brother01

1. We believe we are spirit sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father: Matthew 5:48, Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Romans 8:16-17, The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Ephesians 4:6, One God and Father of all.… Hebrews 12:9, Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? With this we find agreement:-) Ever wonder how some are said by Jesus to be of their father, Satan?

Thanks for the encouragement FernRL. Believe it or not, I've had visitors from around the world and you are the first to give me some feedback!!!!! It's been a labor of love for the Lord and the seeming fact that so many believe that to simply claim the name is all that is required! To you and Chad, As for the Sabbath issue on the last page, after extensive study I could find no other firm word other than what God and Jesus Christ have given. Even the 'Lord's day' and the 'first day of the week' fail the muster when studied deeper. I'd like to discuss it more, but recommend hearing out the two lessons that Chuch Missler did with his radio program. His web site is khouse.org It wouldn't take much looking around to find it. SDA have their reasons, but he isn't SDA and is more of an independent expert on the Scriptures. He's starting a new study on Revelation that is particularly interesting. For me it hinges on what Jesus taught. Some would say Jesus was teaching against the Sabbath by His healing on that day, yet I think we would both agree that He was teaching that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath - which is what He repeatedly said!!! Not that He was against the Sabbath, as it is the only day Jesus claimed to be Lord of!!! I did go to the SDA, but the speaker was a disappointment. He was teaching that we need to go behind the veil with Jesus for judgement so that we aren't taken by Satan or something like that. My understanding is that behind the veil we find both the law of God and the Mercy seat, which is figurative of the role of Jesus Chirst - mercy is not judgement!!!!! Tomorrow is another day:-)

I think you're pretty much right. Jesus taught that to belong to Him we must will to do what He said to do and believe what He declared to be true. If we are in those things and have the will to do His will - even though we aren't perfect - so long as we abide in Him, He will abide with us. The anti-Christ has no part with Jesus Christ. As such, I doubt that would include any Church that wills to do His will and abides in the teachings of God the Father that He came to give and live and witness to.

No words on 132? Anyway, in my listing of the commandments and precepts of Jesus there are over 200 in both Matthew and Luke and 70 or so in Mark and John was profound enough that I hesitate to say, except there must be over 100. As Jesus said, 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. I'm sure angels have a lot of laws, but wasn't it Paul who said that keeping the commandments of Jesus is a joy and not a grief to bear?

Another law is to not bear false witness and yet another is that God cannot lie and is true to His word in that He upholds it higher than His name. Per the teachings of Jesus, Mt 4:4; ”It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'" John 6:63,64; "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe." John 7:16,17; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." John 14:23,24; "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." Mt 23:8-12; "But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren." John 15:9,10; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you, abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." http://www.onediscipletoanother.org So, if these words are true, then if we don't at least will to keep His word, as given once for all, then is our faith in vain? When Jesus said: "It is finished", what was finished? Did Jesus give new teachings after the resurrection? or did He reveal the depth of what had already been said or taken place? Is the gospel eternal? I think it is. Therefore, anything not clearly traceable to the words given at the beginning I believe I must reject. I'm wondering about the quote of D&C 132 as the law of the Holy Spirit. How so?

Just looking at the Word of Wisdom thread and thinking about how this relates to Isaiah 40:31, which has a like promise from God and wondering how LDS see the two. LDS often quote the WOW, but not the Isaiah verse. I'd love to hear what you think about it. "But those who wait on the LORD Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint."

That's cute:-), 'just add water'. I see it a matter of obedience; the doing of whatsoever Jesus commanded. How do you think they would answer if it were put to them that way? To Islander: If you go to my web site and look at the last link on the home page I've started some review of the life of the disciple - to explore the living out the teachings of Jesus. One of the first things covered is the Sabbath. In my study of the topic the matter seems to be indisputable. Then in my secondary review to see the book of Mormon perspective of the plain teachings, it also agreed! Now that perplexed me somewhat, as LDS keep the day of the Sun instead, as does the Roman Catholic Church. If Jesus didn't change the Law, nor Peter or Paul or any other apostle, why would we think anyone would? Didn't Jesus and God throughout the Scriptures affirm the Sabbath as the seventh day? Even in the book of Mormon it is exactly the same - why do differently? I did a search on the BOM from the LDS web site to search it and that is where that information came from. Check into it yourself. Don't take my word for it. As for me, I'm going to the SDA today, but haven't made the commitment as I might think I should if that is what I believe is true. It's a difficult concept to live in practicality. Just as many of Jesus' teachings are simple, yet profound. But His promise is that if we do what He said we will know it is of God and true. Forgiveness and love are also profound topics of beautiful simplicity, yet much more is involved to live them than to simply declare they are true!:-) Thanks for your kind words:-)

It's been my understanding that LDS believe the Bible and the book of Mormon to contain the same gospel of Jesus Christ. Would you agree? I cannot think of one doctrine found in the book of Mormon that I don't believe, yet as the doctrines are the same, and the commandments of Jesus Christ, as well as His doctrine from God the Father, are far better accounted for in the Bible. If I'm wrong, just humor me with the numbering as I've done on my site for the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. As your sacrament prayer states, we keep the commandments of Jesus as part of our covenant with Him...or as He put it: "Why do you call Me Lord if you don't do what I say?" If He is our Lord, surely we do as He said:-) And since that is where Jesus put the matter it seems more as Paul said "I am of Paul or of Apollos" instead of being of Jesus Christ..... That's the way I tend to see it anyway...any comment?

My web site about the teachings of Jesus Christ is the conclusion of my thoughts on the things that divide between Evangelicals and Mormons and every other Christian for that matter. Listed above as necessary are 'Trinity, salvation by grace alone, infallibility of the Bible, and the all too used 'etc.' This is as opposed to 'Polytheism, baptismal regeneration, plain and precious truths' etc.' Dang those 'etc.':-) Jesus said we will be judged by the words He gave, which He said had been received by the disciples, which He said those who abide in them will be glorified with Him and one with Him as He is one with God the Father. Yet, by His teaching, the very words from God, not His own doctrine, we cannot find some things of the Evangelicals and some things of the Mormons. In fact I have never found a Church that takes the great commission to heart so much as to say their doctrine is to believe and do whatsoever Jesus taught! I'm still looking though, and hoping:-) One Disciple to Another

I've always counted on the book of Hebrews regarding this matter. The commandments of God about sacrifice for sin is best given in the OT law and the book of Hebrews explained the gospel to the Hebrews, who needed to understand how the law foreshadowed the gospel of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The book covers the matter quite well. Have you studied it yet?

You might find it enlightening to compare the teachings of Jesus in the NT to the teachings of Jesus in the D&C.

When the abuser is someone we are taught that we have to honor it can screw with the sense of right and wrong we should have. My experience with a similar matter put me into therepy for over a year. I had to rebuild every sense from the ground up. Jesus said we are not to be angry without cause. You have cause. Don't buy the line that we have to forgive when someone doesn't repent. Look at what Jesus said on the topic. He said if they repent and ask for forgiveness that we are to forgive them. We also find in the Scriptures that when someone keeps going back and offending us that we are not to have anything to do with them. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Not that the whole world is going to repent and believe to access the forgiveness that alone is in Him. What that means to us as believers is that we can take that offense - spiritually speaking - and put it at the foot of the cross and know that He will make things right in His ways and His time. Sometimes when the matter is something that is deep inside us, as childhood abuse is, we may find ourselves at the foot of that cross a number of times:-) Protect yourself and those who cannot defend themselves. Abuse is not a parental right.

When I first got married the wife's son was in the Bishopric in the greater LA area and I wanted to know more about the LDS Church and the reason they believe that priesthood authority is required to administer baptism. He sent me some things that were photocopies of book pages and it seemed to hinge upon belief that the authority had to come from John the Baptist. It's been years, but off hand that's what comes to mind. Granted, Jesus taught that the apostles make disciples, teaching them whatsoever He had taught them, and that they were to baptize these disciples. That is the commandment of Jesus Christ. Then we find that in Acts that the apostles were baptizing for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost as an eternal promise of God to all generations. I marvel at those who just want to skip by this promise of God and want to put their future in other things...but that is them:-) So in the pages the link was made to the restoration of the fathers to the children and children to the fathers and somehow equating that to the restored gospel by Joseph Smith. Knowing that Jesus said this was about John, when I didn't see the connection. I saw no connection for an authority of ordinance in the NT gospel record, so I saw no need to believe the restored authority from John to Joseph. I experienced the gift of God when I was baptized per the promise of God as Peter preached, so it seems perfectly faithful and logical and reasonable and faithful to leave it be as experieced instead of thinking there is a need for more than hearing, believing, repenting, confessing and being baptized for the right reasons. As Jesus taught, we know the commandments are true because when we do them we receive witness from God that they are true. That's my perspective anyway....

About ten years ago someone declared I was a 'non-Mormon Mormon'.:-) One local member said I was an 'honorary Mormon':-)

John 15:9,10; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you, abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." Finally, we can look at a mystery contained in the names of the genealogy in Genesis 5. When the names are translated they give a message: Man (is) Appointed Mortal Sorrow; (but) The Blessed God Shall come down Teaching. His death shall bring The Despairing Comfort, Rest. Adam = Man (is); Seth = Appointed, Enosh = Mortal; Kenan = Sorrow (but); Mahalalel = The Blessed God; Jared = Shall come down; Enoch = Teaching; Methuselah = His death shall bring; Lamech = The Despairing; Noah = Comfort, Rest. This message should give us reason to believe we need to know what those teachings are that Jesus gave from the Father.

I'm not used to the features yet...oops!!:-) See next post instead of a double post...

I feel no need to consider myself Mormon, but the term latter day saint has meaning to me, as I'm sure it does to you as well. Having been baptized at 9 by immersion for the same reasons you believe it necessary - just not per LDS belief that it requires priesthood authority - my faith is not a 'dry' one:-) The wife came home with info from the local Ward today about "A Procamation to the World" and "ProtectMarriage.com" . Has anyone here seen the new video being advertised called "Demographic Winter"? I think it will be a great tool to promote the foundational pattern of husband and wife and family as the foundation of society. So we ordered one (actually it was me) and hope to have opportunity to use it in this important 'battle' for secular and Christian society if we are to survive the war against the family that is going on in our State. The issue encompasses all of us on the planet really. The video talks about the population decline taking place world-wide and the far reaching impacts it will have unless it is turned back... Which points to the LDS proclamation to re-affirm the commandment of God. You just can't ignore God's commandments without impunity.

What a bunch of posting rules!:-) I'll do my best. Although not Mormon, I consider myself, in principle, to be LDS in the broadest sense of the word. To date I've received witness of God, as did Joseph, that we are to hear Jesus Christ. I've done extensive study of His teachings and have my own web site about all the teachings of Jesus at One Disciple to Another It isn't anti anyone, but is very pro Jesus and what He taught about who He is, what He said about His teachings, through what He said about unbelievers. Jesus said if we abide in Him by doing what He said that He will abide in us and we will be one as He and the Father are one. Yet we must first know that Jesus said His doctrine was not His own, but the word of His Father in heaven.