Rosabella

Using your terms (this little phrase means something) "These signs of the Second Coming are all around us" That is my point. They are around us. If speaking of Noah is not applicable then why did Elder Cannon talk about it while he was talking about the present? My point is that we dismiss the very warnings that we have been told would and do exist to show we are in the Last days. We dismiss them as they always have occurred and the second coming has not happened, nor do we think it will in our day. What I am trying to say is are we listening truly to the Prophets when they say the time is near. It should be apparent I have used quotes from 100 years ago to show that it was present then as it is present now. That does not mean Christ will come tomorrow or this year or in the next 10 years etc. What I am saying is so many disregard the signs around us as nothing, yet we are told directly they are the signs. I think it is highly relevant to use Noah as an example for he hearkened to the Lord. Those in his family hearkened to him as a prophet. I am not saying that all on this forum are asserting that there will be no second coming, but I am asking are we ready? Do we understand the signs? Do we accept that it could be sooner than we think? Primarily I am asking are we doing the very thing we are told we would do to brush off all the signs of the times with scientific excuses or any other excuses as we are warned not to? It does not matter to me if these are warning signs of 20 , 50 , 100 years out, want concerns me is people forget God is behind them and therefore do not repent and get their houses in order. They dismiss that these are the acts of God regarding the idea as silliness or some kind of paranoid superstition. I read the thread on "If you obey the commandments you'll prosper in the land" and it became very evident that God's hand in all things is mocked. So I started this thread to ask whether we are recognizing God's prophecies being fulfilled or not. My point is in and outside the Church people say the earthquakes are nothing but just nature and have no spiritual meaning, yet Prophets keep telling us they do today not in the future but today. Earthquakes will get worse before the second coming, but that does not lessen the fact that the ones that are happening now are also signs preceding the second coming. We cannot dismiss them so easily, especially when the Prophet and Apostles have told us not to.

Elder George Q. Cannon: "As it was in the days of Noah. The inhabitants of the earth did this in the days of Noah. They did not believe there would be any flood. They went on enjoying themselves in their way, notwithstanding the message that Noah delivered to them. But still the flood came, and the hardened nations were drowned, and the earth was cleansed from their presence. In these last days the Lord has made many predictions concerning the judgments with which mankind shall be visited if they would not repent. Destruction should come upon them as a whirlwind. In the very beginning and before this Church was organized the Lord foretold what would happen if the people hardened their hearts against the testimony of His servants. He said: For a desolating scourge shall go forth among the inhabitants of the earth, and shall continue to be poured out from time to time, if they repent not, until the earth is empty, and the inhabitants thereof are consumed away and utterly destroyed by the brightness of my coming. Behold, I tell you these things, even as I also told the people of the destruction of Jerusalem; and my word shall be verified at this time as it hath heretofore been verified. (D&C 5:19-20.) These are the words of Him who rules and who does not speak in vain. Whether the world heed or believe them or not, they will be fulfilled as surely as were the words of the Lord in the days of Noah. (Dec. 15, 1900, JI 35:825) " I choose to hearken as those that got on the Ark did.

For me personally being LDS the words of Prophets declaring this as part of the signs is all I need to know that it is exactly that. Actually I have done lots of research on this subject of earthquakes and am very well informed on the topic, that is not my point. My point has been well represented by the prior post. My point is that we have been warned that we WILL dismiss the acts of God as nothing, just as these "data" that has been posted above says that earthquakes not increasing. I will not hearken to the world and the worlds view I will cleave to the words of the Lords Anointed Oracles. The same mocking happened in the book of Mormon regarding the many earthquakes and signs of His coming to America. Unbelievers always try to explain away God's acts as either natural events or man made causes. They also out right deny the words of the Lord's Prophets. He caused them then and He causes them now. So the history of the earths quakes is merely proof of God's activity in the past. Just as the Flood, Earthquakes at Christs Death, Plagues in Egypt etc. I do not read the scriptures as myths or made up explanations of natural events. Nor do I disregard warnings given by Prophets. We always look back and wonder why Laman and Lemuel could mock God and murmur after seeing an Angel or why those that witness the great miracles of Moses could turn so quick from their faith to idolatry. It is easy to see as we live in a day where we are doing the same. Here is another Anointed of the Lord saying the same thing. Do we dare say He is wrong? If so then our testimony of the church is in vain. I will not lean on the arm of flesh but I will hearken to God's mouthpieces on earth. I will not deny their testimony that "These signs of the Second Coming are all around us" and we "We are living in the prophesied time". We are being called to repentance will we listen?

I agree we have not seen anywhere close to the fullness of God's wrath yet! I fear many are not seeing the signs of the times as being just that. Back in the time of Elder Cannon people would not see what was happening as God's judgments and admit to themselves that these things are truly of God, but dismissed them as non-prophecies. I fear many are doing that also today even within the Church.

George Q. Cannon: Ordained an apostle in 1860, he subsequently served as counselor to Presidents Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and Lorenzo Snow I hear many say the earthquakes we see in the world today are not proof of God's judgments but merely we are recording more now or that they are caused by Global warming or even a government secret project called HARRP. Are we not just making excuses not to see the Lord's hand in these things? Are we not just doing as Elder Cannon said we would do, denying the hand of God in the events of our days?

Matthew0059 I was just reading this article and it appears to fit with along what you are saying. LDS.ORG Chapter 44: Preparing for the Second Coming of Christ,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, 389 The warnings are not solely for our nation but also our Church members. I feel we are dealing with two forms of God's wrath. First the blessing and curse that this land holds for those that choose to follow Christ or choose reject Him. Second the judgments prior to the second coming of Christ. Either way if is due to the wrath of God for our iniquities. These things have been foretold and will happen regardless of our personal belief in them or not. We should not be surprised to see what has been prophesied to occur actually occurring or disregard it when we have been warned about it and are continuing to being warned. We are told we are in the last days during perilous times. We are just seeing the words of God through His Prophets being fulfilled.

I feel the Lord's hand is in all things. We experience his blessings or His wrath as the scripture tell us again and again and give evidence of this. Seas are parted, plagues are sent, civilizations protected others destroyed. We may not always recognize blessings from the Lord or recognizes His wrath when it comes. Man always tends to lean on the arm of flesh and his own understandings leaving God's will and God's great influence out of their view of this temporal world. We live in a time when the Lord's hand is being mocked and man raised to the place of gods. As we are told in this scripture this is a dangerous path.

I think I understand what you are saying here and agree, but I want to clarify what I am trying to say. Personally I would not connect the positive side of agency with diversity. Sometimes we are saying the same thing but thinking different definitions of words. Here is the definition I am using when I refer to diversity: diversity 1. the state or fact of being diverse; difference; unlikeness. 2. a point of difference. Synonyms change, difference, variation, dissimilarity. diverse 1. of a different kind, form, character, etc.; unlike: a wide range of diverse opinions. Synonyms 1. varied, manifold, divergent. 2. dissimilar, separate. Antonyms identical, same, uniform, similar. These to me seem to be in direct opposition with the oneness we are told to have with Father. When we truly follow Christ we become one with Him and we become more like Him. When we follow Lucifer's prideful ways we become more like him. I think that is why you see those that have fallen into sin acting like chattel. There are truly only two paths to be and become more like. Both if followed to their fullness create an appearance of similarities. There is opposition in all things to learn and grow and choose between them. Christ or Lucifer; righteousness and wickedness; holiness versus misery; good versus bad. We choose between two paths. It is by our Moral Agency we get to choose. Agency or Moral Agency is a vital piece in this discussion for it plays the key role in our progression or lack of progression. This is a wonderful talk that I have found myself pondering over for hours. Moral Agency. D. Todd Christofferson, “Moral Agency,” Ensign, Jun 2009, 46–53 LDS.org LINK Here are some quotes: So yes, true freedom comes from the correct use of our Agency. Freedom, liberty and progression are not in the diversity itself but in the agency that diversity or opposition offers us to choose between. We choose to submit our will or to not to. There are only two choices. I feel we cannot become more diverse and become more like Father at the same time. We must become identical and uniform with Father to be like Him. Our personal diversities are described as talents or weaknesses. Weaknesses are given to all men so they might be humble. Talents are given to better serve the kingdom of God but sadly can also create pride. The diversity in man in this temporal world serves its divine purpose. It enables us to have the varieties of choice and experiences that drive us to choose between the only two choices we have: to serve God or serve the devil. We choose by agency to serve one or the other. True progression to the level of wholeness and perfection is purging all of our pride or our desire for separation, uniqueness or diversity from God and becoming completely like Father.

Seminarysnoozer Thank you for your kind words, but I think you have expressed your thoughts very eloquently and have worded things in a way that I wanted to say also :) I agree with all that you are saying. This topic for me has been a lifetime fascination. The understanding of humility and pride, the examples in there fullness are Christ and Lucifer. Understanding these two paths is what we are truly here to learn and choose between. The goal is to become like Father in the way Christ did. To become as Father we need to completely submit our wills to Him, therefore doing as Christ did. If we choose our own will at any point of progression and do not repent of it then we have become prideful like Lucifer and have followed his example and become like him instead.

There is a reason why all do not propser as we think. The word prosper definition is not what people think it is. I found a good article on LDS.org regarding this topic. LDS.org LINK We tend to think of prosperity to be merely as wealth and abundance of temporal blessings. True prosperity is far more than that. It is spiritual prosperity which sometimes comes with temporal abundance but not always. Nevertheless those who are faithful will be prosperous in the sense that they will have a constant hope and confidence that God will provide for them and supply their basic needs. The Church has defined "basic needs" as food and water, clothing and shelter. Anything beyond this is a blessing above our basic needs. We are promised that if this country worships Christ: "it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land". When we do not worship God on this land we have the promise of being swept off. The Book of Mormon is all about the Pride Cycle that occurs in civilizations on this land. It shows us examples of multiple civilizations not heeding this warning. The great circle of the pride cycle is Humility and Repentance then Righteousness and Prosperity then Pride and Wickedness then Destruction and Suffering then Humility and Repentance etc... if we do not repent the civilization ends. The Book of Mormon was given to us today for it was written for our time and is to be likened to ourselves. When you liken the Book of Mormon to what has happened with our country you can see we are in the midst of the Pride and Wickedness stage for we used to put God first in this country but He has been abandoned and man walks in his own way which is Pride. This means the next step that will occur and has occurred at this stage to all other civilizations here on this land will be Destruction and Suffering. This is to call us to repentance and to come back to God. Prosperity sadly causes pride in many, causing them to feel they do not need God or to believe all their blessings have come from themselves (arm of flesh). This thinking causes wickedness to grow rampantly.

I think these scriptures pretty much sum it up. (The Jaredites prepare for their journey to a promised land—It is a choice land whereon men must serve Christ or be swept off.)

Seminarysnoozer I think you have made a very important point. I feel as you do and here are my reasons. Aside from inconsequential personal preferences like preferring the taste of blueberries over strawberries (which may turn out to be only a temporal difference and have zero eternal meaning), Heavenly Father and Mother set the perfect standard for godhood. As we grow ever closer to fulfilling Christ's example, we will find ourselves desiring more and more to shed anything that makes us act or think differently from Them. We will long to become more like Them and in the course of eternity we shall, provided we continue to submit our will to Father's. The world teaches and praises diversity. Their concept of oneness is not uniformity in righteousness, but rather universal tolerance of all differences. In the Lord's plan, tolerance is necessary to help love people into desiring to undertake the path of discipleship, but ultimately true disciples will want to remake themselves more and more into the express likeness of God, freely and without compulsion. Just as The Son is like the Father in action and desires, so He resembles the Father so perfectly, even in appearance that Joseph Smith described them as nearly indistinguishable. I do not think that is only because Christ was the begotten Son of the Father. I would imagine that any person who attains to that level of holiness will begin to resemble our heavenly parents too. It is pride that makes us desire uniqueness and individuality. We want to do things "Our" way. True discipleship is giving up self-centeredness and becoming selfless. In this state of humility we are teachable and are able then to be molded into the likeness of Christ, who is in the likeness of the Father. We are told to take upon us the countenance of Christ not to create an individual unique presence. There is but one path to Godhood. It is full complete purging of pride and the ultimate submission to Father's will that makes us "perfect" or "whole" or "complete". Pride in people causes them to desire to be different, to somehow be "special". They wrongly feel that this individuality will bring them joy. The true joy comes from letting go of self and becoming one with Father in all things. He is perfection. Why would we not want to be exactly like Him? The adversary is the example of wanting to attain Godhood his own way. It is said that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of pride. Pride is manifested in the focus on self. In D&C 1:16 it says in the last days "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall." I see this in the world today as the world preaches diversity and tolerance therein. The world revels in oneness in diversity not oneness in righteousness. In this life we each come here with unique talents and gifts and circumstances, but that is only a temporal state in which to learn and grow to choose or not to choose to become like Father. To glory in the individual uniqueness is to glory in what is temporal not eternal. Our uniqueness here is a result in part of the fact that we have progressed in different areas and have different gifts from Father. This is a temporary state. Ultimately if we choose to continue to progress, we will become "complete or whole" meaning we will all possess all of the gifts and attributes of God. It is interesting to note that in scriptural descriptions of the degrees of glory, the Telestial kingdom is where people differ from one another in brightness or in other words, where they are diverse. In the Terrestrial and Celestial kingdoms people are described as having only one glory. It would appear that in the higher two kingdoms people are all striving for the same goal, while in the Telestial kingdom everyone is striving to glory in their separateness and uniqueness. The two higher kingdoms are the ones which those that want to follow Father achieve. The higher the glory the more they have purged pride and have humbled themselves to be molded into the image of Christ. So in my opinion the highest level, where people become exactly like Father is to literally become like Him in all ways. The key is understanding that at no point is anyone forced to conform to the divine standard, we are free to be as similar to or as different from Father and each other as we want. If it is critically important to us to maintain a really unique and separate way of being, then we will find the Telestial kingdom to be the most comfortable place for us. If on the other hand we are not so prideful and attached egotistically to our individuality and uniqueness, then we will have no difficulty seeking to conform more perfectly to Father's example and will find joy in a higher glory. There is only one path to the highest level of Glory and it is complete and true humility and full total submission to Father that leads us onto it. On this path we choose to be as much like Him as we are willing to submit.

In pondering the first post this came to mind. I find it interesting that the world right now is talking much about us being creators. Creators of our reality, creators our blessings, creators of the conditions of the planet etc. I do not think our test here in mortality is to learn to become creators in this life. I think our test is if we will become true followers of God. We do not create anything. We can only do the Lord's will or not. We must understand our "nothingness" to then be willing to submit our will to Him to mold us and teach us. We do not have powers of our own, we merely can be used as willing instruments in God's hands. We are told to be like a child submissive, meek, humble etc. The world teaches the opposite. It teaches us to become creators and create a better world by our will. Our church teaches to submit to the Lord's will and to call others to do the same, which is repentance. Worshiping is merely what our heart focuses on and trusts. If we focus on God and follow His example we are worshiping him. "Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn’t also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry." Spencer W. Kimball, “The False Gods We Worship. The worship of an idol can be worshiping ourselves, as that is what Lucifer worships. This is Pride: The love of self over the Love of God. Christ showed us the correct example of how to worship Father. He showed us what to do with our will or our desires and where are heart should be when he said in Gethsemane “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but Thine, be done”. We are told that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of Pride. It was pride that caused Lucifer to fall. He wanted to become a god without submitting his will to Father's. He had an alternate plan of salvation for mankind and fought Father over it. He was completely unwilling to submit his will to Father and Father's plan along with 1/3 of the host of heaven. Christ was willing to submit to Father's will in ALL things. True worship of God is having our hearts and trust set upon the Lord. It means we desire to emulate Him. The only path to this is by purging oneself of anything self-focused. Removing all the aspects of pride and becoming completely humble and teachable to learn how to become like Him in all ways. It is not the attainment of God-like powers such as creation (spiritual or physical), but to become selfless and willing to submit to all things in which the Father deems we need to be refined. It is the loss of self in which we are found and find our purpose and our joy. "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 16:25 The core of worship is being willing to be teachable and purging all pride to become truly humble. I do not feel anything we do is for the Glory of ourselves or of others. It is only to Glorify God that we submit to His will. In doing so we can become as He is, without pride. All good that we do comes from God, we are not the source of good. We can choose good, but in choosing good we are merely doing the Lord's will, not our will. Christ is the great example of this. He and Father were one in will. Though as the scripture even shows, He asked if the cup could be taken from Him, but said "nevertheless Thy will". Becoming Perfect or Whole is what we become once our will is completely in line with Father's will. May God Be With You Rosabella