lds2

***Germany is the financial rock on the EU shore so this is very bad news. ***The bigger worry are the big investment banks (please read the derivative primer in post one) including Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley as they are expected to have their ratings downgraded soon by three notches which would increase funding costs and would require them to keep more collateral making it harder for them to keep the derivative "plates in the air all at the same time." "Moody’s downgraded the ratings of seven German banks as well as Austria’s three largest lenders, saying the euro area debt crisis risked leading to new losses the banks might struggle to cover..." Moody's cuts German bank ratings on fears of "limited" ability to deal with new losses - Telegraph

***Marc Faber's economic newsletter is called Boom, Gloom and Doom. He is widely followed since 1987 when he warned his clients to cash out right before "Black Monday." He says.... “I think we could have a global recession either in Q4 or early 2013." When asked what were the odds, Faber replied, "100%." However, in the near term Faber also sees potential for a market rally. Faber said the bullish catalyst would be Greece exiting the EU.

The HSBC Flash Purchasing Managers Index, slipped to 48.7 in May from 49.3 in April. That marks the seventh straight month that the index has been below 50, a level which indicates economic activity is contracting.

Again, I hope you will accept my apology as my intent was to warn others of what I was seeing in the news yesterday, and help and encourage those who have not yet prepared for adversity, certainly not to insult you or others here.

I can understand confusion as I changed direction with my thoughts several times in this part of my initial post. I hope this is a double dip recession but it is possible for something more severe as President Hinckley mentioned a depression twice in his talk about a "portent of stormy weather" ahead saying that he hopes there won't be one...but... I believe this is a time of abundance where there are few shortages, but prices are high for processed foods yet still cheap for the basics. I have no idea when calamities will strike that could cause a disruption of my life or yours, many are seeing weather related calamities in their areas, when a similar or a different calamity might strike my area or yours is anybody's guess. I have no idea whether there will be a continued slide downward of the economy or whether an event will cause a sudden change. There even could be one or more upward trends (like before the election) but I believe that the overall direction is South. There is much talk on the economic forums of a "Black Swan Event" what and if that will happen I have no idea but there is much talk of the possibility right now.

I am truly sorry to those that I have offended...my post below was in response to "I have little patience for fear mongering" and "panic tends to contribute to financial collapse more than just about anything else." There tends to be sort of a "Secret" type belief among some that the bearer of bad news is the cause of it...as they believe positive thoughts attract positive things and negative thoughts attract negative. So my intent below was to point out that ignoring bad things does not keep them from happening. That the judgements promised for the wicked when THEY become ripe in their iniquity cannot be turned away by ignoring warnings. That many modern day "Gadiantons" who's purpose it is to gain power at others expense are out there. And that if you have done what you can to prepare then you have no need to fear but you do have an obligation to help your neighbors also become self-reliant. MY POST WAS NOT TO OFFEND MY FRIENDS HERE OR TO LIKEN THEM IN ANY WAY TO THE FOOLISH PEOPLE IN THE BOM. Just to point out that posting bad news doesn't constitute fearmongering and that people pointing out today's news on a small web site to their friends does not cause it, contribute to it and/or make it worse. ***

What a loving post, thanks! We are commanded to "watch with all perseverence" and I am, as much as possible for myself and to help my friends and neighbors to be prepared for possible rough spots ahead and for the fulfillment of Latter-day prophecies...but also I try to remind myself as well as others of the glorious things that we are watching for too. I can't wait for the time when all will be healthy, parents can let their children play outside unsupervised, when all will have gainful employment, when our leaders are righteous and eventually our leader will be Jesus Christ himself!!! Such days are in at least some of our futures, woo hoo! I want that for my children and grandchildren at least if not for myself on the Earth. Someone else posted the link to this quote today which may help others understand part of why I watch for these things...my own personal belief is that these things will come much sooner than most I know believe. President Joseph Fielding Smith observed: “So I pray every day of my life that the Lord will hasten His work; and while all this has to take place, I hope He will hasten it, that it may soon come to an end, that peace may come; and so I repeat, as I said in one of the talks some time ago, I am praying for the end of the world because I want a better world. I want the coming of Christ. I want the reign of peace. I want the time to come when every man can live in peace and in the spirit of faith, humility and prayer.” (Signs of the Times, pp. 154–55, 175.)

If you feel worried after (to the best of your circumstances) gathering a three month supply of foods you eat, water, a financial reserve (perhaps a bit of which is not in the bank in case there is a banking holiday) and a longer term food supply of foods (so that in case of adversity you can help your extended family, neighbors, and the bishop feed the poor and the needy) you might ask in prayer if there is something else that is needful to prepare or something further that the Lord wants you to do as you should be feeling peace regarding your preparations for the last days. Perhaps if you still feel uneasy you are to help your friends or neighbors prepare the best they can...at least that is what the First Presidency has asked us to do once we have become self-reliant.

For better or for worse I show that love through trying to help others. I guess it is the "mother" in me that warns and reminds when I see the possibility of suffering that could be prevented. Sometimes that is appreciated and sometimes it is not...at all! The other day some of my family went to spend an afternoon on the lake, as they were going out the door I reminded them to take water with them to drink as it was very hot...and sunscreen. One resented it and said I was being controlling, the other was glad that I reminded him and went to get those things to take with him. As it turned out the items were needed and both were glad to have the water and sun protection. Had it been cloudy and cold the resentful son would have further resented the inconvenience of storing those items because of another "false alarm."

No I am in no way a prophet and would not mean to put myself in that category. I'm pretty sure I said that was my speculation, and the opinion I expressed was that we could see the second dip of this recession within the next year... :)

Going back to another analogy, I believe that toilet water started moving very slowly in 2008 and has been moving so slowly that many could deny that the water was moving at all. Many continue to say that the water isn't actually moving or that it isn't moving downward...it is just going in a circle the same as we have seen in the past. But the longer things go, the faster the water moves and the harder it is to deny that things are headed South. President Hinckley warned in 1998 that he was concerned about a portent of stormy weather ahead. "I hope we will never experience another depression, but..." There is a Portent of Stormy Weather Ahead - Gordon B. Hinckley - October 1998 General Conference - YouTube

President Benson testified that, "secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing." ( Source: “I Testify”, General Conference, October 1988 )

Can you hear the Nephites saying it is those fearmongers that say we have to follow the prophets or be destroyed off this land that cause wars to happen with the Lamanites. If we just stay calm and peaceful they will leave us alone. We don't have to follow the counsel of the prophets to be safe, we just have to keep going on like things will always continue the way they always have and nothing will change. Also we know that there are no Gadianton's who would seek our downfall for their personal gain, people who would believe in such conspiracy theories are wackos. People who warn of such things just want to scare me and are not welcome. The prophets (and those who believe the prophets) in the meantime are crying out and mourning for their people because they know of the consequences that will fall upon the people if they choose to ignore the prophet's words indefinitely. Those who could follow God's counsel but chose not to were described as being "hard hearted" and "slow to listen." Of course ignoring the prophet's counsel always ended in catastrophe for the people...eventually. I am not a prophet but I believe their words. In the June 2011 Ensign the First Presidency told us, "to become more self-reliant and to help people help themselves" and "To provide in the Lord’s way, we must develop our own self-reliance and then seek to help others become self-reliant." .

I'm glad you posted...perhaps I will try tomatoes again next year with a larger container (mine are 4 gallon used fruit juice containers) and a heavier soil, I used vemiculite, perlite, wood chip based compost and peat moss, with rabbit compost added to the mix for mine.

I know this is not really fun to hear, yet I feel an obligation to my friends to post what I see...as the swirl of the toilet water is rapidly speeding up for an ultimate flush of our monetary system...I believe it will start in the EU but it won't be long after that we are just as effected. G7 to hold emergency eurozone talks Tuesday OTTAWA • The deteriorating state of Europe’s debt crisis has renewed a sense of urgency among global leaders, as markets around the world continue to recoil from the threat of a financial contagion. ‘There’s a heightened sense of alarm over developments in Europe, particularly in Spain’ Group of Seven finance ministers and central bankers were to hold talks early Tuesday morning, with concerns growing that the capital-stretched financial system in Spain — the latest casualty in the region — could buckle, possibly causing a run on banks that could spread through Europe and beyond... G7 to hold emergency eurozone talks Tuesday as concerns over Spain grow | Economy | News | Financial Post *** Global slump alert as world money contracts Growth of the world money supply has dropped to the lowest level since the financial crisis of 2008-2009, heralding a severe economic slowdown later this year unless authorities rapidly take action. Global slump alert as world money contracts - Telegraph *** US Factory Orders Post Surprise Fall in April New orders for U.S. factory goods fell in April for the third time in four months as demand slipped for everything from cars and machinery to computers, the latest worrisome sign for the economic recovery. News Headlines *** Notice that the articles above are not coming from Jon Doe's Survival blog... These thiings are concerning, but the thing that will ultimately take the whole house of cards down are derivatives...the following is kind of a primer on what the "big boys" have done and serously and unfortunately there is just not enough money or assets in the world to cover all the leveraged derivative bets that are "out there." Some say that all the world's government debt is 70 Trillion and while there is no exact count it is believed that there may well be more than 700 Trillion dollars created through leveraging the worlds debt. No government or bank in the world could cover that should things start breaking down further. Short Rough Primer on Leveraging and Derivatives, By: Hugh Sunday September 28, 2008 12:06 pm Leveraging means something like this. You sell $10 million in stock. You use this money as the basis to take out a loan so you can buy $100 million in mortgages. Now say you issue mortgage backed securities based on these and sell them. Now you have a $100 million in cash so you go out and buy more mortgages only this time you use your $100 million to buy a billion dollars of them. You have just leveraged your initial $10 million 100 times. This works if you, your banks, and the buyers of your paper are all sufficiently greedy. Why would banks loan you $100 million on $10 million collateral? The short answer is they wouldn’t for you or me, but they would and did to financial companies because of the fees and interest they made off of such transactions and because they “knew” those companies were good for it. This was all much easier to believe on the upside of the bubble because the value of the underlying assets (houses) kept going up. So even if a few percent of the mortgages defaulted, a) the house’s value is greater than at the start and you can sell it again and b) the overall value of the mortgage package on which all this was based kept going up as well. Banks were also making money in fees from writing loans and the companies they were loaning money to were precisely the ones who were buying these mortgages off them so that the banks could make more money in fees writing yet more mortgages... A short rough primer on leveraging and derivatives | MyFDL *** Sorry guys, this is not a tin-hat moment as much as everyone would like their lives to go on as they have for the past generation or two. I believe we are about (within a month to a year) to slide into the second dip of this double dip recession or what some even have called a depression. While prices are rising rapidly for processed foods, there has been little demand for the bulk grains and beans that we are asked to store for adversity and so prices are still relatively low. I believe, if it can be done, that things will be propped up at least until after the election so now is a very good time, a time of abundance for most of us, to tuck money and food stores away for a rainy day. If you wait for adversity or until the writing is on the wall for all to see, such food stores could be very expensive to get and there could be shortages as well. Buying food farther ahead than most (like three months with a basic supply of longer-term grains) during a time of plenty when much is wasted and thrown away is not hoarding, it is being prudent!...as who knows if an earthquake, disease or other calamity could effect the ability of "just in time" trucks to get to any one local...perhaps yours.

I tried this last year and learned don't try tomatoes in containers as they require too much water unless you have the "automatic" barrel feed thing worked out. This year I am growing green beans, carrots, lettuce, strawberries and so far so good.

I'm thinking we might agree with what you are saying about Frequently Asked Questions, but when I reread it I don't see any information where the counsel doesn't coincide or complement the counsel from the pamphlet. So which counsel are you talking about specifically? Providentliving.com isn't a horrible resource, their calculator just doesn't reflect the new guidelines given by the First Presidency and is often confused by the LDS Church's site. But I think you meant providentliving.org? It is so confusing to have the .com look like it could be an LDS Church site...at least at first glance. When it comes to providentliving.org it is both a great resource and the closest we can come to further counsel from the brethren. While I am sure it is done by a committee and not the First Presidency, so not all they recommend should be considered scripture, they are a lot closer to the brethren than say the sister you talk to when you call the cannery. So I take what they say with a lot fewer grains of salt than other sources. I'm pretty sure that they would have asked the brethren to make sure they are right before stating that the pamphlet supersedes prior instruction given to the Church as that is a pretty definitive and important statement for those trying to figure out what is the new counsel. I think for the past number of years the temporal stewardship has been more under the direction of the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric. This is probably just my opinion, but I think the reason we hear so little about temporal preparedness at general conference from the apostles and other general authorities (besides the Presiding Bishopric) is that this is not really part of their main stewardship right now. Not saying it can't be, just that it doesn't seem to be lately. As the prior Presiding Bishopric was just released I am interested in seeing if the new takes us in any new directions in preparing the Church for hard times and/or adversity. JMHO FWIW.

There is still much confusion on what we should be storing in our homes for "adversity." In my ward we have heard 3 months only and 2 years worth of foods over the pulpit. Last month our Stake Food Storage Leader gave us the handout for the 2002 list of foods to store for a "year supply" believing it was the current recommendations from the Church. Unfortunately, all of these brothers and sisters are confused. The new recommendations are found in the pamphlet, "All is Safely Gathered In" which contains a "Message from the First Presidency" to the whole Church (which was sent out to ALL members by the First Presidency through their Bishops and was followed up six months later again as an insert in the Ensign.) This is the first paragraph of this message... “Our Heavenly Father created this beautiful earth, with all its abundance, for our benefit and use. His purpose is to provide for our needs as we walk in faith and obedience. He has lovingly commanded us to ‘prepare every needful thing’ so that, should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors and support bishops as they care for others." Many believe this does not supersede the previous list of foods given. But on Providentliving.org, in their frequently asked questions section is says... Does the information outlined in the pamphlet supersede all previous counsel? Yes. https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/04008_eng.pdf?lang=eng (Go to Page 2) To me it seems that we are asked to live a "higher law" as there is no longer a list but we have been given the responsibility and choices of what and how much to store. We must seek the Spirit to know (beyond three months of foods we normally eat) how much food to store so that "should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors and support bishops as they care for others." Does this make it harder to store what we need for adversity? That was not the intention of the new changes... "Why was the pamphlet produced? To teach the simple principles of home storage and encourage participation. It offers hope by showing that it is possible for most Church members to prepare for adversity, starting modestly by storing a few items of food, filling a few leak-proof containers with water, and saving a few coins each week. The pamphlet helps eliminate the perceived complexity of home storage." Providentliving.org Frequently Asked Questions... https://www.lds.org/family/family-well-being/home-storage/frequently-asked-questions?lang=eng#3 Best wishes in the gathering of your abundance safely in for your family, your neighbors and to help the bishop feed the poor and the needy through the "perilous times" we are told that we are living in. Char

Again, that it is language that most hold very sacred and it is unusual to see one referring to himself in such a way it is a big red flag. No, but your right it is certainly a red flag to be very careful. You have to "watch with all perseverance" and study these things out for yourself. That is why I have all the disclaimers on this thread and on most of my others pertaining to my studies unless I am quoting the general authorities. That is also why I mostly try to stay with modern day prophets quotes regarding these things when discussing these things myself, not a scripture and then my interpretation of it. Your three posts were one-liners so lets all call our kettles black :)...His posts are very hard to understand and very long. Without editing I don't believe most would read much (and before you say it, I know I can get long-winded at times myself......you don't like me very much, I just say that because you seem to follow me around with one (or more) liners a lot) I don't know pnktl at all either...so by their fruits ye shall know them and I guess we will...(see I can speak scripturese in a mysterious way too. ) Okay...perhaps I am coming across more contentious than I intend...sorry about that. Between a new puppy and my other farm work (i.e. a mountain lion attacked four of our animals last night) I haven't been getting enough sleep...off to work in the future garden... .

That language is (in my opinion) the most sacred in the bible. When it was used He (notice the big H here) was saying who He was. For someone else to use such in referring to themselves is another red flag. I have seen a lot of people come and go on forums and those who speak in scriptural language are almost always apostate or close to it...not saying this is the case here, just another red flag. A man's teachings mingled with scripture is also another red flag...that is why I mostly try to stick with the words of our recent prophets when talking of doctrine. .

Why would I be fearful of the Lord's return? I can't wait, and I would LOVE for my grandchildren to be raised in the Millennium when they could play outside without fear. All will have useful work and there will be no "entitlements" or poor among us. What is to fear about that? Perfect health, living to be as old as trees and remain vigorous...yep, yep. We have been comanded once we are self-reliant to help others become self-reliant. I believe there is a reason why preparing for calamities has been told us for well over 70 years. I want all my brothers and sisters to have what they need now and in the future. This is a huge red flag...who among us would speak of the prophet that way? We are all given immortality, to be saved as children of God is one of the greatest gifts Christ gave us through His sacrifice. Who are these immortals that speak out knowing the Son even more than Joseph Smith? The only people that would apply to are the three Nephites and John the revelator and I haven't heard them speaking to us lately and it is not their calling to "speak to the Church." Who's covetous? We are commanded to "watch with all perseverance" which Elder Bednar repeated over and over in his talks around 2010. I believe that Christ was talking of himself when he was a man, I totally believe that He now knows the whole plan for the Second Coming as He is part of the Godhead. Your final quote talks of Thomas S. Monson...again those who are believers do not write his name with such disrespect. FWIW

You say, "I AM that I AM" when referring to yourself and then say "This also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working." Those are some strong words...when referring to yourself and your words. Okay, back to my genealogy...

Like I said...

I believe you may have returned to Church but which one is the question..why do you write in Greek, that isn't usually normal for LDS members. When were you baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and did you attend an LDS ward last Sunday? I don't think so from what you have written and the contention you bring to every thread. Sorry, but what you say and how you say it is not that of a first language speaker. That doesn't mean we don't have millions of speakers of other languages, just what you say isn't at all typical and seems very unlikely for someone born and raised in the LDS Church in Provo...just sayin...and some of the ways you say things would not be typical of an LDS member of 5+ years...or even one.

There is difference between "seeking for signs" and watching for fulfillment of prophecy. We are commanded to watch, Jesus told us to study Isaiah in some of his last words of instruction when he was on the Earth. Elder Bednar has said on several occasions that we should be "watching with all perseverence" here are two of the talks I was able to find... "Who's On the Lord's Side", BYU-I Education Week Address, July 30, 2010 Elder Bednar "The Lord has on the earth some potential spiritual giants whom He saved for some six thousand years to help bear off the Kingdom triumphantly, and the devil is trying to put them to sleep. The [adversary] knows that he probably won’t be too successful in getting them to commit many great and malignant sins of commission. So he puts them into a deep sleep...And what good is a sleepy, neutralized, lukewarm giant." ... For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, spiritual warnings lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning." And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be...“watching … with all perseverance." As we watch and prepare, truly we have no need to fear."... *** "Watching With All Perseverance", April 2010 General Conference Elder Bednar "Spiritual warnings should lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning” (D&C 63:58). And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be...“watching … with all perseverance” (Ephesians 6:18)." Watching with All Perseverance - general-conference everance+(name%3a"David+A.+Bednar") Elder Bednar also gave this warning (I've been told) while giving talks in regional conferences...Elder Bednar is referencing the same quote that President Monson used this last conference and originated with President Benson's addresses given in 1979 and repeated in 1987.