LittleNipper

What I'm trying to say, as simply as possible is that CHRIST always seemed to indicate that man's wisdom is worthless. The GOSPEL message and all that matters is very simply. (I Corinthians 3:18-20)

A college degree will not show a person how to reach heaven. Were two or more are gathered in MY name, there I AM in the middle. CHRIST builds HIS CHURCH ---------- it only takes two plus CHRIST.

Explain Isaiah 64:6

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Does GOD say one needs to select a church?

How does someone know if the answer being provided is correct? One must have a standard and domonstrate consistency. Christians are supposed to demonstrate long suffering as a virture. Complaining is not shown on that list.... That's how I learn. What you see as an attack, I see as questioning and demonstrating what I see as inconsistancies. I'm not here to hurt you, just food for thought...

One might suggest that one doesn't need Calculus to make change, lay carpet, or paint a house. It depends on the task. The GOSPEL message is simple ----- "religionists" wish to make the simple difficult, and that is how they control the masses...

Well, see here you go attacking "Christians" again. 10,000 different Christian denominations----indeed. Very often the only differences between various Christian denominations is simply the country of origin and some evangelist involved in bringing the GOSPEL to that group. Sometimes one group splits over the color the inside of a church auditorium is painted, and of course, I'd be the first one to admit that everyone who says "LORD, haven't we done this and LORD, haven't we done that..." is a true "christian" at all. What they have is a social club and a desire to feel good about themselves; however, that is a different issue. I really try not to simply present other verses to counter those provided to me, but to shed understanding on said verses in question, so that they might be understood in their true light within the context of where they are in the Bible. Context and audience of intent means a lot.

I sorry if you have been offended, but the reality seems to be that the opposite is true. Some seem intent to prove my faith in the Bible to be in error and attack rather then try to understand Trinitarians. I never bash the "Bible." I have said little to nothing concerning the book of Mormon. Perhaps it is time to consider where your uneasiness is originating, instead of maybe laying the blame at my feet.

Well, I would say my Bible is a living text. However, even an elementary book must provide a solid foundation and not mere contradictions.

I've provided Biblical support. Where is your Biblical support that what I believe is in error? Not to be disagreeable, but your understanding seems to depend on verses outside of the Bible. I would submit that my belief depends only on Biblical verses.

HE signaled that it was finished. HE wasn't saving souls in hell. HE was releasing the saints in Paradise.

What I'm saying is that there is no room for evangelization in hell ---- only proclamations.

The word “preached” in 1 Peter 3 is the Greek word kerusso which means to proclaim or herald. So JESUS was not preaching or evangelizing, HE was making a proclamation or an announcement. The announcement was probably similar to Hebrews 10:11-14

Actually, I thought Aaron his brother was placed in charge of the tabernacle.

It is ALL a part of the point. JESUS died and went to hell for the sins of the world. Part of that involved releasing the departed saints and being seen of those destined to remain in hell.

And it is rather obvious from the implications that the brothers, as with the once rich man, never profited from either... Is justice a form of gloating? I don't believe it to be. It exhonerates the righteous in CHRIST.

Well, this is true; however, Moses also preached to Pharaoh, but for whose benefit? Pharoah didn't listen, but GOD was presenting the Hebrews with an object lesson... Jesus went to Abraham's Bosm to release the Old Testament saints awaiting GOD's expected salvation ---- the spirits of which walked about Jerusalem after JESUS died on the cross. Those who died without the hope of salvation were exposed to this event on the other side of that great chasm. But just like no one was sent to warn the once rich man's five brothers they (those dead in sin) received no comfort only righteous justice.

You must have missed raneunpton remarks ----- Amos 3:7 You really didn't provide a reason why a prophet needs to control the church presently and yet prophets didn't control the temple prior to JESUS...

1. O soul, are you weary and troubled? No light in the darkness you see? There’s light for a look at the Savior, And life more abundant and free! * Refrain: Turn your eyes upon Jesus, Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim, In the light of His glory and grace. 2. Through death into life everlasting He passed, and we follow Him there; O’er us sin no more hath dominion— For more than conquerors we are! 3. His Word shall not fail you—He promised; Believe Him, and all will be well: Then go to a world that is dying, His perfect salvation to tell! Helen H. Lemmel 1922

1. O soul, are you weary and troubled? No light in the darkness you see? There’s light for a look at the Savior, And life more abundant and free! * Refrain: Turn your eyes upon Jesus, Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim, In the light of His glory and grace. 2. Through death into life everlasting He passed, and we follow Him there; O’er us sin no more hath dominion— For more than conquerors we are! 3. His Word shall not fail you—He promised; Believe Him, and all will be well: Then go to a world that is dying, His perfect salvation to tell! Helen H. Lemmel 1922

I hold this to be true. I simply do not see historically, any prophet being placed to rule over a church. None of the Old Testament prophets ruled over the temple. They were set apart and not incumbered by ministry. I also realize that in Revelation 10 there is mention of two witnesses who will prophesy for 1,260 days before they are killed ---- 3 1/2 days later they will rise from the dead. New American Standard Bible (©1995) Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) Certainly, the Almighty LORD doesn't do anything unless he [first] reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. King James Bible Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. American King James Version Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. American Standard Version Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets. Bible in Basic English Certainly the Lord will do nothing without making clear his secret to his servants, the prophets. Douay-Rheims Bible For the Lord God doth nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets. Darby Bible Translation But the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. English Revised Version Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Webster's Bible Translation Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret to his servants the prophets. World English Bible Surely the Lord Yahweh will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. Young's Literal Translation For the Lord Jehovah doth nothing, Except He hath revealed His counsel unto His servants the prophets.

I believe the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and that it will be rebuilt by the Jews and desecrated by the image of the Anti-Christ being placed in the holy place. I wouls suggest that I as a Christian understand what needs to be known of CHRIST to be saved and adopted as one of HIS special children. The enrichments I seek are treasures in heaven and not of this world where moth and rust corrupt.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. King James Bible For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: American King James Version For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: American Standard Version For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: Douay-Rheims Bible For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable. Darby Bible Translation for from the world's creation the invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity, so as to render them inexcusable. English Revised Version For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: Webster's Bible Translation For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: World English Bible For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse. Young's Literal Translation for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable; ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασιν νοούμενα καθορᾶται, ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης, εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους· ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασι νοούμενα καθορᾶται, ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης, εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους, ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents) τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασιν νοούμενα καθορᾶται ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with Diacritics τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασιν νοούμενα καθορᾶται, ἥ τε αἴδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης, εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους, ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550) τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1894) τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:20 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους Romans 1:20 Hebrew Bible כי מהותו הנעלמה היא כחו הנצחי ואלהותו מעת נברא העולם תודע במעשים ותראה לבלתי היות להם להתנצל׃ Apocalypsis 22:21 Latin: Biblia Sacra Vulgata invisibilia enim ipsius a creatura mundi per ea quae facta sunt intellecta conspiciuntur sempiterna quoque eius virtus et divinitas ut sint inexcusabiles Romanos 1:20 Spanish: La Biblia de las Américas (©1997) Porque desde la creación del mundo, sus atributos invisibles, su eterno poder y divinidad, se han visto con toda claridad, siendo entendidos por medio de lo creado, de manera que no tienen excusa. Romanos 1:20 Spanish: La Nueva Biblia de los Hispanos (©2005) Porque desde la creación del mundo, Sus atributos invisibles, Su eterno poder y divinidad, se han visto con toda claridad, siendo entendidos por medio de lo creado, de manera que ellos no tienen excusa. Romanos 1:20 Spanish: Reina Valera (1909) Porque las cosas invisibles de él, su eterna potencia y divinidad, se echan de ver desde la creación del mundo, siendo entendidas por las cosas que son hechas; de modo que son inexcusables: Romanos 1:20 Spanish: Sagradas Escrituras (1569) Porque las cosas invisibles de él; su eterna potencia y divinidad, se ven entendidas por la creación del mundo, y por las cosas que son hechas, para que no haya excusa; Romanos 1:20 Spanish: Modern Porque lo invisible de él--su eterno poder y deidad-- se deja ver desde la creación del mundo, siendo entendido en las cosas creadas; de modo que no tienen excusa. Romains 1:20 French: Louis Segond (1910) En effet, les perfections invisibles de Dieu, sa puissance éternelle et sa divinité, se voient comme à l'oeil, depuis la création du monde, quand on les considère dans ses ouvrages. Ils sont donc inexcusables, Romains 1:20 French: Darby car, depuis la fondation du monde, ce qui ne se peut voir de lui, savoir et sa puissance éternelle et sa divinité, se discerne par le moyen de l'intelligence, par les choses qui sont faites, de manière à les rendre inexcusables: Romains 1:20 French: Martin (1744) Car les choses invisibles de Dieu, savoir tant sa puissance éternelle que sa Divinité, se voient comme à l'œil par la création du monde, étant considérées dans ses ouvrages, de sorte qu'ils sont inexcusables. Romains 1:20 French: Ostervald (1744) En effet, les perfections invisibles de Dieu, sa puissance éternelle et sa divinité, se voient comme à l'œil, depuis la création du monde, quand on les considère dans ses ouvrages. De sorte qu'ils sont inexcusables, Roemer 1:20 German: Luther (1912) damit daß Gottes unsichtbares Wesen, das ist seine ewige Kraft und Gottheit, wird ersehen, so man des wahrnimmt, an den Werken, nämlich an der Schöpfung der Welt; also daß sie keine Entschuldigung haben, Roemer 1:20 German: Luther (1545) damit, daß Gottes unsichtbares Wesen, das ist, seine ewige Kraft und Gottheit, wird ersehen, so man des wahrnimmt an den Werken, nämlich an der Schöpfung der Welt, also daß sie keine Entschuldigung haben, Roemer 1:20 German: Elberfelder (1871) denn das Unsichtbare von ihm, sowohl seine ewige Kraft als auch seine Göttlichkeit, die von Erschaffung der Welt an in dem Gemachten wahrgenommen (O. erkannt, mit dem Verstande ergriffen) werden, wird geschaut-damit sie ohne Entschuldigung seien;

But the LORD JESUS CHRIST gave HIMSELF up to die. HE told Peter how Peter would die. Doesn't seem that CHRIST was frustrated at all...