behind this neatly. We yield ourselves to believe and have faith. We yield ourselves to accept the atonement of Christ, and allow his teachings in our lives. We yield ourselves to follow the teachings of Christ. We yield our resources and talents so the Lord might be able to make use of them. We yield ourselves to God by seeking inspiration and using our best judgment to think about about situations we might be in, then asking God if we are correct, and yielding to his counsel. We yield to God by drinking in the principles of the gospel, growing in a spiritual understanding of what they mean, and then submitting our lives to live by these principles. We yield ourselves to God when we do our best at the workplace, because that is what the Lord would want us to do. Instead of fretting and worrying whether things are perfect, causing us to look beyond the mark and miss it, shouldn't we be instead focusing on submitting to God's will and finding peace that after we've done all we can to give our will to God, things are going to work out and be okay? In the end, we often cast judgment on others we know nothing of. Sometimes we think our perceptions constitute reality, rather than provide an imperfect representation. And we don't seek out more light. Then we judge others with harshness who do not meet our expectations. This could be said to be the opposite of this yielding to God that we ought to seek after in our lives. Consider this aspect of pride as spoken of by Ezra Taft Benson in his great article on the subject of pride: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Beware of Pride In the end, can a super-rich billionaire who loves God with all of his heart, and continually seeks to yield to him, keeps all of God's commandments to his best ability, has faith in Jesus Christ and utilizes the atonement, loves his fellow man, bought a one million dollar phantom because he liked it and felt he related in some way to the car, and had a 20 million dollar home, but gave the majority, say 20 billion dollars of his money to the purpose of serving the Lord, will he not get into the celestial kingdom of God and find that his Father in Heaven is pleased with him? I believe he will. (And I also believe i just made a run-on sentence.) I believe he will be asked (perhaps you will be too) to give a stewardship and accounting of his wealth, and how he has used it for the betterment of others. But I don't think the main questions asked will be things like whether he purchased and enjoyed a very expensive (in relativity to American middle class) car that constituted .005 percent of his entire net worth. I believe it will be a lot closer to him being asked "Did you use the money the way I wanted you to?" And I do believe there will be some room for enjoyment that will have a whole lot less to do with the American middle class perception of what is a lot of money, and a whole lot more to do with what the Lord felt was okay. But hey, if I am wrong in all of this, I do seek that the Lord might give me new light and understanding concerning this thing, and it would be in my best interest to throw out my old understanding in favor of the way the Lord would explain it. So far I think I'm on the mark. In saying these things about pride, I am not making the claim that I am without pride, because I know good and well where my heart is, and I know that I lack humility. But I'm doing my best to yield, and that's all anybody can do.

i like that commercial