carlimac
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Posts posted by carlimac
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It use to really bug me until I became a primary teacher and spent some times with the children of our ward. I now respect the children as much or more than most adults.
The Traveler
I'm a primary teacher, too. And what I hear in our class together is so spontaneous and genuine- not the canned stuff they say in testimony meeting. I've learned much from my bright, inquisitive 6-7 yr olds. As I've taught them, they've taught me! That's why it's so frustrating to hear them talking like little robots in testimony meeting. What they say in front of all the adults isn't what they really think. They are much smarter and more insightful than that. I guess I just don't like the conditioning and the conforming effect that bearing testimonies can have on them. I'd rather hear their many questions and hear their explanations of how they think Heavenly Father and the gospel work in their lives. Our primary class is so enlightening and a truely spiritual experience for me every week, (as opposed to testimony meetings.)
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My husband is the bishop and he won't touch this with a ten foot pole. He's just too nice. And our ward is so full of little performers (children of our friends- several are the children of one of his counselors), he can't imagine offending them by telling them to not let their children stand up to talk.
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I hate to admit this. I feel bad for feeling this way, but I get so annoyed by the same little kids getting up every fast sunday to say the exact same thing they say every month. "I'm ____________ for those who don't know me. I love my family and I know the church is true." There was a parade of at least 7-8 kids today who all got up and said the exact same thing, one after another. There were investigators in the audience and I felt almost embarrassed. If any enemies of the Church want to use the argument that we are brainwashed as children, there is exhibit A. There was also the woman (bless her heart, she's a sweetie, but...) who got up with her two year old in her arms and let him babble on into the microphone as if he were bearing his testimony. She said herself that he didn't understand what he was saying or what a testimony even is. But she let it go on for quite awhile. It was distracting and a bit of a spirit killer. It was hard to get back into the feel of the meeting after that.
I know there are children who actually DO have a testimony and even though they don't have the words to express it other than the rote "I know the church is true" they truely love the gospel and have sincere feelings. I wouldn't want to deny them the opportunity to share that. But it's painfully obvious when the same kids (usually the ones who love the limelight under any circumstance) get up every month. Just like clockwork. Their parents sit there beaming or giggling at them.
I know this is a judgemental, critical attitude, but I'm just wondering if I'm alone in this. Does it bug anyone else?? I surely wish parents would teach children the sacred nature of testimonies and they are only to be shared sincerely and when moved by the spirit- not just when all their friends are going up to the pulpit. It's not a time to show off.
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Both my husband and I talked to our stake president individually and explained the situation about this job possibility. He was totally unfazed and said it is aboslutely alright to consider it and that the brethren (general authorities) have advised that we shouldn't ever be held hostage by our church callings if opportunities to move, expand our career experiences or famly needs come our way. We both felt such a warmth and relief. I knew I was right about that but it was nice to have that notion confirmed. Unless we are called on a full time mission, we are free to move around as we see fit. And even in some circumstances, it's appropriate to interrupt missionary work.
Just thought I'd pass that along.
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My husband likes when I wear the DriSilques because they're silky and see through!
TMI!! (But my husband always thought the nursing garments with "windflaps" were cute)
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Wow! My first grandchild is due in exactly 10 weeks. I'm anxious to meet him but I would prefer he "cook" a little longer. Hoping your niece continues growing well.
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"This glorious truth of celestial parentage, including specifically both a father and a mother, is heralded forth by song in one of the greatest of Latter-day saint hymns, O My Father by Eliza R. Snow, written in 1843, during the lifetime of the prophet, includes this teaching:
In the heavens are parents single?
No; the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason, truth eternal,
Tells me I've a Mother there.
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This is a wonderful expression. How I would love to know and be able to communicate with mother in heaven. But I read a book one time that said Eliza Snow wasn't talking about a divine mother when she wrote those words, but about her own mother who had passed away. Can't remember who it was written by but it was one of her close family members or friends.
I haven't read through all the posts so don't know if this was addressed already.
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TO mztrniceguy
Soooo, (cough, cough...um) I take it from the cover of one of the books that she (and you?) aren't exactly mainstream.
That book would never make it into Deseret Book. I'm curious about this series and how it came about. Maybe you should start a new thread to tell us about it, or maybe you already have sometime in the past? I've been on this forum about two days now. -
none of our rooms have windows on doors and the outside windows are opaque?
and since when is a single sister alone with a child not capable of abusing a child?
The fact is *if* this was prompted by an incident or even a spiritual prompting, stopping sleepovers for a couple hundred families will not stop abuse and does not address the issue. Use a fifth sunday to approach it from an educational POV instead of cutting out a perfectly normal and safe 99.9% of the time activity out of paranoia. Our bishopric did something similar not long ago in regards to teens and sex on a fifth sunday and it was nice.
You seem to be rather paranoid (at the very least "enraged") of paranoia. Why does it bother you so much if people want to take precautions to protect their children? It's simply common sense. I suppose you've never been a victim of something like this. Perhaps you would change your song and dance if you had been. Just wondering why the ruffled feathers?
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I think the point is that they don't know WHAT the specific reasoning was behind it. It doesn't mean that there is someone in their ward molesting children or even with a history of it. That type of thing would definitely be documented.
It's not our place to speculate what is going on. If it came from the bishop, he chose how to handle whatever situation it was, and now the members of his ward get to choose what they are going to do with the counsel given.
It was the "convicted/accused" words that puzzled me. Obviously that kind of thing should be made public- not necessarily over the pulpit in sacrament meeting- perhaps an email of some kind. No parent is going to allow their kid to be in that kind of situation anyway. (Would they? yikes)
ON a lesser note, we have been told not to let our young children go out to the bathrooms by themselves during church. There HAVE been strangers (unidentified men not dressed for church) lurking in womens' bathrooms in our stake on Sundays. Police called, guy took off in a hurry. Our buildings are public and open to anyone who wants to wander in. It's wise to take caution.
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well with that reasoning, I shouldn't be alone with my bishop during a meeting, because Just In Case.
The fact is, this has NOTHING to do with the church and it's liability and everything to do with increased headlines AND education to children so that they DO report it getting people to act paranoid and irresponsibly. this is a society-wide problem of being too paranoid about this stuff and it's obvious that this leadership in this ward has fallen prey to the same hype.
I don't think a bishop can be too careful. My husband will never interview a woman in his office without other people nearby in the building. And one time he asked me to accompany him to deliver some papers (BYU application stuff) to a teenage girl he knew was home alone. He didn't want the non-member neighbors getting any funny ideas. Bishops do need to be very careful. And I would think there should be a little caution on the part of any woman meeting with any man in a room with closed doors. Even with bishops and stake presidents. Take your husband or a good friend along to wait outside. That's not paranoia- just smartness.
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Consider that if there is a convicted/accused/significantly likely potential sex offender in your ward, the bishop is likely to know about it; but for both ecclesiastical and legal reasons he can't identify that person publicly. What are his other options? Openly announcing "yes, there's someone here who may do bad things to your kids" will only spur a ward witch-hunt.
I'd just take it on faith here that my bishop knows something I don't, and only allow my kids to stay with someone I know really, really well.
Aren't these folks identified in the news or on the state govt. websites? THat seems a funny response by a bishop if there is someone that dangerous. And those kinds' of people aren't generally allowed to be around kids anyway.
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that is also a good point.
Hmm if church activites become sleepovers I definitely think that is a no no.
They used to be all the time for the young women. My daughters went to one just over a year ago but I don't think the bishop was even aware of it. I would have chosen differently about letting them go if I had to do it over again. Nothing bad happened but I just felt icky about it later. It was an unnecessary activity and I don't think it served any purpose at all.
I think all those problems with child molestation, exposure to porn, possible false accusations are realistic problems. But the biggest problem I see with sleepovers are that children lose sleep and are GRUMPY the next day. I remember feeling that way after sleepovers as a kid. I was always glad to just sleep in my own bed the next night.
We don't nix sleepovers altogether but we do limit them to special occasions only (birthday parties) and we'll often suggest the kids have a late night with games/ movies/ whatever and then the kids go home, or we retrieve our kid from the party by around 11 PM.
Works for us.
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:):):):)
My understanding is to be prepared for 5 years as needed.
In the book my wife is currently writing, (3rd in a series of 6) the main character is a bishop (widowed) who is in his 6 years into his 2nd term, after having a year off from his first term of 7 years.
Oooh! What book series is this? We have a famous author in our midst? :)
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We sure don't follow the 5 year rule around here. In my mind, callings in church don't hold any sway over if we move or not. Life progresses and moves on, as do Bishops. If you guys leave, they'll find a new Bishop whom the Lord will qualify. We've had wonderful Bishops move for jobs, we've had Bishops get called to the Stake Presidency and all sorts of things. We've had Bishops last over 10 years.
Thanks Alana. I think the Lord is much more flexible and loving and understanding than we give Him credit for sometimes.
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LOl! I didn't mean to start a brawl here. Yes we have prayed- lots! And we don't have an answer yet. So we DO need to make this decision and then ask our Father in Heaven again. But we don't have all the information we need yet to make the wisest choice. There are other factors involved - long convoluted stories that don't have anything to do with the original question but that could influence the end result.
I think I probably gave too much information. (And not enough at the same time. No one reading this could possibly get the whole gist of the situation. ) All I was really wondering was if there is any church policy about how long a bishop normally serves and if it's really uncommon for a bishop to move away before he is released.
Sorry to be a bother with what has appeared to some of you to be a bash my husband pity party. That was not my intention at all. I love him dearly. I support him completely. I trust the Lord to help us work this out according to His will. We are a family blessed beyond measure.
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Neither of us have family right in the town we'd be moving to, but 6 of our 8 siblings, most of their children and grandchildren (those that have them already) as well as his mother all live in the same town a few hours drive away. His father and both my parents have passed away.
Last night we did a family conference call with his family. They were all discussing a cabin on the lake and boating trip they will be going on together out where they live. It will be without us since it's right during our two teen daughters' YW camp. All we could do was sit there quietly and listen. Ouch! This Sunday is the annual Valentine cookie decorating party at his mother's place with all the grandchildren. Ouch again. Tomorrow is my sister's 60th birthday celebration. Ouch again.
If we were 3 hours away, we obviously woudn't be making the drive for every little party but we'd certainly average better than our current one or two every few years.
I have also had to miss the funerals of several dear aunts and uncles, weddings of nieces and nephews, quarterly dinners with a group of fourteen childhood friends who are still close (I'm sort of an emeritus member), and weddings of their children. Also many many other reunion type events.
It stinks to be left out in the cold (literally and figuratively). Yes -That comment is totally about me!! Some of my kids don't know what they are missing because we don't tell them. And my husband doesn't seem to mind all that much. He's a guy.
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"My bishop just finished the second year of his tenure, for most of which I've been his clerk."
Yes, I thought you were a man. (Women aren't called to be ward clerks.) A woman's perspective is likely to be different. We tend to need and place a higher priority on certain kinds of supportive relationships. You are right on some points in your post but dead wrong on others. I guess it just goes to show that you really can't judge another person, especially on an internet forum unless you ARE them, or at least walk in their shoes. There is MUCH more info I haven't divulged about this whole scenario.
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"But they (the entire family) have to give themselves wholly to the calling. I'm not convinced you have from the things you've said. Just something to mull over. "
How so?
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"Being a bishop is not being complacent. The blessings being a Bishop will have in your lives can be countless. So, just so it doesn't make your desires too one sided, just make sure you consider that in the balance. "
I have considered it. We have lived it for a year. I honestly think I saw more spiritual growth in him before he was called as bishop. That may have been the preparatory humbling that went on. But for the last year it has been one administrative, worthiness or welfare nightmare after another. I have encouraged him and prayed with him and for him, not complained one iota about the extra time he spends in church service. I pick up the slack at home, counsel with him when he want's to talk, give him back rubs when he's stressed. I don't know what else to do. I feel like I'm being the best bishop's wife I can be. All I can see is that he has been more stressed for the last year. I don't see or feel the spiritual growth in him I thought I would. I wasn't expecting miracles but even an incremental year's worth of growth doesn't seem to be there.
I actually begged him NOT to pursue this job if it wasn't what he wanted to do. I didn't want to get my hopes up. HE was the one who felt he needed to fly out there to check it out. Now they are expressing interest in him, have invited me out to see the area, have offered free lodging and meals while I'm there. The package they are offering is the best we've seen in 6 years. He could have cut off the process at any point but now he's hedging. I wonder if he's just scared of the unknown.
"By which we generally mean wife and children. The notion that we need to put careers and church service on the back burner for the sake of extended family seems, to me, to be a bit of a stretch. (extenuating needs and circumstances excepted)"
Why is this a stretch? Life is about family. We are taught that family is the most important thing, should be our highest priority. Every person's realtionship with extended family is different. I have some friends who relish the fact that they are so far from their families and don't have to get involved in the drama. They want as little contact as possible. I, on the otherhand grew up with cousins, aunts and uncles visiting all the time. They were a joy to us. I grew up loved and secure in that family. It was the same for my husband's family. (So I'm puzzled at why he doesn't care more about those kinds' of relationships.) I wan't my own children to experience that same sense of belonging. My older kids do, having spent many years close to them. But I've had 4 children since we left our home town, 2 since leaving our home state. And they have missed SO much. WE have tried to provide fun experiences for them here. But it breaks my heart to think they will never have those same memories.
Sometimes family ties ARE the most important thing. Crucial and vital for some people. I don't think we can prioritize someone elses values.
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Is being honest in my opinions not nice????
No. Honesty can be polite and tactful. Your comment was hurtful.
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Thanks Palerider.
Makes me wonder though. I knew a stake president who left his calling after 3 yrs. to take a new job. Tradition has them in there for 10, and bishops in for 5. Our stake president said he thought my husband was to be bishop "right now" but never assigned a time frame to it.
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I think he has only offended one person so far. Maybe two.
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Wow, Thanks for the support MrM. (not) I'm brand new to this board. Is this how warm and helpful it always is? You sound very chauvanistic. And by the way- no, it has ALWAYS been about where my husband wants to work and where our kids have done well in school. It has NEVER been about me in 25 years of marriage. EVER!!
AND I will still support him no matter what, but he tends to get complacent (too comfortable) and not stretch and reach out of his comfort zone. I think he is using this bishop thing as an excuse to not have to broaden his horizons.
Ok, I edited it out my last comment because it wasn't very nice. But honestly, are you married? If so, is it ever about her??
That book would never make it into Deseret Book. I'm curious about this series and how it came about. Maybe you should start a new thread to tell us about it, or maybe you already have sometime in the past? I've been on this forum about two days now.
little kid testimonies
in General Discussion
Posted
I served a mission in Argentina in some of the most awkward and odd branches you could imagine. But have never felt the spirit so strong before or since. I agree with you completely. I'm afraid most of these little kids are learning how to just spout off what they think is what we all want to hear rather than what they really feel.