LittleNipper

I'm sorry but Romans 1:20 say the following: Romans 1:20 (New International Version) 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

I think the premise that GOD is TOTALLY visible is a very limited human assessment of an all powerful, all knowing, eternal GOD, who can exist everywhere an anywhere at once...... If one wishes to read a verse of scripture in context, all one needs to do is read the entire chapter or even the book.

I'm with you. My dad had a term for it, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't." I thought my original answer was very sensitive to his question but what apparently was wanting, was a chance at nailing me to the wall. Even my second answer was not really my judgment call. It was meant to get him to perhaps consider things for himself...

Well a tree will bring forth fruit, and there is a basket of fruit. If one speaks of various fruit, one might be okay in saying fruits. Each attribute of christian growth might be considered a fruit in it's own right. Where one quotes a verse verbatum, it should be as written, but a title is only a title...

Your attitude speaks for itself. It certainly isn't "christian." I see no patience, kindness, meekness or long suffering. You wanted my opinion, now what are you going to do with it?

That is fine ---- not that the GREAT I AM needs elevating. I'm sure HE looks on the heart.

This is a very interesting question... Actually, Mary & Joseph were not Mr. & Mrs. Christ. JESUS, while he was on the earth was actually known as Jesus of Nazareth. CHRIST is a title which actually means "the anointed." This is what "MESSIAH" means. I tend to use either JESUS CHRIST or CHRIST JESUS or even JESUS the CHRIST. The ANOINTED JESUS, JESUS the ANOINTED ---- are the very same thing, don't you think?

The reality is that your salvation is between YOU and GOD. It doesn't matter what I think. I might add that it doesn't matter what your church thinks concerning this either. What does trouble me is the part I have highlighted. Up to that point CHRIST sounds like HE is doing the work; however, what I've highlighted says to me that you seem to be doing the work...

Not in the least. I believe that born-again Christians are found in many "religious" persuasions. I do feel that some mature spiritually at different rates and finally outgrow a particular setting. Some never reach maturity and remain babes in CHRIST JESUS, and some of this maybe the result of false teachings. I do not feel in the least that anyone MUST attend a particualar church in order to receive any special blessings from GOD. This is what a PERSONAL SAVIOR is all about. CHRIST deals with the individual, his particular issues, and his heart...

Well, don't be surprised... You see, I'm not a professional religious forum guy. I work 8 to 5 with a break or two and a lunch in between. I consider myself an average Born-again Bible believing Fundamentalist Christian. I was saved from the age of 12. Those I worship CHRIST JESUS with, at Easton Bible Church in Hainsport, New Jersey; do not consider the church the authority/standard, nor the good pastor for that matter. The BIBLE is our standard. EVERYTHING is measured against the BIBLE and even the BIBLE is understood within its own light and not with "outside" values, nor personal convictions ---- which maybe very difficult for you to comprehend, given your religious background. I find it very difficult to deal with individuals who seem to feel the BIBLE is somehow insufficent, corrupted, hopelessly intangible, etc... I find that sadly funny. But that maybe simply because I've studied the Bible most of my life and have had dealings with atheists, agnostics and not a few "religious" people. I do thank GOD for every opportunity HE has provided for me to share HIS GOSPEL of CHRIST. Salvation is a wonderful gift. I wish for everyone to accept it. When I have an opportunity I sew seeds, but reaping is such a blessing...

I have accepted CHRIST as my PERSONAL SAVIOR (capitals not meant to upset). I'm HIS and HE is mine. Your religion mixes Old Testament legalism with saving grace and claims authority. Sorry, I will not regress into working for savation, nor letting someone else tell me what CHRIST has to tell me.

While I do believe, that my existance is the result of Adam's transgression, I would suggest you take an honest look at a concordance and look up "SIN" and "TRANSGRESSION." The verses might counteract your logic...

I would suggest you at least read I Corinthians 13:8 & I Corinthians 14:37. You may also wish to consider that in Matthew 7:22, it isn't what the rejected say but what they do not say that get them rejected. I would suggest that to most true Christians, what is missing is rather obvious and what those being rejected say speaks volumns to their attitude concerning (hint, hint) what THEY have done. That I feel strongly is what JESUS was/is driving at in this verse. What JESUS says previously should get one ready for the obvious... Unless their concerns are with WORKS ---- (hint, hint).

The darkness I see is when I concern myself with what heaven will be like for me and what I'll get out of going there, and how I might profit from teaching about such things. I find when I focus entirely on the LORD JESUS CHRIST, through HIS inspired WORD, I'm in a much better lighted place and CHRIST takes care of "me" so much better.

"Respectful" does not mean to agree with. I have for the most part limited myself to the Christian Beliefs Board, so as to not to be disruptive to a religious group I understand only second handedly. I feel strongly, as you likely feel concerning your own regard, that I'm a Christian. Therefore, I feel that I can present to you my understanding of Biblical terms, interpretations, doctrines, and perhaps even my testimony without attempting to be hostile, but at the same time not in anyway attempting to shield Mormons from a reality that perhaps they likely feel genuinely uncomfortable with. If that is the case, I'm very sorry, but I must answer to a higher authority. CHRIST says through HIS WORD, that people are going to hate me simply because of my belief in CHRIST JESUS. I do accept that cross. I do not hit people over the head with it; however, I will not back away from what I see as Righteous Biblical truths.

Well, in the case of Stephen, we are presented with a vision he speaks out at his stoning as seeing. Both Paul & John have visions also. But I would only question if indeed they saw GOD's T-O-T-A-L glory, or one veiled or a dream. So I do not see a demise but an honest appraisial. Interestingly, NONE claimed to see the FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT united together. None of the Bible characters claim to have seen the FATHER. Only Stephen claims that he was seeing JESUS standing to the right of GOD's glory and he was being stoned at the time.

Has anyone ever seen GOD in HIS entirety, could be just as easily asked. The Bible says no. The Bible tells us that no one has ever seen GOD (John 1:18) except the LORD JESUS CHRIST. In Exodus 33:20, GOD declares, "You cannot see MY face, for no one may see ME and live." These Scriptures seem to contradict other Scriptures which describe various people "seeing" GOD. For example, Exodus 33:19-23 describes Moses speaking to GOD, "face to face.” How could Moses speak with GOD "face to face" if no one can see GOD's face and live? In this instance, the phrase "face to face" is a figure of speech indicating they were in very close communion. GOD and Moses were speaking to each other "as if" they were two human beings having a close conversation. In Genesis 32:30, Jacob saw GOD appearing as an angel – he did not truly see GOD. Samson’s parents were terrified when they realized they had seen GOD (Judges 13:22), but they had only seen HIM appearing as an angel. JESUS was GOD in the flesh (John 1:1,14) so when people saw HIM, they were seeing GOD. So, yes, GOD can be "seen" and many people have "seen" GOD. At the same time, no one has ever seen GOD revealed in all HIS glory. In our fallen human condition, if GOD were to fully reveal HIMSELF to us, we would be consumed. Therefore, GOD veils HIMSELF and appears in forms in which we can "see" HIM. However, this is different than seeing GOD with all HIS glory and holiness displayed. People have seen visions of GOD, images of GOD, and appearances of GOD – but no one has ever seen GOD in all HIS fullness (Exodus 33:20). The TRINITY would be the absolute fullness of GOD, and so no, no human has seen the TRINITY.

If as you say you are set in your beliefs, then you can fear nothing from me. If you have doubts, then that is maybe why you demonstrate such a berating and hostile tone. I'm not here to insult anyone, I simply disagree and that should not trouble you ----------- if you are sure of your faith.

Those that participate on this thread are the ones asking the questions. Does your question above have anything to do with the TRINITY? No, it does not. Ask me a TRINITY question and I will provide a TRINITY answer, otherwise, who is hyjacking whom and how?

There is really no way around it unless you wish to contradict the verses you selected. The implications are explicit...

Conversations are two-way. You may wish to consider that point as you review the posts above.

So you do believe we are born sinful and that this (sin) is not a choice?

Even a foolish man is counted wise if he remains silent...

If a man's wisdom doesn't count for eternity, then what value is it on a scale from 1 to 10 (where 10 counts for everything and 1 counts for nothing)?

If it's not Biblical then most certainly!