JohnOF123

I would say that time can go forward infinitely but not backwards; do you want to hear the logic?

I think that they say, God forms the planets out of existing matter, not out of nothing, once He becomes a God.. That is all I know about how planets are formed. So its not like there are a bunch of blank planets sitting out there waiting to be claimed. A new God forms the planet, or it may be formed for Him but then you create life, things our of existing matter. Something like that. Help me out here guys, how did the planet come to be. I cant speak too much for the LDS side though. And I don't think there is a beginning in LDS theology, the process just keeps looping backwards for eternity.

I believe from the LDS view (and I could be slightly off), God used to be a man on a similar planet, like Earth. He obeyed the covenants and commands, similar to what the Mormon members now follow. He was then exalted to God of this planet. He and His wife gave birth to billions of spirit children. You existed in Heaven for a time as a spirit child, and now here you are. You must follow the ordinances and covenants to progress and be exalted to a God of your own planet yourself one day. I think this is referred to as the "eternal progression of Gods" or something like that. Or is it infinite progression... Before all this ever happened, God was a man, before that, He was a spirit baby, before that, I would guess He didn't exist. Did I get that right guys?? I tried to give it to him simple and to the point, without all the fancy words, lol. No seriously, do I have the overall concept down?

I can answer from a mainstream Christianity viewpoint, but I don't want to see Justice have a heart attack, lol.

Simply because there are none recorded in the Bible nor in history. That's all we can go by. And the fact that God mentioned who was not a true prophet in the Bible, but it does not sound like you see any authority in those passages in the Bible. Not being condescending, just saying that my reasons for believing are probably not going to be valid with you.

Thx man, lol. I tried...

Bring candy. Preferably rootbeer barrels. I love those! Lol, j/k. Does your church have any small groups? Those can be great for making friends!

mmmm pancakes.... 10 Things Christians Can Learn from Catholics Would this imply that Catholics are not Christian? I already explained that this is not what I meant, let's not take a kind and nice thread that raises up Mormons and tear it apart. Not sure if this is what you meant Moksha...

Too many simultaneous debates going on, lol. I would say that God knows the future, but uses situations to teach humans. This may appear that He is "changing His mind," but He knows the future. We know He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. However, I would also say that He must keep His good name perfect and solid and will not have a profit give a false prophecy, hence His command to stone false ones. None of the former profits of old ever gave a prophecy that did not come true, or that have been proven false.

It's not, I was just teasing..

Hmm, let's look at all the problems you had with this post and see if you are correct with each point. Muslims always face Mecca, Saudi Arabia during prayer. (reality)About.com Islam Allah does not like Jews and Christians (kill them where you find them if they won't convert). (reality) Customs and Etiquette Visitors and worshipers to Hindu temples are required to remove shoes and other footwear before entering them. (reality) Hindu temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia How does that foot taste, lolz... I'm just teasin' ya friend. I think u might need to go "Travel" some more, hehe.

I think the spirit of the article has died, lol poor article

I want the OP to come back! Wonder what he thinks? or if he exists, lol.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply anything there. Note the top of the post, I put [mainstream] in there, but I thought people would hopefully understand; sounds like you do. I was only trying to imply the 10 things listed in the article. Hope my fellow "Christians" will read this too. Think of it as "10 Things [many] Christians Can Learn from the Mormons" Or I could say "10 Things Christians Can Learn from the Baptists" It doesn't look like I'm implying Baptists are not Christians here, not to me, but sorry if it did.

To 1 I would say yes, but in Greek (over 5500 manuscripts to help, and dead sea scrolls only verified) 2 I would say no, but instead the NT fulfills the OT, and never contradicts it 3 I agree with Jesus, but probably see different fruit than you might, can't just disregard the old tests too though. no cherry pickin'

10 Things [Mainstream] Christians Can Learn from the Mormons "Over the years that I have studied world religions, I have found it fascinating to dialogue with the adherents of these faiths. So many times I come away with a better appreciation of each one and, in turn, find ways to better practice what I believe to be true. For instance, from Judaism I have been challenged to have a deeper love of the Bible. Whole chapters from the Torah are read each Sabbath, and the Jews so revere the written word that they will kiss their personal copies of the scripture and then touch them to the scroll as the rabbi parades it down the aisle. From Islam I learn the value of prayer. Five times a day the devout Muslim gets on his knees and face as he turns towards Mecca to pray to his God Allah. Such devotion to what I consider to be a false God compels me to spend more time worshipping the true and living God as revealed in the Bible. Meanwhile, Hinduism and Buddhism have taught me to better respect my place of worship. Shoes are not worn in the temples of these Eastern religions-the same is true in the Muslim's mosque-and the admiration both Hindus and Buddhists have toward their idols are obvious. While I don't see any Christian church building as anything more than concrete, wood, and carpet, the idea of coming there to commune with God should cause the Christian to enter with an attitude of awe and reverence. Just as I have benefited from observing these world religions, so too I believe that we Christians can learn important things from our Mormon friends. So here is my personal top 10 list. 10. Dedication to the heritage and the faith. From a young age, Mormon children are taught about their heritage and the struggles that the early LDS pioneers faced when it came to living their faith. On the other hand, most of us Bible-believing Christians have very little knowledge of our history, including the conflicts and persecutions of the early Christian church. As a result, we do not benefit from the examples of our own past. Being an exceptional Mormon is a high priority. Nominal Mormonism is frowned upon. There are certain expectations a Mormon must meet in order to attend the temple, a place where only "worthy" Mormons can go. To get a temple recommend card, a person is not only expected to attend regular services, but he must continually wear the temple undergarments, pay a tithe to the church, and not imbibe in social or hot drinks, among other requirements. To do this often requires the Mormon to pay a price in the secular world, as co-workers and neighbors can easily misunderstand the reasons why anyone would succumb himself to what might be considered a mundane lifestyle. 9. Overall morality. While Mormons struggle with sin just like everyone else, they are generally well known for keeping a high moral codes and abstaining from a secular lifestyle. Faithful members are not to partake in drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. Remaining chaste, personal modesty, and being honest (along with the other commandments) are important virtues in the LDS lifestyle. Of course, there are hypocrites in the LDS Church, just like anywhere else. Yet we as Christians need to be reminded that one's Christianity does not take a hiatus upon walking out the church doors on Sunday morning. Rather, our faith should influence our actions in everything we do. 8. Politics and religion mix. The Mormon Church is willing to put its money where its mouth is when political issues warrant a moral response. Certainly not every member may like the conservative stance that the LDS Church takes. But it is admirable how the Church is willing to support those things it strongly believes in. When Proposition 22, which would have given special rights to homosexuals, came up in California's Spring 2000 election, the LDS Church spent plenty of money and was quite vocal in helping to defeat this morally decrepit scheme. They rebuffed public intimidation and stood firm on their principles. Perhaps more of our Christian denominations need to understand that politics do not have to be separated from the Christian faith. 7. Organization in its leadership. The LDS Church is a well-oiled machine when it comes to organization, from the top down to the bottom. When the leaders make decisions, there is no second-guessing allowed in its ranks. There is no friendly opposition in the LDS Church. This can be a negative, of course, since a laity that is not allowed to question what its leaders do can easily become pawns, opening the doors to spiritual abuse. This is the reason why Martin Luther was compelled to write his 95 theses. He felt the Catholic Church had overstepped its boundary of authority upon its people. The Bible does not command Christians to be blindly led like sheep to the slaughter. The Mormons also have of way of getting people involved. Assignments from those in authority motivates members to become an active part of their church rather than just an observer on the sidelines. In many cases these "callings" have compelled members to stretch beyond what they even thought was their own potential. When it comes time to discipline or even excommunicate a member, the LDS Church is willing to follow through with its threat. If you are caught doing something that the church says you ought not to have done-i.e. adultery, heresy, not willing to be corrected, etc.-the local leaders have the ability to end your church membership. If you are officially excommunicated, you are prohibited from joining any other LDS ward in the entire world until you have demonstrated a satisfactory repentance. A person who is excommunicated in Christianity merely means that he must leave that particular church; in too many cases nothing prohibits him from going to the next church down the street, with no repercussions to the guilty. 6. Positive peer pressure towards missions. Many Mormon young people look with anticipation for the day when they can leave on a church mission. For the males this is a two-year commitment, 18 months for females. From an early age LDS children are taught the importance of serving their church as a missionary. Savings accounts are often started at birth, and while many young Christians are saving for bicycles, skateboards, clothes, and cars, Mormon kids are setting aside their resources for their mission. Tens of thousands of Mormon missionaries serve each year, two-by-two, all over the world. Wouldn't it be wonderful if every Christian young person were encouraged to spend two years of his or her life on the mission field? Perhaps many more career missionaries would be a result if short-term missions became a Christian priority. 5. Respecting Sundays as sacred. Sundays in the Mormon Church are treated as a quiet day, a time to reflect and be with the family after attending the morning service at the local ward. Recreational and sporting activities as well as retail excursions are discouraged. At an LDS softball field located next to the Spokane temple, posted signs clearly prohibit anyone playing there on Sundays. While such a rigid rule can certainly become legalistic, the biblical mandate to have a day of rest is too often ignored by many Christians who live in a stress-filled, gotta-do-it-now/gotta-have-it-immediately world. We should not forget that the day of rest was created for the benefit of man. 4. Religious education for the youth. The LDS Church is very concerned about educating its young people in the ways of its faith. First, the system is very uniform. What the LDS children learn in California is taught to another ward in Florida. When the child becomes a teenager, he is encouraged to attend daily before-school "seminary" classes at the local ward or stake center. Studies in the Book of Mormon, the Bible, church history, and doctrine are rotated over a four-year period. By the time the Mormon teen graduates from high school, he or she has been given a systematic overview of the faith's basic beliefs. For those who end up going on a mission, the training given at a Missionary Training Center is condensed, well organized, and prepares the young person to be effective in recruiting new members. Later, when the college years come and the young adult is challenged in his faith, he will have some possible answers to help him remain faithful to his religion. 3. Helping to supply the needs of the membership. Mormons are known for being generous, even going out of their way to help their fellow members. Many times a group of Mormons will band together to help in a project that benefits another Mormon. The LDS Church also has a welfare program, with a food pantry available for members who are out of work or in a low-income category. The individuals are expected to give back in some form of labor, including volunteering at the Mormon-owned canneries or food processing plants. Truly actions, not words ("be warm and filled"), are what it means to be part of a functioning body. 2. Preventing members from falling through the cracks. When a Mormon fails to attend the services of his designated local ward for several weeks, he is sure to be missed. Home teachers who visit once a month will try to find out if there are any problems and figure out how to remedy the situation. It is not like there is anywhere else to go, for the Mormon is required to be registered with a particular ward. While I am not suggesting that Christian churches should become legalistic nags in order to force its membership to attend meetings and volunteer for projects, perhaps the general idea of following up on those who all of a sudden are no longer there would fulfill the shepherd role that the church is supposed to have. 1. The importance of families. And the number-one thing we can learn from the Mormons is (drum roll, please) the priority the Mormon Church places on family life. Certainly many Christian families are very successful. Yet few churches emphasize the importance of the family like the Mormons do; they even set aside every Monday evening for Family Home Evenings to play games, talk, do devotions, etc. I would stop short of saying that Mormon family life is utopia despite the image portrayed by LDS television commercials. But I do commend them for their efforts. Conclusion: By making this list, I certainly would not want to insinuate that all Christian churches fail in these areas. And these are certainly not reasons [to authenticate the one or in-authenticate the other]..." {credit goes to Eric Johnson}

Ok so are you saying that 1) you dont believe everything the Bible, 2) you think the NT contradicts the OT, 3) you have a different test than that in the OT. I'm just trying to rephrase your statements, not put words in your mouth. But in short and very blunt answers, is this correct?

I see what you're saying. I'm not doubting their fallibility, but if they spoke for God, if something was not true, then In Israel when a prophet's word failed to come true, they took him out and stoned him. This had cut down sharply on the number of false prophets. They were that serious about the prophetic ministry. However, now we just loosely say they were fallible. That is why I ask.

Hey I was just wondering how you might reconcile this looser view of prophets with the Old Testament version in which the Jews were commanded by God to stone men who claimed to be prophets, but spoke of things that were not true or did not come to pass. Would some of these prophets have been stoned if they lived back then? I'm curious to what people think on this. Not trying to be confrontational, but I really do wonder how this matter is resolved in the eyes of the LDS.

I think I'd have to pack up my wife and make like a tree, heh. Now you see me, now you don't. "Hey where did that guy go, he was here just a minute ago."

These are some of my favorite contemporary Christian songs... YouTube - Our God is an Awesome God

Not sure if this fully applies to what you were asking for. LDS.org - Music Callings and Resources

Hey Blackmarch, I've seen you around christianforums.com! what's up. i just realized cause of the panther. I didn't know that the LDS believed this. How many wives do they think or agree he had? Do they believe he took other mens wives like some claim? Sometimes I'll joke around with my wife that I have a revelation to marry a couple of her friends, and that she gets to pick which ones it will be, lol. But she says she would pick the ugliest ones possible, hehe.

Let me help clear up the way you see this. In my definition, as you said, Time would indeed be past present and future, but where you don't see the separation is that the past is not the present, whereas modalism would say that the past is the present, if it wants to be. In modalism, there can be no "is not" in this picture. Hope that helps! If you are still a little fuzzy on this, just look up "modalism vs trinitarianism" on the internet and you will see this same sort of diagram used over and over again to explain the trinity in comparison to modalism. And you will find that modalism denies this analogy. Tell that to a Jew, lol. And I think you meant to say, "some LDS Bible scholars agree that"... If you got this information from a source, then that source denies reality, denies history, denies everything ever written about Jewish beliefs, and denies Jewish beliefs today. I gotta say, I don't think many LDS would agree with you here, not on this fact. Here ya go, here is a list of over 200 Jewish Synagogues and Seminaries found in New York, the highest population of Jews outside of Israel. Go ahead and find one that say Jews, modern or ancient, believe in more than one God (you won't). Good luck! jewish Synagogue in New York - YELLOWPAGES.COM

I like some modern Christian music, but not the ones that try to make Jesus sound like your boyfriend. I think they call those "Jesus-my-boyfriend" songs. You can recognize them because when you swap all the times it says Jesus with someones name, it turns into a love song. Here are some lyrics: 1. All I need to do is just be me, being in love with you. 2. My world stops spinning round, without you. 3. I never want to leave; I want to stay in your warm embrace. Stuff like that. However, I really love Sermon Jams. Not sure if you've heard of them, but it's like a sermon mixed with music. They don't play them on the radio, but you can usually find them on YouTube and stuff.