Rosabella

I am far more aware of things they you give me credit for. Naivete is not a strong suit of mine. I personally know exactly how the Brethren convene on matters and how much they truly agree on. They are not bickering prideful men as so many try to paint them as. I think the picking apart of the Brethren comes from pride in the individual and has nothing to do with what truly is going on amongst the Brethren. I fear far more for the personal salvation of those that focus on what they perceive to be errors of the Brethren far more than for those who might seem to blindly follow. If I were to err I would rather err on following an Apostle or a Prophet then not hearkening to them. For if I follow the Prophet and it is he that was wrong I will be held blameless. LINK below This site has wonderful quotes on this topic: President Harold B. Lee gave the following testimony and warning:

There is a long list of Church publications including the Ensign which prints conference reports. What is stated in conference is Church doctrines. We must keep in mind Apostles are Prophets, Seers and Revelators. The New Testament was written by Apostles. Are we to disregard them also? What is the point of Conference if it does not teach Church doctrines? Why are we told to listen to the ordained mouthpieces of God if what they say does not matter?

I would like to point out is that all talks in conference are written then approved before hand by the First Presidency. Therefore we do not have to second guess if an Apostle is stating something incorrectly for it has been pre-approved by those with authority. Therefore all talks at conference are to be taken very seriously and not dismissed as Apostles having flaws or weaknesses or even political opinions. We are safe to say what is said at conference is the Churches position on any given matter. When they speak at conference they are not speaking their opinions at conference but speaking for the whole Church as mouth pieces of God. Whatever is said at conference I have learned if there is a contrast between my thoughts and those presented it is me that needs to change.

LINK Ezra Taft Benson, “A Witness and a Warning,” Ensign, Nov 1979, 31 More recently, President Marion G. Romney, in the First Presidency Message in the September 1979 Ensign, wrote: We must awaken to “a sense of [our] awful situation, because of this secret combination which [is] among [us]” (Ether 8:24). We must not tolerate accommodation with or appeasement toward the false system of Communism.

I think the primary reason "some" consider him controversial is he spoke out against communism and socialism. He said communism was the greatest anti-Christ threat of the time. Those that are not as opposed to those political ideas as he was find him controversial.

Thank you Finrock you have stated my point perfectly.

Willingness to obey is humility and willfulness not to obey is pride. We live in a world where willfulness is glorified and true humility mocked as a weakness. How much more strength is truly needed to submit ones will to God over just doing that which our will desires? Where is the glory in doing your own will? There is none. Through obedience we learn to let go of our selfish ways and abide in the higher laws which lead us on the path to become as Father. Disobedience is the path that leads to stopping progression, no matter how small the error may be it will end our progression if not repented of. I agree that obedience teaches selflessness, the giving up of our own will to do the will of the Father.

From now on any and all of my posts, IF I decide to make anymore, will only be directed to those that are polite, respectful and seem truly willing to have a conversation without personal attacks. My posts will always come from a perspective of absolute faith in the scriptures and the Prophets and Apostles. I have a personal testimony of them and I and my husband have had the blessing to know many of them personally and have even been in their homes. They are true men of God. I will ignore any posts that attack either me or the Church leaders, or any posts that cast aspersions on them or the scriptures. I enjoy sincere questions from searchers of truth; those are always welcome, but posts that are contentious will not be addressed.

The link I posted was merely to show that there were other sites out there that say opposite things about earthquakes increasing. I have actually not taken a direct stand on that topic but have said if the GAs say it is so, I will stand by them over scientists. Some GAs have said that earthquakes are increasing or that they seem to be. Yet that is not the point. The key is that they are telling us we live in the times of the signs of the last days. My purpose was merely to ask, do we reconized that all these things are signs? I had hoped to just use earthquakes as a jumping off place on to other topics. Instead it became the whole issue. Otherwise I would have named the thread "earthquakes are increasing" which I did not. I named it "Do We Recognize God's Prophecies Being Fulfilled" It was meant to talk about more than just earthquakes. I had just been reading a book of quotes by Elder Cannon that I found of great interest, so I used some of what he said. The link I gave was just that a link. It was merely an example of how everyone is not in agreement about this. I was being asked to prove a point in which I was not trying to prove. I was merely showing that others had a difference of opinion in the way they chart the earthquakes. I really do not care if earthquakes are increasing, staying the same or lessening. That was not my point to begin with. My point as I have tried to say again and again is Earthquakes are a sign of the end times and are used to call man to repentance. The GAs have said this so if you disagree then you disagree with them not me. Regarding my meeting with the GAs, well go ahead and be stunned if you must. I have met with them. Shocking as it may seem to you. What you are implying is that I am lying, which is false. I am a researcher on a topic about which they asked me to meet with them for months. It was not science. It was about my research into social and spiritual movements of our times outside of Mormonism and the impact they were having and would have in the future. In these conversations the concept of calamities that do and will beset us was discussed. Yes I shared my data with the GAs per their request. This happens all the time in the church. I personally know several people that have met with them in regards to their areas of expertise. They do not just use hired staff. That idea is "nonsensical" as you like to say. In reality they talk to many experts in many different fields all the time. That is how the Church works, if you are unfamiliar with that I am sorry, but it does not make it less true. I wish man put as much faith in the Lord's Anointed as they do in men of science and fought as passionately for them. It is just as much a matter of unprovable faith to assume that scientists always tell the truth. Again I am not saying the USGS is lying or misleading, my point merely is who would you believe if it came to a difference between a Prophet saying that earthquakes are increasing and science saying they are not? Let me clarify we are not there yet, but what if? Which would you believe? I would believe the Prophet. Many scientists say their is no God, while others now are saying we are god and co-create the universe. Just because something is asserted by scientists, even by the majority of scientists does not make it so. I remember the days when we were being told the "fact" that we were headed into an Ice Age of disastrous proportions, now it is Global Warming. I do understand that those are theories and not exactly the same as collecting earthquake data, but it makes me question how much "faith" I should put in science. I put my faith first in the Prophet.

The core doctrines remain the same. There are policy changes and added revelation, clarifications and directions for specific generations but the core doctrines remain the same. If you do not agree that is fine, but this is my belief and it is consistent with standard LDS teaching. That is why I posted what the Church says is doctrine to try to clarify what the Church says is doctrine and not just my thoughts on the matter.

Snow this is my whole point that the Lord uses calamities to call people to repentance. All Prophets teach this as do the scriptures. Here are just some: Please stop your personal attacks and general nastiness. I did not come to this site to engage in mudslinging. You try to defame my character, my research, my Faith in Prophets and standard LDS teachings. I thought this was an LDS site that was friendly to LDS beliefs. I am now doubting this. I do not need to be mocked and ridiculed for my faith on a site that says it is LDS. If you do not believe in standard LDS teachings and scriptures that is your right, but please stop attacking me for my belief. I have tried to be polite and have not addressed you with rudeness. I am a convert to the LDS Church and have great respect for those of other faiths for my family is of many. I do not believe, however, in this kind of sarcastic bickering you keep levying at me. Please stop. I am more than happy to discuss topics, but not in this contentious way. Please confine your disagreements to the principles discussed and do not mock me personally. You keep eluding to my stupidity, alleged lack of education and dishonesty. I am far from any of those. I am a researcher and I have actually met with Prophets, Apostles and other GAs and shared my research with them upon their requests. I know where they stand on many issues including this one. Please stop this harassment.

Regarding the end is near: If you are LDS then the name of the Church should answer your question. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Therefore we live in the latter-days. If you are not then I can understand your feeling. Regarding Doctrines this is what they are and where they are found: Here is a list of Official Church Publications: Holy Bible Triple Combination MAGAZINES Ensign (for adults) New Era (for youth) Friend (for children) Liahona (international) Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual This manual contains 46 lessons for teaching adults and youth ages 14–17 in Sunday School Gospel Doctrine classes. New Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual New Testament Times at a Glance: PDF Chart Old Testament Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual Old Testament Times at a Glance: PDF Chart Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual (2008) Book of Mormon Times at a Glance: PDF Chart Book of Mormon: Class Member Study Guide Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual Doctrine and Covenants Times at a Glance: PDF Chart Doctrine and Covenants and Church History: Class Member Study Guide Our Heritage Teachings of Presidents of the Church Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff Teachings of Presidents of the Church: David O. McKay Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Heber J. Grant Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood, Part A Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood, Part B Gospel Principles Marriage and Family Relations Instructor's Manual Marriage and Family Relations Participant's Study Guide Preach My Gospel Teaching, No Greater Call The Latter-day Saint Woman, Part A The Latter-day Saint Woman, Part B Guidebooks and Other Information Basic Unit Program Guidebook Branch Guidebook Family Guidebook "Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings" Information for Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders on Curriculum Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders' Guidebook Teachings for Our Time Teaching Guidebook Annual Histories God Loveth His Children Youth Materials Resource Guides (2010), Aaronic Priesthood and Young Women Resource Guides (2009), Aaronic Priesthood and Young Women Aaronic Priesthood: Fulfilling Our Duty to God (Deacon) Aaronic Priesthood: Fulfilling Our Duty to God (Teacher) Aaronic Priesthood: Fulfilling Our Duty to God (Priest) For the Strength of Youth Guidebook for Parents and Leaders of Youth Seminary Student Study Guide - Book of Mormon Seminary Student Study Guide - Doctrine and Covenants Seminary Student Study Guide - New Testament Seminary Student Study Guide - Old Testament True to the Faith Young Women Personal Progress Young Women Camp Manual Children's Materials 2009 Outline and Sacrament Meeting Presentation Faith in God for Girls Faith in God for Boys Behold Your Little Ones: Nursery Manual Proclamations and Declarations The Family: A Proclamation to the World The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles

Hmmm again surprised by the hostility. You attempt to slander me and what I have to say by ridiculing me and charging me falsely? This shows me that you are not attempting a conversation but a fight. I will not be baited into arguments with you but I want to clear a false assertion that has been made. All Prophets today and in the past that have stated prophecies and scriptures are all correct. One cannot maintain that the old prophets are wrong while the new ones are right or vice versa etc. They all are right or they all are wrong. The Church is true and run by the mouthpieces of God or it is not. They all say the same doctrines of the Church, we may receive more clarification or they may word things more diplomatically at times, yet the doctrines are the same. It seems that you do not believe in the words of older prophets as you believe they are out of date. How out of date is the Book of Mormon then since it is far older and written by far more ancient Prophets? Yet we are told “In its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, [the Book of Mormon] is as current as the morning newspaper, and much more definitive,” said Gordon B. Hinckley

I have seen no change in what the Church says on these matter, it is consistent. You keep quoting what you do not believe. What is it that you do believe? When the scriptures and Prophets talk about God's wrath and list the judgments and signs what does that mean to you? What do you really believe? As I asked someone else what is your God like? What does your God mean by these things?

"When can a banana or an earthquake simply be a banana or an earthquake?" When there is no God that created them, that is called atheism. Those who do not want to believe God's hand in all things do not want to believe in God. What does your God really do? Who is the God you worship? What is He/She like? I am new here so I have no idea what you believe, but am interested in what kind of God you worship.

Seminarysnoozer I completely agree with your view. I love this song and video from Joseph King of Dreams: Videos » LDS Mormon Network For us to truly submit to Father in all things, sometimes that means we are in the dark and do not know all the whys of life. Having true Faith is being willing to trust in Father even when we are in the deepest tribulation and may even feel like he has abandoned us. He never does. We are here to be tested and purified and not merely to be blessed for our righteousness. We may feel we are doing all in our power to do the Lords will, yet find ourselves in great sorrow and suffering without knowing why. The whole purpose of life is to become willing to submit to Father, to be taught in whatever way Father deems necessary. We are to choose if we will but ask of Him and follow and endure to the end or not. The song sums this up by the lyrics “If I let you reach me, will you teach me? You know better than I, you know the way. I’ve let go the need to know why, I’ll take the answers you supply, you know better than I.” We are to do all we can to seek to understand but true obedience is completely submitting our will to Father in all things, even when we do not know the whys yet. It is having the Faith in Him that He knows better than us, for He always does.

Yes people need to repent even in the Church. Every conference says just that. It asks us to become better and turn to God more. ALL of us. To become a Zion people we have a long way to go.

Wow some hostility coming out. It feels to me you are after a fight, which I am not interested in. I am not trying to buffalo anyone here. I just shared a site that discussed it from the opposite perspective. I guess that is not allowed. My entire point is being ran off into the tangent of whether or not earthquakes are increasing that is not my point. My point is we are told they are a sign of the last days and we have been told they are evidence of the Lord's wrath and used for calling people to repentance. The church leaders have said that earthquakes seem to be increasing. If they feel they are then I will feel they seem to be also. I would rather stand with men of God than men of the world. I have personally witnessed scientific data played with to appear the way the researcher wants it to appear. Unfortunately not all science is as honest as one would like to think. I am not saying that is the case here. My point is that earthquakes and other disasters are told by the scriptures and Prophets to be a means the Lord uses to call people to repentance. That is my point. Not the increase or decrease of disasters. Though prophets have said they are on the rise that is not the point I am trying to make. As Elder Cannon said I have to say that what I am seeing on this thread makes me lean to the above statement from Elder Cannon more than the science. It appears man thinks they know more than God. Yes it is the Lord's will if one is killed in an earthquake pregnant or not. Our lives are His not our own. We are here to decide if we will submit our will to Him or not. As Elder Maxwell so beautifully said:

Do you believe in God? Do you believe in the Scriptures? Do you believe in Prophets? I am quite confused by your responses. It seems very much like an atheist would respond. I would truly like to understand where you are coming from. I am not one to just throw out it is "all a mystery" but I am one that will state things are the Lord's will even if we do not understand them. I can see clearly why the Lord allow good people to die with the wicked. It is no mystery to me. It seems to be a mystery and issue for you. My life I have consecrated to the Lord to do with as He pleases, for I know it is His regardless of my submission to His will, but I freely summit to Him.

There is different information out there on the topic of earthquakes increasing. Here is one sight that says they are. EARTHQUAKE : FREQUENCY : TRENDS : Have earthquakes increased : Record of major earthquakes on earth since middle 19th century, including 20th century and 21st century... and the "End Times" prediction The point I am making is not completely the concept that earthquakes are increasing though there are quite a few people that believe this. My point is that the Lord has told us through the Scriptures and living Prophets that earthquakes are used for His wrath. Either we believe the scriptures and Prophets or we do not. I choose to believe both. We cannot pick and choose what we are willing to believe when the Lord has clearly stated His position on a matter. He uses earthquakes and other disasters to call men to repentance. It is our choice to repent or not.

Because true facts come from God not man.

God is not unjust. We do not know all the reasons of why certain things that apper to us as unfair are truly good and God's will. We are clearly warned that if we do not follow His commandments we will receive of His wrath. It is said it is to call us to repentance. Earthquakes are one of the things stated in the scripture as one of the ways God calls man to repentance. We must remember the salvation of a soul is far greater than the salvation of ones temporal life. What is our temporal life worth if we lost our eternal life? We have example after example of the Lord pouring out His wrath upon the world. It is done with love for higher purposes that we do not always understand. Death is nothing to fear if one is repentant. The Lord allows martyrdom also of the faithful of God. One could say that is cruel and that He should spare them. Many martyrs have willingly sacrificed their lives for their belief in God. http://http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=b02d56627ab94210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD Will good people be caught in these judgments? Yes sadly some will, but all things are known to the Lord and done by His great wisdom and will. If I am killed in one of the exercises of God's wrath upon the wicked but I am righteous, then all is well. I do not fear death. I know my days are numbered unto the Lord and I will live exactly the length of time that He wills me to. I will happily work on this side of the veil or the other side of the veil for His Kingdom, it mattereth not to me.

Thanks for bringing more into this thread. My intent is not just to discuss earthquakes but all the things we have been warned of yet seem to disregard. If I can ask, what are you referring to when you speak of "Stuff like that being foretold"? Are you referring to the fact that all that will not take arms up against their neighbors must flee to Zion or is it something else? I am not familiar with a law that says one must have a gun, but am very familiar with places that have outlawed owning a gun.

That is really neat! :) I find him to be very articulate and direct in stating the doctrines of the Church. I love reading conference reports and writings from all the GAs from all eras of Church history. I have found so many wonderful insights and answers to questions. So many things we wonder about have already been addressed. We only need look for the answer. I am a researcher and have found that the Lord has not left us in the dark on our questions but has revealed much through His mouthpieces. When I have any question on a topic I research all I can to find out what has been said on the topic. I take a Prophets or GA's words to heart and have found them to be an incredible resource for understanding all areas of inquiry including questions about the last-days.

I would like to point out that yes what you call the "greatest generation" were walking away from God. They were becoming puffed up in the arm of flesh. They were turning away from God and trusting in man and man's mighty strength. It was the industrial age, the age of man's brilliance and man's worship of himself. Which was called by our Church Leaders a wicked and adulterous generation. Moreover vast numbers of people were turning away from the true God becoming atheist and embracing the devils counterfeit religion "spiritualism". Many writings of the Church at the turn of the century clearly state these things. So yes it was an act of God for God's hand is in all things. We are shown throughout the Book of Mormon and the other scriptures this pattern. When man gets puffed up in pride destruction of various kinds fall upon man to call him to repentance. It is best that we are not compelled to be humble but humble ourselves willingly without needing God's wrath to do so. We have once again turned away from God, so why should we expect anything less?