JohnOF123

I love the Muslim people very much. I have Muslim friends and am working on learning Arabic, which I enjoy. But people should be aware of certain things. The God of the Bible loves Jews (they are His chosen people) and Christians (they are His children). He loves everybody. And the God of the Qur'an (Allah) hates the Jews and Christians. Satan is very clever to take religion and swap God and Satan. I can show you how these roles have been swapped, but I choose to respect the moderators wishes on this matter. If you really wish to discuss something further, feel free to PM. I'm not here to slander a people, but we should be wise as Christians. Let us show our love to the Muslim people and bring them to faith in Jesus Christ.

Ohh, haha. I didn't even see that! Thx, fixed

Jesus didn't say children were sinless. In the next verse, Jesus explains that we must humble ourselves as a little "child" See, there are many men who refuse to believe, or change their belief. They lack humility like that of a child. The Pharisees were a good example of this, they were too proud to change their mind. Matthew 11:25 Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. I have seen angry 2 and 3 year olds and I can tell you they are a perfect example of our sinful state. They will lie, yell, be selfish, bite you, etc etc. Some kids are better than others but we are all born in sin. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: I have to believe these passages and it explains reality, with children and men.

Lol, it turned into a big scary story didn't it. If anyone should see anything here, it is that the world may one day be dominated by a religion that allows end times prophecy to be fulfilled. Reminds me that my wife is afraid of the Book of Revelations, lol. I'll now concentrate on making some threads people really enjoy for a couple days, hehe.

Lol, yea, I wish it was. Mecca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Source Wikipedia Make sure you don't miss that exit ramp!!

I believe this is the sign you will see at the highway on the way to Mecca.

My mistake, it was Surah 2:191, not 187. Thanks for pointing that out. I invite you to travel to The Kaaba, put on a Jewish kippah or a Christian cross, and see how long you live. The "extremists" in this case are very faithful to the teachings in the Qur'an. I'm sorry to say that Islam is not a religion of peace. Note that my purpose of this thread was not to "bash" a religion, but to point out prophecy on its way to fulfillment. In the Bible, every people group that Jesus claims to make war with on His second coming are now a Muslim nation. Converting from Islam to any other religion is illegal in Yemen and can be punishable by death. This is also the case in many areas of the world. The Muslim world uses Qur'an 4:089 to justify execution for conversion away from Islam. Here are a couple examples of that type of event by a government power. Hanged for being a Christian in Iran - Telegraph FOXNews.com - Afghan Man Faces Death for Allegedly Converting to Christianity - U.S. & World Nigeria.com Discussion Forums - DEATH PENALTY FOR CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY Yemen detains 9 people for converting from Islam to Christianity - Jihad Watch

This is a very interesting video I actually heard on the radio. We all know how the Bible says that Christians will be hunted down and executed (be-headed) during the end times. This sounds barbaric to us, unless we consider 1 (one) people group whom may still do this: The Islamic religion. Technically, North Korea will jail you for Christianity, but it is not due to a religious zeal or Holy Book. The government in many Islamic countries will kill their people for converting to Christianity. It is amazing to see prophecy from the Bible and end-times unfold right before our eyes. I always wondered how it could be that the World would hunt Christians down in the end times. But if these demographics are accurate, then it now makes more sense. The Qur'an teaches in Sura 2:191 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them" speaking of Christians and Jews.

I just want to say something; off topic. I really enjoy talking to everyone on here. You all have very interesting view points and ideas. I commend all of you for having such a zeal for God and for truth. Most people are only concerned with "getting their work done" then having time to themselves. But you are on here to preach and learn about God. It is great to learn each others view points so we can better understand real people out in the real world. Clean, respectful debate can be healthy in this sense. And a big thanks for talking to me, and to the moderators for allowing me to talk.

Hard to swallow, I know. I am just saying what the Bible teaches. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Psalm 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. As far as your analogy goes, "Imperfection" is also found in eye sight, natural disasters, mentally retarded individuals, birth deformities, etc, etc. The truth is that we are all sinners. We would never seek after God unless He first draws us to Him. We are selfish and sin everyday. We have broken all of His commandments. We are born spiritually dead. Ephesians 2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" We were warned Genesis 2:17 "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" They didn't physically die, they spiritually died. And we are born spiritually dead. "No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again’” (John 3:3-7). The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above."

Yea, reaaallllyyy embarrassed. What's the word for that, lol. Yes, ashamed is a better word than fear, thx.

"We will all give an account one day." "It is appointed for a man once to die and then the judgement." "we who teach will be judged more strictly" I understand that I won't be judged in the same courtroom as those who reject Christ, but what am I going to say when I am judged and have to give an account for my life. That's what is nerve racking to me. I thank you for you vote of confidence, but in John 3:18 I believe the way judged is being used is the same as condemned. We will not be condemned (but we will be physically judged), otherwise my above references would contradict this. But if John is speaking that we will not be condemned (judged), then this all flows nicely in context. So we will be judged by the amount of light in us. We will all give an account. But those in Christ will not be condemned. I'm saved but this is still nerve racking to me. Not for fear of condemnation, but because I fail so miserably... to go before a perfect, Holy and just God will be something.

Hello Changed. I think I halfway agree with you here. I agree that we are changed from A to B, however I think I disagree with what those A and B are and also the means to which we are changed. Let me explain. I believe at first we are A: creation, lost, spiritually dead, enemies with God. We then become B: saved, spiritually alive, born of Zion above, adopted children of God. And here is an example of somebody being saved. I believe our means to salvation is that those whom God draws to him, see themselves for what they truly are (a wretched lost sinner with no way to appease God's wrath apart from faith in Christ) completely humble themselves before God, die to themselves, throw themselves at the foot of the cross for mercy and are supernaturally changed? At this time, they are changed and adopted as a child of God (their heart of stone is ripped out and given a heart of flesh) and by nature they do good works. Out of this new nature comes good works. A cow goes moo because it's in his nature to do so. (Saved people do good works because it is in their new nature) Mooing cannot make you a cow. (Doing good works cannot make you saved) Good fruit does not make a tree good. A good tree bears good fruit. But I found all of the above in the Bible, all clear and straight forward. I would have to disagree here. I think it is clear that Jesus created us, so I don't see how we can all be brothers with a spiritual mother. Colossians 1:15-17 ...his dear Son: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And this is also backed up by John 1:1-3 I like your analogy (and kung-foo movies ), but I have to say that I emptied myself completely before God. He fills me daily with His Word, and I think what you might be asking me to do, without knowing it, is for me to empty myself of God's Word [bible] to fill it with modern revelation. I could be wrong here, but are you asking me to empty myself of the Bible to fill myself with modern revelation? Or can I keep myself filled with God's Word and examine other doctrine? I will agree with you that some people can just interpret things, but many times it is clear as day and states things as fact, without need for interpretation. For example, did Jesus create all things in heaven (and on earth) by Himself and for Himself?

I think we would all agree that we show faith in Christ by conforming to His image and being obedient to his words, but my point in the original thread was not to put our faith in that obedience, or any works done, but only faith in what Christ did. For instance, to think in our heart "God will accept me because I did this and that" or because "I" anything. But we should rather think in our heart "I am a sinner and Christ is my righteousness; my works are fruit that come out of this faith in Christ." I am not trying to preach to the choir here, but if I was misunderstood I am only trying to lay out my perspective of what I mean to say. When Christ was on the cross, all of my sin was imputed onto Him; He never sinned once but all of my sin was upon Him. On the last day, all of His righteousness can be imputed onto us, even though I'm not righteous. My works are like "filthy rags" before God. If I do anything "good" it only puts me further in debt with God since it is from Him those good works came. I dare not attempt to rob Him of His glory by claiming any righteousness apart from Christ. Not ME 5% + Jesus 95% Righteousness but instead ME neg-99999999% and Jesus (Infinite) Righteousness I only come with faith (and debt). My ultimate point is that rather than spend effort in my life to debate people, this should really be my only worry. The core of it all. Luke 18:10-14 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Do you mean in every day life? Or do you mean me specifically? {I'll keep an eye out for those Pam}

Another great Sermon Jam coming at ya! YouTube - Piper Psalm 51 Sermon Jam

All theology aside, because we can all debate scripture until we are blue in the face... when it all boils down, my only concern is this. If I could give one piece of advise, it would be this one thing. On the day that you face God at Judgement Day, and He asks for an account of your life, please don't dare think your works or "goodness" will be a means to your salvation. Completely, completely, completely have only faith in Jesus Christ on that day (and today). Live like it and die like it, for Christ is our righteousness. Watch the first 1 minute of this video for an example of what I'm saying.

YouTube - The Star of Bethlehem Part 1 Check that out if you'd like to see one mans perspective on exactly when Christ was born. People have been trying to nail down what the Star of Bethlehem was for centuries, but I think this guy might truly have it. Great video, many people have watched it around Christmas time.

I'll agree here, Adam was the son of God. And I'll also agree with Jesus that those men were not the "children of God".

What is there to interpret when men claim to be children of God and Jesus says No, you're children of the devil? It seems whenever you don't agree with something so clearly said, (children, adoption) you say it's based on interpretation. Ok, wait, I don't mean to be rude here, but what I mean to say is that can't we just let the Bible speak for itself? I can give you a map and you can attempt to interpret it anyway you wish, but it's not going to be of any use to you unless you trust what it plainly says. "Our Father is God", and Jesus said “if God were your Father, ye would love me. And a verse later Jesus said "Ye are of your father the devil" Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"

I agree, let's go deep, lol. I find it very interesting to talk about how these teachings are reconciled in light of what Jesus and the Bible claim. I'm interested in Justices perspective on this, and others of course.

I tend to disagree on this point. I just gotta jump in here and remind everyone that we are not born children of God. I would say that we are Gods creation, but are not children of God until we are saved; we then become adopted as children of God. We cannot ignore that there were Jews that claimed "Our Father is God", and Jesus told them “if God were your Father, ye would love me (in other words, God is not your Father). And a verse later Jesus said "Ye are of your father the devil" Right there, here are some Jewish men, and we know that they were born. And Jesus just told them that they are not children of God. Men born not children of God. So on earth, we know there are men who are children of God and men who are not children of God. We are further told Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" So wouldn't you agree with Jesus that these men were not "children of God" and that the Bible says that we are rather adopted by faith in Christ. I'd be interested in your input, but from scripture, not based on our feelings or what makes more sense to us. If we feel one way, and scripture says we are wrong, then we have to conform to God's Word.

They we hard headed or "stiff necked" as God puts it. The Bible even proclaimed that He would be rejected by His own people. The prophecies in Isaiah and Psalm 22 described a suffering Messiah who would be persecuted and killed, but they chose to focus instead on those prophecies that discussed His glorious victories, not His crucifixion.

Well, when you study the whole Bible in its context, then you can clearly understand what a specific passage says, and your interpretation is more valid than the person I will explain next. Some other people, as you said, pick out certain passages to support their belief, even though that belief contradicts many other parts of the Bible speaking of the same subject. Let me give you an example: Billy belongs to a religion. He was always been taught as a Jehovah Witness that only 144,000 elite JW’s will go to heaven. His source is Revelation 7:4-8 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." Now another person named Bob also belongs to a religion. However Bob studies the complete Bible in context. After his studies, he has read things such as... "..whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.." "everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved" "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" And furthermore, when Bob studied the same scripture interpreted wrong by Billy, it is obvious that the 144,000 are all literal Jews of the ancient tribes with no Gentiles among them (7:4-8). They are all males (14:4) and virgins (14:4). Bob can be more confident that his interpretation is more Biblical than that of Billy, and Billy must be willing to conform to the Bible, not the other way around. This is how some interpretations can be trusted and some cannot. (pertaining to your request of my interpretations of baptism and such, let us start a new thread on that subject)

I'm not talking about the "grey areas" that could be interpreted differently. I more or less talking about when one Book calls it "only red" and the other say it's not red but "only blue". Things that are cut and dry. If I can find that, then it can't flow with the Bible. But perhaps I won't. The point is, I cannot just pray about it and rely on my feelings. I will indeed pray about it, dont get me wrong, but I have to rely on the only light I have, the Bible. Like I said, in this case, it is cut and dry. I'm not interpreting what the Bible says about trusting my feelings and I'm not interpreting what it says about a people group not trusting but searching the scriptures. I'm reading it plainly with no interpretation at all.