ConquestT4

Ok. Point taken. I understand and I agree but I'm not about to be engaged. We have been dating for hardly 2 months. We are extremely close and marriage is definitely in the back of my mind but its too soon for me to make any decisions. We have talked about it a bit. Well really we just made sure that we weren't doing anything that was tempting one another and we made it clear where we both stand on the matter. I mean that we both have made the firm decision to wait till marriage. We clarified that with each other and it wasn't awkward at all. I think we are both pretty mature about it.

I love Third Eye Blind. I don't really feel those songs are really really sad but they do have some sad overtones. All of those are GREAT songs! Their self-titled album is golden!

Also!..... Happy Birthday - Flipsyde Emotionless - Good Charlotte Crap.... what were the others I was going to put????? Gosh!

This is easy Dashboard - Modest Mouse Float on - Modest Mouse Work it out - Jurassic 5 3R's - Jack Johnson Coney Island - Death Cab for Cutie

I want to make it clear that I willfully and purposefully stopped the habit a month before college started. I was busy before college but it was more like busy doing leisure activities and working a part time job. Low stress. If your talking about addressing the issue of temptation then yes... I think you're right. I do need to somehow find time. I guess I need to find out WHAT and then squeeze in the WHEN. Since college and being super busy I have not succumbed even once to the temptation (to masturbate or view porn...porn just doesn't seem to be an issue now). I have much to improve and I know I must learn to really control my thoughts and passions. I think that will be the key for me to control my problem....or addiction....or issue.... whatever it is. This SIN. I am 1 month or so into college so that makes a total of 2 months. However, college IS making me stressed, sometimes angry, TIRED for sure, hungry YES,...... I'm frustrated with some classes, learning new things, tests, my friends being far away, my girlfriend being far away...its all taking its toll. I guess I'll just have to suck it up and live with it.... It really sucks not being able to think of an easy solution. I really thought I could "enjoy" college this semester... not that its all bad. Just the fun/relief usually only comes when I put off whats "important." I really don't think sex will be an awkward subject. At least I don't feel it will for me. I think that's a good thing. I plan on marrying someone that I'm close enough to that it wont be. Heck... if it was appropriate I wouldn't have a problem talking about it with my girlfriend. It wouldn't be that weird....but I wont. I guess I can imagine that sex will maybe be a lot different than what I thought it would be for these past...ummm....11 years. I know I'll have a lot to learn. Whatever... I can accept that. THERE! I guess I do have something to look forward to. I had just been feeling like all I ever hear about it from members is the problems associated with it. I understand that members aren't going to openly talk about their sex lives and describe it how the world flaunts it but oh well.... where am I going with this........ lastly... I don't think I have money for a therapist. That would just be awkward to me. I have no desire to be a part of an addiction recovery group. Maybe that's my pride but I'm doing well now and I don't plan on doing any worse ever. I just can't let my gaurd down. --------------------------------------------------------- While I am here and while I kinda have your attention since most of you are all senior members with plenty of experience on this forum can I ask 2 questions? These things have just kinda been bothering me lately. My boss (a fairly lds illiterate ex mormon of many many years) asked me a doctrinal question. He knows I am lds and respects that but he and his wife were talking and he told her that mormons in the past had banned birth control. Sometime in the 80's I think. His wife disagreed and so he asked me if birth control is allowed. I was pretty sure about my response and I answered yes without really hesitating. I told him mormons CAN use birth control (not referring to surgery here). I didn't think much of it but I decided to look it up and I found some conflicting results. Quotes from general authorities, prophets, posts from members all over the web, etc. How could birth control NOT be allowed??????? What is said in True to the faith makes me feel like it IS allowed but it is still unclear and that bothers me. I understand that avoiding having children completely is strongly discouraged and I understand the concept of revelation and how it applies to choosing how many children a couple should have. Two.... kind of a strong question but I am curious and I want a complete answer so that I don't have to think about it anymore. Is oral sex within marriage a sinful behavior/ sex perversion? I always thought it would be ok as long as it is ok with both partners and its not something forced or unbalanced if that makes sense. Obviously one should not physically harm their partner while doing this. It seems similar to kissing. In marriage you are obviously "allowed" to kiss more than your spouses' lips...... I had a missionary companion (an odd one) tell me it was not allowed nor are any sex positions....ok... now obviously there are some places that male genitalia SHOULD NOT GO! That is clear to me. But define sexual perversions. To me that refers to things like what I just mentioned, role playing, binding, sex toys maybe.... I really don't know for sure. What about mutual masturbation? I want to know and I don't want to have to think/wonder about these things. Thanks to all! You don't know how much it means. I can't beleive you would actually take the time to read all this and formulate these responses. I do appreciate it. This is kinda becoming "my outlet.":lol:

Mad World- Gary Jules (don't pay attention to the video) This song takes me over. I don't always cry but its powerful to me. What Sarah Said- Death Cab for Cutie One of my favorite songs ever Hurt(Nine Inch Nails Cover)-Jonny Cash (I thin this version is so much better) It almost made me cry when it came on the radio and I heard it for the first time. I was in a good mood then it made me sad. A good sad maybe. Kinda. YouTube - The World At Large - Modest Mouse (HQ) High Quality The World At Large-Modest Mouse It just has a sad tone. The song itself isn't toooooo sad. Just a good song to listen to when your sad or just really calm. Probably my favorite song in the world Some other good ones are perfect - simple plan where'd you go - Fort Minor wonderful - everclear Broken - Seether Ft. Amy Lee The freshmen - the verve pipe adams song - blink 182 against all odd - the postal service trouble - coldplay the scientist - coldplay

I agree here. Calling myself an addict is harsh. Too harsh for me. However, I do beleive that it IS dangerous to do the opposite and think that Satan can't tempt me. Its more like, "I can decide who I am! I am doing what is right and I will be protected and made strong enough to face temptation!" I think we must all respect the power of temptation. Especially sexual temptation. Being myself up? That thought just makes me hurt and I don't think that would be helping me. At the same time I realize sorrow for sin is essential and recognizing that temporary gratification is NOT worth the pain and remorse. You are right. Strangely enough even thought the pain is great it is easy to forget exactly how one feels. Maybe my mind tries to block it out. I cannot sing a hymn. That doesn't work for me though I know it does for some. I KNOW that as long as I am positive I can fight it. When I am in a good mood temptation seems to have little affect on me. Its the stress, tiredness, depression, loneliness, sadness, boredom, etc that makes it hard. School I guess I just have to deal with. At least it keeps me busy so I don't have time to sit around get bored and have to find out how to entertain myself. I'm very prone to stress though. It runs in the family.

First of all... thanks. These replies are helping me at least see things from other peoples' perspective. Please explain this. I may see your point but what do you mean "looks like? Arent we NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW. Wouldn't it be wrong to imagine it? We can't watch it (thats pornography). Wouldn't that be wrong too? I don't think there is any way to understand until marriage. The church already says things like "its a sacred thing." I don't know if that is how we are supposed to understand what it is supposed to be like. Does it matter? Should fathers educate their sons on how it goes down? I don't know?? I have NO problem with myself being a sexual being. There are just so many taboos associated with sex and sexual behaviour....growing up etc. The world around us....Its always there trying to be a part of your life from the outside world into your life and from inside your body and into your life... if that makes sense. I know part of is what God intends because we have to choose and we have to bridle our passions. "Master ourselves" I know this that's good. I just feel like... I feel like... I don't WANT to be tempted. I don't WANT to have to deal with that but I do. Lots do. Maybe EVERYONE does. Uhhhh....yes? I think...What are you referring to here? Wet dreams? Yeah... they are normal. I don't have a problem with that. They don't make me feel guilty. What is healthy curiosity? I'm not sure I understand that part nor sinful ruminations. Maybe I do. I don't beat myself up. I can't take that. I can forgive myself I think. Just... the whole experience has been mind numbing. Desensitizing. Sometimes I felt so much guilt I had to find a way to accept my situation and at times I wrongfully decided to accept it "too much" maybe. I made myself live with it. I tried to NOT feel guilty which made it seem more ok to fall but I never wanted to give up trying to repent. Not once did I think I would never change. Most of that makes sense and I think your right. It sucks. "The product is shame" Well isn't that the truth!!! I just have a hard time evaluating what I think of myself and how much blame I give to myself, how I should feel, etc. Its just... I never saw myself falling into this sin. Its just not me. I didn't think I could be that "kind of person."

First off sorry for the grammatical errors. I now see that what I posted may not be AS clear as I wanted it to be. I was tired. Reading over all of this kinda gives me a weird perspective on the whole situation and it is all together uncomfortable and definitely embarrassing. My intentions are not to seek replies like "wow, I've never heard of a bishop doing that!" or "I don't think thats right." I will accept my situation and I stated it more to express frustration for my situation for which I must take responsibility. Its really hard for me but I am trying to face it. I'm not afraid to admit that I had or have an addiction. I think it would be worse to understate a problem. On my mission I don't think it was an addiction but at times before and times after I think I allowed it to be an addiction. I honestly don't feel that RIGHT NOW it is an addiction in my life. However, I can say that it is a big temptation at times. Its just spiritually draining to feel alone and have to deal with a temptation so strong that just wont go away. I feel drained right now. It is most prone to happening when I stay up late at night. Mainly when I am tired. There is usually something that triggers a pattern of thoughts whether it be an ad, a girl, a movie, a thought, etc. (I am not talking about porn here). I guess I feel I have a bigger problem with controlling my thoughts then I do with the self gratification. I know they go hand in hand but when I can control my thoughts and not think sexually I have no problem with resisting. Its when those thoughts are present and one is aroused that the desire to gratify those thoughts is present. Porn is not a problem right now. I have had no close calls in 2 months. I have no desire to seek it. I don't want viruses and most of all I don't want the spiritual disease. However, I still have to learn to master my mind and fight the thoughts. Fight my imagination. An imagination my body begs me to stimulate. I don't want to give up but I don't know what I even have to look forward to. I've been told things like you will deal with this temptation forever (bishop), 30% of married couples participate in masturbation/pornography (bishop), just because your married doesn't mean it will go away (bishop).... how am I going to even enjoy life? Its just weird for me because I feel like I'm more right now I am more committed than I ever had been. I don't think to myself... "well maybe I'll slip up tonight..." I was feeling good about my life and what I have been doing. I finally felt like I was changing. I felt my character changing. I feel like a better person. I have had a real positive attitude toward almost everything and now with the stress of school, homework, being busy, being away from my girlfriend, all my friends that were here are married, gone, or both life is just hard. I don't know how to explain it. I feel like nothing good I do is really paying off. No achievement is recognized. I'm just having a hard time. I feel so far from those I care about and so far from their support. Its not that support from others is absent but I don't feel like it has lifted any burden from me. Really I think what helped me stay motivated the most (strange or not) was my girlfriend. She doesn't know but we formed a really good relationship in a short amount of time and we are really close. Now we are still really "close" but 1500 miles away and the stress and friction of recent days has made her seem even further away. It would do wonders if she knew how much I needed her comfort and if I could just BE next to her. I don't know why I am even saying so much... I guess I don't care if anyone reads it I just need to think. I haven't had time to think all day. I want to go to sleep now but I have about an hour and half of homework to do. I need a smaller slice of life right now but I accidentally ordered a $20 meal and the chef wants to shove it down my throat. I don't feel like I'm going to fall, in fact in my frustration and sadness an anger towards Satan and failure has been stirred. I'm mad and I just want it to be over yet everything seems to say, "even once your forgiven it will never be over." When do I get to enjoy life? It seems like its all stress. All of the above. Stressed, bored, anxious maybe... and being at the peak, yes. Well I guess so. I'm 22 right now. And that's the thing... I have no release right now. I want to go to the gym but I am physically, mentally, and spiritually exhausted. I am away from everything I enjoy. I have no car, no bike, no atv, no time for the gym... no access to what I normally enjoy. Music is probably my only outlet but lately I don't feel like enjoying it. I just want to think I guess. Thanks to all for your time and concern. I didn't think I would feel as strange as I do about this thread. Oh well... I just don't know what I need right now. To wait? Friends? A hobby?

First of all a brief introduction would seem fitting. I've was born into the church and acquired my own strong testimony at about 13 or 14. I have been surfing these forums for a while and I have been impressed at the comments and wisdom that some people have. I post now because I am seeking answers and I am going through a repentance process. Heres my story: I didn't really have any problems with the law of chastity until at age 18 when by "accident" I slipped into the sin of masturbation. I was in my bed adjacent to my best friend and roommate's bed when it happened. I say that it happened by accident because even though I had the bad habit of entertaining impure thoughts I had no conscious intentions of defiling myself. I let my mind wander to far and though I was not moving my hand it was where it should not have been. My thoughts were intense enough and the presence of my hand was enough to trigger an ejaculation. Honestly when it happened it totaly took me by the surprise. It was the first time I was ever conscious during one and as soon as it was over I had think for a second about what had happened. I was shocked as I thought about it and immediately I began to feel guilt and concern. The next day I woke up thinking about what happened and the thought was just killing me. I was surprised by the intensity of emotions I felt yet I was sure I would never do it again. The thought of having to discuss it with my bishop greatly frightened me. That was just not......me. Long story short I fell several time to temptation only receiving temporary gratification followed by misery and regret. I lost control and started to become a bit depressed. I couldn't stop. It wasn't happening very frequently but I was going crazy struggling with the issue. I thought I could just quit and make it go away. I did stop for a while. A month maybe. Then I would fall. Then slowly degrading material slipped into my life through the internet. I still couldn't control my thoughts and I started seeking a little more stimulation. I started to give up and give in to the sin. I thought..."while Im here I might as well explore..." I would be fine for a week or two then I would fall. It was a cycle. I was about 19 then and I was preparing for a mission. I knew I was going to go. As awful as it sounds looking back on it I got my call and entered the temple. I had quit for a month or so and convinced myself I could stop for good. I was good for a few months but early in my mission I had one or two occurrences when I slipped. I couldn't take it any more so I talked to my mission president in my first interview. I was soooo scared I would get sent home but I convinced myself the guilt was worse. I was thrilled when I found out that I wouldn't be sent home and I was good for about 3 months or so then I slipped up again! I was shocked at what I was doing. It didn't make any sense yet I knew I had to take responsibility. Long story short I fought it off and on my entire mission (it really only happened maybe 8 or 9 times total in 2 years but I knew that it was still an abominable sin). By the end of my mission I thought I had conquered it and had high hopes. I got my recommend back. I came home and about a month later I had fallen again. I did not slip back into porn but I was so discouraged and succumbed to my addiction. I got myself to talk to my bishop and he helped me a ton. I fought off the sin again, I was partaking of the sacrament, I went to the temple again, etc. My bishop was impressed at how quickly I changed and I thought I had for good. I was so determined and once again I could feel happy and more confident. Yet once again I slipped. That time it really got me down and I couldn't get myself to tell my bishop I had fallen AGAIN! I started viewing some light pornography (in about 3 occurrences). I once again prepared to talk to the bishop but this time I would be talking to the bishop of my student ward. I had AGAIN fought off the habit for about a month and a half. I confessed my repeated sin and expressed my true desire to change. He seemed pretty upset with me but he told me I could be clean again and we set that goal. I was in good spirits and motivated. He said I could partake of the sacrament and he said that I could go to the temple if I felt ok with that. He let me accept my calling and they told me I would be sustained next Sunday. I was happy. I didn't go to the temple but Sunday I did partake of the sacrament. However, I was not sustained and when I asked the bishop why my name was not called he took me aside and looked at me and said that we were going to wait till this issue had passed. I was a bit surprised but I was ok with it. (my bishop at my home ward let me have a calling anyways...about a week after I had had an issue) This was two Sundays ago. I'm now 22 and its been about 2 months. Today was strange though. I didn't have any issues this past week but today I met with the bishop so we could talk about my progress. I told him I had not done anything and we had a normal meeting. At the end he was about to let me go but concerned I asked him again like I did when I confessed. "Can I still partake of the Sacrament?" "Can I go to the temple?" and I asked him when I would be able to accept my calling. He told me it would be best if I DID NOT partake of the Sacrament this next Sunday and that I shouldn't go to the temple yet (he didn't ask for my recommend though). The opposite of what he had told me the last time when I confessed. He said that they had already assigned the calling to someone else because they just needed to get it done... I left the interview discouraged and sad but still very determined to resolve the issue. Im just frustrated that I had been NOT partaking of the Sacrament (for me its a big deal and it makes me uptight knowing that my roommates are there watching) but I did it anyways. I didn't partake. I confessed, he said I could partake, last Sunday I partook, and now I am not going to partake this Sunday because my bishop told me not to. With my other bishop he let me start partaking again after about 2 weeks of not having an issue. Its now been 2 months for me and yet I find myself here. I am committed and determined and want it gone once and for all. I am dating a wonderful girl and trying to do what is right. I read, I pray, serve, say my prayers, treat others well, etc. So here I am now. A bit wiser but still kinda confused at what just happened. I regret repeating the sin and my goal is sincere repentance. My regards to anyone who has struggled with the issue. I feel your pain and if you are struggling I encourage you to never give up. Feel free to PM me. I've learned a lot. Now whether or not you read this all thanks anyways. I just needed to get this out and journalize it. However I do hope for your opinions, comments, support, advice, etc. ps. I'm not trying to say the bishop is wrong. I'm just surprised and confused. I think its weird to not take the sacrament one Sunday, take it another Sunday, and NOT take it again the next. I'm self conscious and Ill do it but its weird knowing my roommates/other members will be noticing.

Do you feel like you are struggling with maintaining faith in God? Faith that He is there, that He loves you and that He wants to help you. All will be for your good. I promise you will see that if you only endure and work to continue strengthening your faith. God loves you. He loves you enough to let you suffer when you make mistakes. Ive suffered for my fair share of mistakes. I think all of us know what its like to feel lost and abandoned. Alone.... But the faith necesary to get out of that hole is shown through daily scripture study, concious rightous decisions, work, sincere prayer, loving others and loving ourself. Above all loving God and a having a strong desire to serve Him. Something that has struck me recently is that ingratitude is maybe a much stronger sin than we think. We know it and have heard it but the Lord loves us so much. I dont always understand that or how.... its not in our nature to think that way. But as we feel the "peace that passes all understanding" it become clear. Spiritual knowledge. Dont give up. Dont blame the world. Accept the worlds inperfections. Accept your imperfections and your mistakes. We are here to mold ourselves and work out those imperfections. They are your obsticals in your life. Your test. God wants you to succeed and has given you the tools, talents and resources to accomplish His will. The fact that you posted this shows that you dont want to be in this situation. You desire to be better. That is the Spirit working in you. Take responsibility and take control of the situation. Great blessings await. Arent you anxious to find out what they are?

I completely back this statement. I couldnt have said it any better. I have learned that waiting is a decision that is often dangerous in the sense that it gives the adversary more time to tempt us or make us doubt. Im not saying that bad things will happen but when the Spirit testifies and we go from wondering to knowing and feeling that we need to get baptized we then KNOW that is what got wants us to do. We learn that through prayer, pondering and listening to the Spirit. I would suggest that you do what you can to involve your mother and any other friends or family. That is a great idea and im sure the missionaries will work with you. No one can make the decision for you. You have to decide when and they will make sure you are ready. Dont be afraid to pray about it and ask God. I know he will help you figure it out. Like it was stated before, the most important thing isnt your mother seeing your baptism though that is a wonderful thing. What is maybe even more important is the change she will see in you. And of course if it turns out that she cant attend your baptism there is the confirmation, the ordinance of receiving the Aaronic Priesthood, etc. If you have more questions about these things feel free to ask either us or the missionaries. Good luck!

Right. I totally understand that and never doubted that but where is the line. Its hard to tell just because you cant define it. There is a lot of passion you can put into a kiss if you wanted. Making out could be considered just kissing for a long time but to others its more like trying to eat someone. How does the church expect us to react because I see it as a good thing if its not done out of pure lust and just to do it. If you feel strongly for someone kissing is a way to express that. I see it that way at least. Now when it starts to be something more sexual like super passionate kissing with touching and almost petting then I guess I would consider that wrong. I dont know. Im sure almost everyone sees it differently

I dont mean to hijack this thread and funny enough this is my first post I think. I have had some trouble getting my account going but have been on here just reading topics for about a month. Whats funny is lately I had been thinking about the same thing and I wanted to ask about it on here to get opinions because despite what for the strength of youth says it is a grey area for many I believe. In response to the original poster. Doesnt "head in chest" seem more like petting and less like making out? I guess everyone had kinda a different idea of what making out is and what it does or can involve. But.........I have the same question. A little background. I had a girlfriend at age 16 and we slowly got closer and closer. She pushed the physical stuff more than I did but in one or two instances we were what I considered to be too close to the edge. Doing something that I had NEVER planned on doing. I would just decribe it as sensual "kissing"/"making out" (NOT in the horizontal position) but I think its safe to say we were arousing each other (no petting by the way). Afterwards I thought about it a lot and felt that I shouldnt be doing it. I was about 17 at that point. It just ate at me a lot and we eventually broke up for unrelated reasons. I felt the need to talk to my bishop, one, to clarify, and two....I just felt guilty. I wanted to know if I had broken the law of chastity or if it was normal. I had always heard about young couples making out all the time growing up and had always wondered (and still to this day). Long story short I talked to my bishop and it obviously wasnt a big deal that I confessed it. I think I saw him smirk once or twice. He basically said (though I dont remember it that well) that if it was something I felt I shoudlnt be doing then I shouldnt do it. Listen to the Spirit I guess. And I know its not good to try and arouse feelings. I was wrong there for sure. So I kinda decided that it (kissing more than a peck) wasnt a forbidden thing but it was maybe discouraged because of what it could lead to. I decided to avoid it which ended up being easy without a girlfriend and while I served a full time mission. While on my mission I heard tons of storys and tons of talk of making out, where, with who, how great it is, how much they missed it, how many times, how often, with X amount of girls, etc etc. I was kinda surprised that so many had done it and were so casual about it. I definitely dont think it should be just a casual thing as that seems more like lust to me. All of this confuses me. Now I find myself as an RM with a wonderful girlfriend who I have only kissed respectfully (we have been together almost a month).....and I dont know what to think about "making out." Im obviously more mature now and would never want to make the same mistake twice but I would be lying if I said it was something I didnt feel like I wanted to do....if that makes sense. All in all....is this statement appropriate? It is ok to kiss as long as it is not done with the intentions of arousing either person, not done habitually or out of pure lust but as a way to show affection. Im talking about a guy and a girl lets say hugging and kissing for 15 minutes (just as an example) not aggressively and not petting. I mean... I wouldnt do that in front of my parents....any sort of kiss could be a little awkward but WOULD THAT BE WRONG??? Sorry for the long post!