Maxel

Hey marshac- Welcome to the site! I wouldn't worry about what you've said, about gender roles. Education is also extremely important, and I know of a few couples in which the wife worked and supported her husband while he was in school. Anyone who gives you problems is most likely... not very nice. Are you a medical student- possibly going to be a surgeon?

Dymmesdale- I applaud you for your honest search to find the answer to our questions. While others may have points of discussion, I just want to point out one detail. Do you now understand how something sacred and inspired (literally 'God-breathed') can contain what seem to be, at first glance, errors? There's a wonderful book called How Wide the Divide?, which is the result of an ongoing discussion between two professors- a Latter-day Saint named Stephen Robinson, and an Evangelical (I forget his denomination) named Craig Blomberg. It is a wonderful read, and one I highly recommend if you wish to begin to understand the underlying differences between Mormonism and traditional Christianity. In the book, Robinson makes the point that there are many learned, Jewish scholars that claim the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament and is, therefore, not scripture. There are many learned, Christian scholars with access to the same texts and evidences that argue the opposite: that the New Testament does not contradict the Old Testament and that both are scripture. The theme is that we overlook apparent discrepancies that our faith requires us to overlook, and we utilize faith in the hope that all will one day be resolved. There are many atheists that reject all scripture as ridiculous- their faith (or lack thereof) requires them to find contradiction and fault in religion, therefore they overlook impressive evidence pointing towards the existence of God. What I'm getting at, is that there may be seemingly valid discrepancies in the Book of Mormon. I can't think of any of significant import, and I do know that science, history, and archaeology has only strengthened its claim to the status of scripture. However, my faith in the Book of Mormon doesn't stem from a lack of contradiction, but from a witness borne to my soul through the power of the Holy Ghost that is is scripture. Additionally, my faith in the Bible does not arise from a supposed inerrancy found therein, but from a witness borne to my soul through the power of the Holy Ghost that the Bible is inspired, or 'God-breathed'. My faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not stem from a cognitive approval of its teachings or practices (though it is strengthened by that), but from a witness borne to my soul through the power of the Holy Ghost that it is God's chosen church on the earth, and that His priesthood and His authority is to be found therein. Most importantly, my firm faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, my Savior and Redeemer, does not stem from historical accounts of His life, or theological constructs that He taught man, or by seeing the miracles that He wrought while on the earth. My faith in Christ comes from a powerful testimony which is fed daily through prayer, study, and reflection. It comes from belief in Him, combining with the works I feel He would have me do to form the living faith of my soul. It comes from the numerous witnesses given me by the great Testator, the Holy Ghost, about the truth of Christ's doctrine. My apologies for the tangent. After looking over your explanations, I find I agree with them all saving the first, where you employ Trinitarian logic to explain how God made heaven and earth, yet Ephesians states it was Christ who made it. A rather simple explanation from an LDS standpoint is that the God of the Old Testament (Jehovah, or Yahweh) was in actuality Jesus Christ. Therefore, rereading we find that Genesis claims Jehovah created the heavens and the earth, and in Ephesians it claims that Christ did so. There's no disparity there, as Jehovah = Christ.

Well, you won't see anyone attacking the Bible from the LDS community! At least, you shouldn't... We all believe in it as well.

Quick question- do you know what direction you want to take? Are you attempting to prove the BoM/Bible false because 'contradictions' exist within; do you want to point out contradictions and merely have them discussed?Of course you're quite welcome to start a new thread, but I suggest stating the reason for doing so beforehand so we know what to expect. I appreciate your acknowledgment of the 'land of Jerusalem' situation, and I look forward to discussing the Bible with you!

Welcome Morris! There's edification to be found here, if you can sift through the chaff. Good luck!

Welcome, eh!

I'm in!

That's the really important part. Obesity due to lack of self-care is extremely unattractive, and frankly I think it should be. Obesity due to other issues is a different matter.And, I've liked some 'big-boned' girls before- it's what's inside that matters.

Note to self: Not every quote by someone named 'Joseph' is from Joseph Smith.I was trying to wrap my head around why Brother Joseph was encouraging communism. I saw Joseph and apparently skipped over the last name. *headdesk*

From what I've understood, fully living the Law of Consecration could not be done unless living in the social conditions of the United Order. The unique thing about the United Order is that is theocratic in nature, and its leaders are humble men inspired by God. It is the ideal church government, and literally that- church government. However, it is unwise and impossible to live in our current situation, as all members must be willing participants and faithful adherents to the LDS faith. I doubt one could get it to work in Utah as things are right now; too much chaff among the wheat. For right now, it's an ideal that we understand we cannot live righteously and therefore do not attempt to live. Like the intertwining of Body and Spirit, the best social circumstances arise from a healthy, God-inspired intertwining of Church and State; but anything less than God-inspired and God-lead quickly becomes corrupt. That's my opinion on the matter, anyway.

Talking to my convert friends about their family situations, their comments have reflected exactly what Soulsearcher said. It is an obstacle that needs to be addressed, but definitely surmountable with patience and charity. The keys, I've been told, is loving acceptance and knowing when to let things go, if contention arises.

Pam gave a good groundwork, but some further things should be said. First, the Community of Christ (which were the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints until a few years ago) has always taken a stance against polygamy; its doctrine was opposed to it in Joseph Smith's day and has been vehemently ever since. It is the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the FLDS) that still practice polygamy. Second, there has been divergence on many core doctrines, such as who can hold the Priesthood, ordinances for the dead and temple work, etc. Women and men can be ordained to the CoC Priesthood, while only worthy males can enter the LDS Priesthood. The CoC only have one temple (in Independence, Missouri and dedicated in 1994) besides the Kirtland, Ohio temple they maintain. Also, the version of the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants the CoC uses are formatted differently than the LDS Church's. Additionally, the CoC's Doctrine and Covenants contains additional revelations given through their prophets since its inception, and do not include the official declarations of the LDS church (Official Declarations 1 & 2, etc.). Both churches maintain an open canon. The Community of Christ's homepage is here, while the Frequently Asked Questions page is here, and the Basic Beliefs page is here. Everything I've just stated has been derived from this most recent visit to the CoC's homepage, as well as different visits spanning the past 2-3 years.

Welcome! I am glad you shared your story.

If you're wondering because the Word of Wisdom denotes that 'hot drinks' are not for the belly-. 'hot drinks' was interpreted to mean coffee and tea long ago; there's nothing wrong with hot chocolate- unless one is worried about burning themselves and/or possible amounts of caffeine found within the coffee. If you're wondering because of caffeine found in chocolate (which I believe is minuscule amounts, but I might be wrong) then it is a personal issue. I have nooo idea what Ginkgo biloba is. Be right back.*Goes to research it.* *Gets back* Okay, after a quick search I'm still as confused as before. I can't find any references to it having any kind of caffeine content; the only downside I see listed is the presence of MPN, which apparently can poison children if consumed in large, prolonged doses. I would assume, however, it's not as harmful in adults; and large quantities of anything can cause poisoning or toxicity of some sort. So, the answer is: I have no idea. I can say with 99% surety that it's not specifically mentioned in the Word of Wisdom (unless one can make tea with Ginkgo biloba, in which case that tea might be forbidden) but I guess it boils down to personal preference.

As long as you don't act on any erotic love desires that might arise, I can't see why not. There's plenty of non-relatives living together in my singles ward- only same-gender situations, though.I can't think why not, although if you feel it's a problem I would ask about it upfront, if you decide to get baptized.

The least circular answer is: We don't know. We cannot comprehend where the 'circle of life' began; we cannot fully comprehend the origins of God. However, we cannot comprehend the origins of time, space, matter, etc. either. We can't let the things we don't know stop us from acting on the things we do know. For example, simply because I cannot comprehend the process that created the law of gravity, that does not mean I can escape it, or even ignore it. My body must act in accordance to the law of gravity if I wish to move around, play sports, or even keep my feet planted on Earth. In the same vein, because we cannot understand God's origins does not excuse us from living His laws. I hope that helps! My best wishes to you, son-of-Mirium.

I'd like to add my testimony that that's true. I'm a very judgmental person by nature; the way I have taught myself humility and my own 'nothingness', as the scriptures call it, is by realizing that the same judgments I could use on others could also be used- fairly- against me. From then it was a fine line I learned to walk between judging principles instead of people, and then finally the ability to judge my own actions in a fair manner.It should be noted that those 'judgments' of which I spoke worked opposite of what one might initially think. I judged others to be perfect, and myself to be utterly worthless. Ironically, it was the realization of my 'nothingness' before God (see Moses 1:10) that began the road to discovering my own self-worth. From there I began to see others as imperfect- yet still children of God worthy of my love and respect- and myself as imperfect- yet still a child of God worthy of self-love and self-respect. Sometimes, I have to create a fictional character in my head and judge him to learn new doctrinal concepts. The good thing about that is I can make him as good or bad as I want, and also be as harsh or light in my judgment as I think proper, and still do no one harm.

Dear FunkyTown- Why oh why are you moving to England? It's not a bad place, but neither is America! -Warmest (if not puzzled) regards, Maxel

Thank you all! I was worried I was going crazy. I'm going to write it down so I don't forget again. Mods, feel free to close the thread. Please, and thank you.

Hey all- I've been wracking my brain, but I CANNOT remember where I read about a certain doctrine. I am certain- 100%, absotively posilutely certain- that I read it in the Doctrine and Covenants, but of course I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time; won't be the last. The doctrine is as follows: When someone offends us without repenting, we forgive them up to three times and pray for mercy for them. On the fourth unrepentant offense, however, we are to forgive them yet pray to God to mete justice upon them. Has anyone else heard of this? Am I crazy in my head? I don't want to debate it; just find the source (if there is any) because I've been thinking about it lately and can't find it for the life of me.

Welcome! I hope you enjoy your time with us.

One thing that helps me: Whenever a conversation is happening (as is often the case with the theological discourses found in the Book of Mormon), I put myself in the recipient's shoes and read the verse, out loud, substituting my name for the stated recipient's. It helps me personalize some of the best advice found in the scriptures. Another method is studying different sources about the material- although it seems this tactic might not work so well for you. Personally, I find the best source (for me) of learning about facts pertinent to scriptural teachings is through the filter of a faithful member. I make good use of my iPod and the iTunes podcasts, and have subscribed to many of the podcasts that are recordings of devotionals and talks given by various GA's, BYU professors, and others. Another is writing down specific concepts that you see talked about and connecting them with other concepts. My institute teacher talks about doctrinal constellations: groups of doctrine that have meaning in themselves, but gain greater meaning when seen in connection to other doctrines (for example the doctrines of the Fall, the Atonement, eternal progression, the importance of family, etc.). Or, you could make doctrinal 'webs' with arrows pointing from one doctrine to another and explaining the relationship. In the same vein, you could write out doctrines talked about in various scriptures and work over in your mind how that doctrine fits into that scripture, its importance when viewed with other doctrines discussed, etc. Good luck!

I think it was Benson who said that. However, that has to be taken in context with Joseph Smith's utterances that 'a prophet is only residing as a prophet when he is acting like one' (also paraphrased).I reconcile those two sayings using the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I believe that when one who has received the Gift (and there's a difference between receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which is done after baptism, and feeling the Power of the Holy Ghost, which can be felt by anyone) of the Holy Ghost will be inspired to understand a prophet's words and learn what God would have him/her learn from that sermon/talk/etc. When it comes to living doctrine, what a Saint is supposed to live like is far above and beyond the bare-bones minimum set forth in the scriptures- yet someone who is not living according to the own light they receive is not being a true Christian, or Mormon for that matter. Does that make sense?

Link # 2 providing evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon: Same site as the first, but a different section and format. In it, Lindsay makes several arguments (in the form of 'frequently asked questions') for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, the Restoration, and LDS doctrine.

Getting married. Definitely getting married. Oh wait, for non-YSA's... Uuummm... Faith?