rastler000

In my case it is homeschooling AND being taught homosexual marraige is normal. However, in the schools where I am at it doesn't really come up.

I agree. I think your context tended to suggest others were not patriotic just because they didn't agree with a speach right after 9/11 is all. One of those flaws of communicating on disucssion boards I guess. Were good? :)

The fact that you seem so "scared" of OBL from my POV means he has won. He dictates what we do by us being scared of him. All he has to do is "say something" and we jump through hoops.

I am a huge fan for what Bush did in the days after 9/11. I am a huge fan of what originally went down in Afganistan. Heck, I was even cool with taking Saddam out. But after that it has been a mess. Does saying this make me unpatriotic? If so then my dad, 30 years in the military, two tours in Vietnam, to this day helping recruit kids, supporting the troops with money and time, and a lot more than that, is also not a Patriot. Because my views are similar to his.

Pakistan and Saudia Arabia do this to this day. While we have sent some missles into Pakistan of late, I can't help but notice we are not at war with them. But I guess the patriotism thing where.... "you are either for us, or against us", is a lot easier to grasp then the reality of the various geopolitical dynamics as to why we have to wink at what Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (among others) does. Which gets right back to the - in this country - you are either with us, a Patriot, or against us, supporting terrorsim. Which is nothing more than cynical political game playing.

I respect his efforts and anybody who would attempt that impossible and dangerous job. But because I do not agree with what he did means I should be getting out the prayer mats for OBL after he gets the Thanksgiving invite? That was sort of what the quote suggested afterall.

Do you believe everything you hear on the news? Do you believe everything you get in your e-mail? 10,000 is right about at the number of residences in the entire state. Are you saying they are all in default, and in default by illegal aliens? My mom, a couple of brothers, and a slew of friends and peers in just Southern California will be astonished to find out they are not only in default, but also illegal aliens.

And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists." Gosh.... I guess I am a terrorist. How come somebody didn't send me the memo? I would have put OBL on my Thanksgiving invite list. Back on subject..... I agree with tha last posters definition (minus the LDS specific part)! :)

I was kind of leaning towards the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Oh please..... lets not start with the quotes of the founding fathers game. There are enough varying quotes in there to keep the religious folks, the diests, the agnostics, and the athiests happy. Some of the founding fathers have specific quotes that could keep all of us happy dependent on which quote you use. Would you like some of them? I have hundreds. :)

Finally, my family and I are "religous"! Yahoo! Praise the, uh..... Praise the.... hmm..... can someobdy help me out here?

Well okay, it hasn't worked very well for the past 35 years, but good luck with all of that. :)

Do you have source material for all of this?

I realize all of this. It was the claim of the starter of this thread that he wanted to end abortion through educational efforts. To change what is currently happening. I thought that was a great idea. But when it came down to it those educational efforts were mostly "we are right and you are wrong, for which the counter is, "no I am right and you are wrong", which is where the issue has be set for the past 25-30 years, with little to no change. So basically, I don't mind that you are pro-life. I am pro-choice. And the issue remains as it alway has. :)

It's about mostly men controlling women. And yes, I see it as similar. Sorry. :)

Montana and the Dakotas are too brutal in the winter. That will keep the numbers from getting out of control.

Lets add to the list.... What she can wear? Whether she can vote? Who she should marry? When she can out out in public? Whether she is able to talk when men are talking?

I agree.

Viability outside the womb is mine (21-22 weeks). Otherwise I am not female, it's not my body, and I'm not going to tell a woman what to do with her body. This is the position of about half the population in the country, it hasn't changed much in a couple of decades, and I doubt it's going to change much in the future. So the issue almost always come down to this: Those who are pro-life say, "my way or the highway", and those who are pro-choice say, "the highway it is." Even if Roe were to be overturned it would still be legal in enough places that all but the very poor could still get one with a little travel.

Okay, you win. I choose that it is right and will remain solidly pro-choice then. :)

I would suggest that as long as you hold the attitude of "they are the bad guys and we are the good guys", as part of your educational efforts, that it will just stay at the same impasse it is now. I know a lot about the baby making process.... I have even done the teacher thing with very uncomfortable seventh and/or eighth graders watching the films and the process (minus the actual lovemaking of course). Have watched babies being born, but I am still pro-choice. Basically, I am open to ways to limit abortions, however, if somebody just calls me "bad", or makes it a "conservative versus liberal" contest, or a "us versus them" contest, or calls me a "murderer", I don't see any particular reason to continue the conversation, and will just stay with the status quo, even though I don't consider it the ideal situation. Actually I think I will leave this thread because as always, the conversation tends to lead to the contest, which leads to nothing getting accomplished except recriminations. It's been this way for 35 years and I doubt it will change.

No worries. :)

Well if you want to see it that way that's fine. To me it is a legal term, so I don't sweat it. However, I would be less likely to address your concerns about the issue if you were to approach me in this way. And I guess since I have loaned money (paid back) for an abortion, I am a murderer as well. From my POV the way both sides demonizes each other actually leads to more abortions, then less. It is gridlocked so to speak, with neither side willing to listen to each other, and avenues to reduce the number of abortions never being bought to the table. This has the results of everything staying the same..... around a million abortions a year. I am resigned to this basic reality.

Well you can "call" it murder all you want but in this country it's not. And I might suggest to you that calling for the incarceration of millions of women, doctors, and family members of those women (aid and abetting murder), is probably more of a hinderance to ending abortion, or lessening the numbers, than it is a help. Not only won't you change any minds, but you'll probably just have the otherside just become more obstinate and set in their views. Thus - in an odd sort of a way - you probably 'help' those who are pro-choice. Just an observation. :)

With all due respect... you can share your testimony to be sure.... but when making the case against abortion, preaching (or sharing a testimony) to people who do not share your beliefs, and are also pro-choice, may not have the desired effect. It may seem as you are just preaching to them, and suggesting they should do as you suggest because it is "Gods will." I think the education as suggested by Fin would do better on this issue. Just a thought and not really a criticism. :)