TheActualLiz

The prayer over food thing is something where I am perhaps a little confused... maybe you guys could help me out... 1. Sometimes I just say the prayer I learned in Catholic school... if I forget to pray at all before I start eating some small part of me goes "eep!"... strange, probably... wrong, probably not... 2. I find myself more compelled to pray when there is meat involved... like I wronged the animal and/or want that spirit to know that it is/was respected... I still eat meat but that feeling makes me eat less of it for sure... I hope God knows I am trying to do less harm... 3. Recently financial issues have made me become more aware of and grateful for food... not sure why it takes something like this for me to really think about the gratitude part... maybe I am just more spoiled then I want to admit... 4. I have absolutely prayed for protection against food poisoning... then proceed to consume the questionable item... this is probably ethically questionable in some of the situations I have been in... and probably less ethically questionable in other situations... not sure where to draw the line on this one... 5. With friends and family of all faiths the blessing issue can get awkward... I think a good rule of thumb on this one is to respect the tradition of the host... then again there is always the rare exception where I am just not sure what to do... Thanks for listening to me ramble. Any suggestions or observations would be appreciated.

That's a good start so... props! Yup. I will say that the types of prayers I say/think are not always within the traditional LDS format... I am pretty sure Heavenly Father still hears me though. Those are all great examples of things to ask forgiveness for... especially since the Lord looks on the heart. Mental stains are great to get rid of... if your heart and mind are unified in good thoughts and desires then you will suffer much less in this life... can't speak on the next life, that's Christ's job. Personally, I don't. I actually use a rosary sometimes (Buddhist style... 108 beads and no cross) and find it to be helpful. When I say or think something 108 times I may be repeating myself a lot but I don't think those are vain repetitions since the meaning of what I am saying will change over the course of the prayer.... "We pray for peace" might mean that I want the war to end the first few times, then I am want to join with all others who are praying for world peace later, then I realize how much I want peace in the home, how peace in the home starts with me, how I can think about things differently to become a more peaceful person, and finally how I can help spread that peace to others. In this type of prayer the words (and the rosary) are just tools to get my mind to slow down and hush up long enough for God to have a chance to create a large change in my heart... it's a "listening" type of prayer rather than a "talking" type of prayer (which I am also a big fan of). Rarely... I don't do a lot of the formalities you are "supposed" to do... sometimes I just pause for a moment and close my eyes... or stop what I am working on at the PC and put my hands over my face... or grab my beads and chant while I walk or lay down or am in a social situation. There are times I kneel but it is usually when I am overwhelmed and cannot stand up or when I am in a formal setting where kneeling is the norm. It all depends. You are doing the best you can... we all have difficulty at times... that's part of why I ignore all the "rules" so often... I don't want a "prayer template" to postpone or stop me from talking to Heavenly Father. I will say there is a good guideline for reasons to pray that I personally like: 1. Because you feel like praying... 2. Because you don't feel like praying... 3. Because it is time to eat! Best wishes, Liz C.

It must be very difficult for them to have to move so far away from their homes and seek refuge in a radically different culture. Learning the bus system in my own town was difficult and intimidating for me... I can't even imagine how it would be in their situation.... Do you think any members would be willing to help them learn the bus system and go with them the first several times to help them feel more comfortable not only going to church but getting around town as well?

Thank you for your reply. I was not trying to hunt out a political thread (at least I don't think so) but the video you posted was good. Creepy and terrifying, but good. I especially appreciate the scriptural references for "refusing the king's meat". I don't know why but those verses had not been coming to my head lately. It has been far too long since I really studied the scriptures and I am glad to have help now that I am getting back into it. I think you are right about setting a good example and creating a place of peace. I especially like the second part of that statement... become a place of peace... I think that is what I was missing. So few have ever experienced true Christlike love... I think I can try to focus on that in my meditation and practice. Thanks again for the advice. :)

Interesting discussion. Anything (book, movie, toy, etc) that gives you that dark creepy "ick" feeling should be avoided. Personally I do not care if it is something as harmless as carpet lint... if it creates that feeling it is not welcome in my home. That being said... to each his or her own... so just use good judgment. Never watched "The Passion" b/c I found the whole thing to be very offensive on a number of levels. Don't think it is a good idea to try to "rules lawyer" over what movies, games and books you get involved with. Its far better to follow the Holy Ghost (especially if you are following Him out of the room). As far as the effect of all input from the media... I recently posted a link to a neurologist who proved that there was physiological change caused by things we watch. He applied this knowledge as a method of treating the phantom pain experienced by those who have lost limbs and it seems to be effective. If this concept is true and independently verified by science then it is probably a good idea to avoid watching things that promote values you disagree with. Personally, I cannot watch a lot of the stuff that is out there for medical reasons. If you, personally, find something traumatic then it is best to either avoid it or make an appointment with a psychiatrist and a psychologist to discuss the issue.

Here we have this sad story of a revolution among the Laminites where a corrupt man gets into power using very deceptive methods. It seems like the Laminites had some ethically difficult decisions to make during this time and I was curious about some of the choices different groups of them made. 1. In verses 2 and 3 we have the kind being stirred up to get involved in an unjust war against the Nephites. Many of the Laminites refuse to join the military so the king starts a draft and several Laminites leave while others join the military. Which group did the right thing? Could it be that both or neither of the groups were right? 2. Amalickiah's plan to overthrow the Lamanite government succeeds and he becomes king through breaking a number of laws. We know that this sometimes happens in modern revolutions and even within elections and succession disputes among established nations. When citizens believe this to be the case what is the best thing for them to do? 3. In verse 36 we have the Nephites who had followed Amalickiah doing a bit of extra sinning, even more so than the Lamanites. It seems to be a rather common pattern for those who fall way from any spiritual path to go through a rebound phase of rebellion which is pretty dramatic. Is there anything that can be done to lessen or shorten this rebound effect or help people turn back around to living better lives? How can we help those who have been burned by the many examples of corrupt Christian churches we see in modern times?

I am sorry Pam. ::hugs::

I am very sorry for the loss of your mother in law. Both of us have lost people we cared very deeply about as a result of alcohol and drug abuse. I do not believe that sharing "war stories" about the things we each have seen is the most productive use of our time but I do believe that we have more in common than I initially realized. I understand that working nights in an inner city ER must have left you a little battle scarred. We both know exactly how painful and sad addiction and withdraw can be. It's not easy to watch anybody collapse on a table and start shaking and bleeding and foaming at the mouth. It's terrifying when you see someone talking to people who are not there while they have no control over their bodily functions knowing that person could die and/or harm others in the process. Since you have extensive experience with people who are detoxing, I would love to hear your opinion on the merits of the taper off method as opposed to switching to a similar but less addictive drug like Valium or Methadone. Unfortunately some people still do not have the luxury of a choice when it comes to making this decision, but it would be nice to hear about the comparative efficacy of the two treatment options. I realize that I have absolutely no right to judge you or anybody else for the coping mechanisms developed under significant stress. You have very good reasons for wanting to protect your step son from the horrors that usually come with drug use. I believe in the power of the scriptures and I think it is good to meditate on the words of Christ. Matthew 25:31-41 is an excellent passage for those who work in difficult fields such as medicine and law enforcement. I wish you and your family the best, Liz C.

Pam, I would like to join the study group. It seems like there could be a lot of good, solid discussion here. Past the general forum rules, and only moderators starting threads are there any other points of conduct that I should know about? Liz

Sorry about this coming late but I wanted to sleep on it to collect my thoughts. There are a couple statements here that I feel the need to address. MOE: I agree with the vast majority of what you are saying here and definitely agree with the general point that you seem to be trying to get across. There is one part where I strongly disagree and would like to know about the church's position on this is. Giving out condoms is a great thing (at least from a secular pragmatic view). My personal advice would be to buy one large package of each brand and type and wrap each package in shiny paper with a great big bow and a "from mom with love" sticker. While were at it I would also suggest a note encouraging him to pass them out to all his friends who are sexually active. I think that religious people are a little hesitant to do this because of the fear of condoning or encouraging promiscuous behavior. I do not believe this to be the case. A whole fishbowl full of condoms (especially ones from mommy) would not be the thing that encourages sex... hormones do a great job of that on their own. I am extremely vocal about this issue because the cost benefit analysis is just so +EV that I want to scream. Kids will be kids and people of all ages do dumb stuff they need to repent of once they realize they were wrong. We cannot change the actions of others but we can do a little damage control. Condoms reduce the chance that an unwanted pregnancy and a potential abortion decision will occur. I really wish that more pro-life people realized this.... making birth control hard to get is encouraging abortion and therefore morally questionable at best. Encouraging compassionate birth control (both for married couples and for people living sinful lifestyles) is a large part of protecting children and maintaining family values. Condoms also reduce the chance of contracting the many terrible diseases out there. Educating people about safe sex is just as important as educating them about washing their hands after using the restroom and covering their mouth when coughing. We need to get over the awkwardness and stigmas and start talking openly about disease prevention. Zapp: It is your money so spend it however you wish. I do want to say that I personally find this statement to be a little offensive though and would like to explain why. Full blown alcoholics do not drink to have a good time, relax, or get high. The bum on the street who is desperate enough to ask you for a dollar to buy a beer is doing so because the beer will stop the shaking, hallucinations, and diarrhea. Alcohol detox is not just painful and sad... its a serious medical problem that needs proper supervision from a doctor because it is potentially fatal. You also mentioned "crack heads" and feel the need to address this issue as everything I said about alcoholics and more. I will not try to guess how many people you know who are addicted to crack but I will say that the people I have known who got into that stuff suffered terribly. This particular drug not only robs users of their health, wealth, and dignity... it takes away the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong. Furthermore even one single use can be enough to cause full blown chemical addiction and the withdraw from that is hideous to watch. I want to be extra clear that I am not suggesting that anybody enable or financially support addiction. What I am advocating is compassion for those who are suffering, avoiding self righteous "I'm better than you" thinking, and supporting rehab and detox programs that are accessible to the poor.

Dress up as your favorite Book of Mormon character costume contest? It is the season for costume parties after all. Most board games can be converted to scripture based games: -Jeoparady -Cranium -Skattegories You could also try something outside the box like modernize a scripture story, wright your own parable, re-write a passage as a rap contest. Kinda standard ideas but its the first thing that comes to mind.

Zapp, I am sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having with your stepson. In your OP you asked to hear from someone who has been there, done that, and made it back alive. I've been to all the parties, done all the drugs, drank all the booze, and made lots of ill gotten money. Here are some things that brought me back: 1. Unconditional Love: This is the single most important thing you could possibly give your son. If your son understands that you do and will continue to love him, regardless of his choices, regardless of how bad he has messed up... he will not fall for all the fake love that is offered by the drug community... and even if he does, he will eventually figure out the difference. 2. Unconditional Acceptance: This is the only way you can hope to have an honest relationship with your child through all this. I am not talking about becoming an enabler here... I am talking about accepting your child even though he has fallen and looking at him through the eyes of love, not the eyes of judgment or fear. If he knows he can always tell mom anything then he will be less likely to fall into deception, hiding, lying, etc. If he can really be honest with you, even when it makes you sad, then he will eventually come to you for help. 3. Accurate Information: If he is about to experiment with life gonzo style then it would help if he got some unbiased information. Understanding the reality of STDs, learning how to use contraceptives, getting some of the new vaccinations that can prevent some serious illnesses such as hepatitis and cervical cancer (OK... that last one is for his future partners) can help reduce the damage he will inflict on himself and others. Same with learning about the various substances he is likely to try. In my time it was alcohol, weed, MDMA, Adderall, and Xanax that made the top 5 abused substances.... at least around the people I knew (Oxycotten and Meth were up there too). All of these are bad, but no two carry the same risk/reward. Weed is illegal and there is a risk of jail time but there is not a risk of fatal overdose (assuming it has not been spiked). Alcohol is legal but it is addictive (especially if alcoholism runs in his family) and dangerous. MDMA and Meth are serious drugs even when you get them in their pure and correctly made form... the problem is that many times these are manufactured in suboptimal ways and that can have serious additional consequences added on to the risks that "should" be associated with use. Adderall, Xanax and Oxycotten will at least be manufactured correctly and might even be legal if he does a little doctor shopping but that still does not make them safe. All of them are addictive, potentially fatal, and the withdraw is miserable and dangerous. 4. Forgiveness: This is extremely important since it is what we all hope for ourselves and those we care about. The repentance process is hard enough... there is no need to make it even harder. You cannot push a sinner into repenting but you can welcome him home will the open loving arms of a mother who really forgives and faith in a Savior who really forgives. That's about all I got for now... but it is a good start. Best wishes for you and your family, Liz

That sounds like quite an event. Is this like a family reunion or ward activity or something? It would help to know a little about the dynamics of the group and the specific situation that inspired the event. Do those in attendance have some unifying aspect or are there many sub-groups attending?

Atlas Shrugged: so many of my libertarian friends venerate this book as a brilliant work of philosophy. HOGWASH! i can give the book credit for creating a vivid dystopia and some cleaver use of propaganda.... but John Galt's speech made my hears want to bleed (audiobook on this one if that still counts)... seriously... an hour and a half of "a=a" and "reality is real' UUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!! A Light in August: supposed to be a great book with cleaver literary style.... hated every second of it.

Pam, My heart goes out to you and your family. My grandmother had Alzheimer's and it was beyond sad. My mother was very involved with the Alzheimer's association in Jax, FL for a number of years and she said that help. It's really good to have a support network that understands what caring for someone with this illness involves. I don't know how advanced your father's case is but there might be some things that can at least ease his pain. I am not sure how many of these you are already doing/tried but I would like to get another opinion on what works. One study that my mom ran across was that reading scriptures every day helps (this is from some scientific journal not a religious one). The study was done on a group of nuns who were deeply involved in daily scripture study and discussion. In this group there was a significantly lower instance of the illness and those who had it suffered fewer symptoms. The theory is that the intellectual activity helped counteract the neurological destruction and that new neurons were growing in to help with the cognitive work load. IF this is true then a number of reasonable therapies could be applied such as... -classical music -educational activities -games -reinforcing existing memories -healthy diet rich in Omega 3 and low in other animal fats -taking care of a pet -taking care of a garden -getting 20 min of full spectrum sunlight every day -uplifting spiritual messages he is comfortable with -social activities (church, dances, travel groups, social clubs, etc) I know you are doing everything you can (you would not be posting research studies on here if you were not very active in this) and it is a long and difficult road. The list I posted is a mesh of things we tried with my grandmother, things my grandfather is doing to recover from strokes and maintain high quality of life as long as possible, my mother's research, and my research. If there is anything you could add or give a perspective on it would be great. Zippy, I am happy to hear your mother in law is eating again :). I don't think those are small things at all! In fact they are pretty huge and very encouraging!!! I would love to hear more about your research and what has been helping with your mother in law and how her progress is going. It sounds like something is going very right here and I would love to hear more about it. :) ::big hugs:: to Pam and Zippy! Please keep talking about your experiences! It is hard to give end of life care to a family member and it is good to know you are not alone. I will be praying for both of your families. Liz