LittleNipper

I'm sorry, I thought I was being clear that there are other very different possible understandings of said Bible references.

And GOD you believe waited almost 1500 years? That in itself seem most odd, do you not imagine?

Noah also preached to those who eventually drowned, why? Someday I may ask, but I will not presume. I do know that GOD always provides a witness, no matter if people listen or not. They are without excuse or they are reminded of their own past excuses. Devils believe in GOD and yet they fell from the glory of GOD.

Well we have perhaps some confusion in the understanding. You might remember that in Luke 16:19-31 JESUS spoke of the rich man with 5 brothers and poor Lazarus. If you remember Lazarus died and went to Abraham's bosom and the rich man died and wanted Lazarus to give him some water. Abraham told the once rich man that there was a fixed chasm or great gulf between them. Now also remember that JESUS told one of the men hanging on a cross with HIM that "Today you will be with ME in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). As a believer I believe these are both one and the same place. CHRIST want down to hell (Abraham's bosom side) to release all those waiting who had died prior to HIS being raised, to speak to them and to release them to heaven. This would have included ALL Old Testament saints like Moses, Abraham, Ruth, Esther, etc., etc., etc., (and Lazarus too). Those like the once rich man would have witnessed CHRIST's coming into release those out of Abraham's bosom/paradise... BUT would have been left behind because of their separation in hell. Hell then increased as paradise was emptied. There is always a witness, but for some it is too late...

And yet, you do not see yours as simply another one? I do not worship a denomination. My salvation is not in the hands of any group. What is in a name?

I take a literal understanding of scripture where it is historic. Everyone relies on third party information. Your Joseph Smith has been dead how many years? I do believe I have a leading of the HOLY SPIRIT to spread the GOSPEL message. Reformations are not to be preached or worshiped, they are to be understood.

The FATHER is not the SON. The SON is not the HOLY SPIRIT. The HOLY SPIRIT is not the FATHER. However, together THEY are LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. The HOLY SPIRIT could not come to JESUS's disciples until JESUS went to heaven. JESUS did not know the day or hour HE was to return except the FATHER. Individual beings ---- together GOD in TOTAL.

International Standard Version (©2008) I tell you that you are Peter, and it is on this rock that I will build my congregation, and the powers of hell will not conquer it. New American Standard Bible (©1995) "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) You are Peter, and I can guarantee that on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will not overpower it. King James Bible And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. American King James Version And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. American Standard Version And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Bible in Basic English And I say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock will my church be based, and the doors of hell will not overcome it. Douay-Rheims Bible And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Darby Bible Translation And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it. English Revised Version And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Webster's Bible Translation And I say also to thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church: and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Weymouth New Testament And I declare to you that you are Peter, and that upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the might of Hades shall not triumph over it. World English Bible I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Young's Literal Translation 'And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

I believe that when a person is saved, CHRIST through the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT begins a work in that individual that covers past, present and future sins (committed in this life) under the blood of CHRIST JESUS. The person who refuses CHRIST's payment, remains a fallen person and his sins are carried by him. The saved individual is spiritually reunited with GOD through CHRIST and will one day receive a new glorified body and a loss of memory of that which was. The unsaved carry the stains of their sins to the grave and are forever guilty of their impurity and likely are forever haunted with each and every mistake they ever committed (the worm dieth not).

How does that fit what it says here? Satan’s Doom 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. The Dead Are Judged 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. The New Jerusalem 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” 5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” 9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadiaa in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 He measured its wall and it was 144 cubitsb thick,c by man’s measurement, which the angel was using. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.d 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. 22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Fruit of the SPIRIT - Visible Growth in JESUS CHRIST "Fruit of the SPIRIT" is a biblical term that sums up the nine visible attributes of a true Christian life. Using the King James Version of Galatians 5:22-23, these attributes are: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. We learn from scripture that these are not individual "fruits" from which we pick and choose. Rather, the fruit of the SPIRIT is one ninefold "fruit" that characterizes all who truly walk in the HOLY SPIRIT. Collectively, these are the fruits that all Christians should be producing in their new lives with JESUS CHRIST. Fruit of the SPIRIT - The Nine Biblical Attributes The fruit of the SPIRIT is a physical manifestation of a Christian's transformed life. In order to mature as believers, we should study and understand the attributes of the ninefold fruit: Love - "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in GOD, and GOD in him" (1 John 4:16). Through JESUS CHRIST, our greatest goal is to do all things in love. "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails" (1 Corinthians 13:4-8). Joy - "The joy of the LORD is your strength" (Nehemiah 8:10). "Let us fix our eyes on JESUS, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of GOD" (Hebrews 12:2). Peace - "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with GOD through our Lord JESUS CHRIST" (Romans 5:1). "May the GOD of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in HIM, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT" (Romans 15:13). Longsuffering (patience) -- We are "strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness" (Colossians 1:11). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2). Gentleness (kindness) -- We should live "in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the HOLY SPIRIT and in sincere love; in truthful speech and in the power of GOD; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left" (2 Corinthians 6:6-7). Goodness - "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our GOD would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power" (2 Thessalonians 1:11). "For the fruit of the SPIRIT is in all goodness and righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9). Faith (faithfulness) - "O LORD, thou art my GOD; I will exalt THEE, I will praise THY name; for THOU hast done wonderful things; THY counsels of old are faithfulness and truth" (Isaiah 25:1). "I pray that out of HIS glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through HIS SPIRIT in your inner being, so that CHRIST may dwell in your hearts through faith" (Ephesians 3:16-17). Meekness - "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love" (Ephesians 4:2). Temperance (self-control) - "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love" (2 Peter 1:5-7). Fruit of the SPIRIT - A Devotional for All Christians The fruit of the SPIRIT is a wonderful study for Christians at any level of spiritual maturity. My question is if the above is still true or was this added by those wishing to fool believers? And if it is true, why do so many seem to be harsh in their dealings with others professing to be believers?

Are we both not going down the same road? Perhaps in opposite directions. :) The benefit is Bible study, which is ALWAYS a plus and never a minus. Perhaps you need a more positive outlook and not strive so hard in the defence of prophets who GOD defends and never asked anyone to defend....

You need to prove this biblically. saying this counts for very little.

I as a Christian believe that all who are saved will be judged; however, that judgment will be for rewards in heaven and has nothing to do with losing one's salvation. We are to earn crowns to cast as the feet of CHRIST.

Man is not GOD. GOD created while man actually constructs, builds, assembles from what GOD provides.. When it come to the Bible, man only wrote what GOD wanted and not what they wanted... The theme of the Bible is; however, CHRIST; what HE created, HIS human linage, HIS purpose, HIS desires, HIS love. Is is not about man apart from man's relationship with GOD's desires.

I pray for guidance and understanding. I compare and research Bible references and various English translations for a considered understanding. Bible study is very important. Bible reading is okay...

I find that biblically, there seems to be special care provided to the little ones (see Matthew 18:10). However, once a person becomes responsible, then without CHRIST, I'd have to say that person is lost. CHRIST comes and knocks, but HE does not beat the door down. Anyone who is searching will find. Those not looking are judged already... It seems to me that "Father of all," in this case simply means the the point of origin." CREATOR

I do not know Greek or Hebrew; however, my pastor knows both and my wife knows some Greek. I will read several English translations where I have a question on a verse's meaning. But most importantly, I do ask for GOD to help my understanding and show me the way (enlightenment), as I study HIS WORD...

I certainly believe I am an adopted son of GOD as is spoken of in Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:23 & 9:4. I'm not a child of the devil as spoken in the Holy Writ John 6:70 & Acts 10:38. And since I'm adopted and GOD love me just as much as HE would HIS own SON, I GOD's child... Or at least that is what I see. But you must understand that I respect to whom the scripture is being addressed. GOD certainly never said all humanity is HIS children. And certainly JESUS is GOD's only begotten SON --- as far the Bible reads... It is always a matter of context.

I would turn to a brother in CHRIST who might understand the original Hebrew/Greek for clarity. Clearly you turn to to those that place their faith in Mr. Smith's teachings.

What I saying is that GOD was specifically speaking to select people. That doesn't mean that others like us have nothing to learn or that GOD may not speak to individuals through HIS WORD. BUT, that would certainly mean that GOD was/is not speaking to everyone inclusively. We are not all GOD's childern. Only those that are following HIM are HIS sheep. That is my take.

One might just wish to consider the strong possibility that each of these verses were written for a specific audience. For example, the Psalms were written with a chosen people in mind. The Our Father was given to CHRIST's disciples. Ephesians 4:6 was a letter directed to a group of churched christians and so on. These verses were seemingly never meant to be all inclusive. At least that is my take on them.

But surely you must see an issue. If I understand correctly, Mormons do not believe GOD created all matter. I get the impression that they believe that GOD used existing matter. Now, I assume that this determination came from Joseph Smith. If that is the case, might you not see that if he is in error and is contrary to what the Bible implies, then Mr. Smith is very likely mistaken in other areas. And if he is mistaken, of what inerrant values might he be trusted to provide? You do not see this at least as a small concern?

I found the information at a Lutherian site. I found it helpful and nearly in full agreement with what I hold to be my Christian stand.

Well, to help you a litte; Southern Baptists, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherians, Bretheran, Mennonites, Episcopalians, Pentecostals, Moravians, and Independent Fundamentalists ----------------- HISTORICALLY accept the TRINITY and Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT. That is not to say that "modernism" within some of these groups may not have watered down their GOSPEL message a bit.