lds2

Great discussion. It's interesting that so much truth can be said on both sides of one. I can see gold and silver having value after a major downturn for a time, But if you had a thousand or two dollars I would strongly encourage y'all to get what the Prophets have warned us to have safely stored in our homes. Forty years ago we had manufacturing, home gardens and orchards in back yards, and many had the skills to grow, prepare, sew, weld, and fix things themselves. Now we are highly dependent on disposable products (buy a new one when it breaks) that last a short time before they need to be replaced. These products are brought in over great distances from around the world. If something were to happen such as a severe gas shortage because of middle-east tensions, or other calamity effecting transportation, we would be looking at living on what we have locally and in todays deliver it only when it is needed society there wouldn't be much in our cities to go around. If you have the basics, I think having a lot of small change in silver and gold is more useful because how would you pay for bread, milk or meat with a quarter ounce of gold if something happened to the dollar? That's just my opinion though...FWIW

Thank you for sharing your recent experiences Dove. I wish you the very best in gathering what your family will need in the future. If you need any advice just ask in the preparedness area and we will do our very best to help you get what you need the cheapest/quickest way possible. Your friend, Char

Not reading where it says he is an "economist" it just says he is an "expert" and to me I would have to say he is that when it comes to money or at least making it... but I wouldn't trust him to have my best interests at heart as I don't think he is a "people person" if you know what I mean... However, as the governments of the world continue to spend money that they are creating out of thin air that is a concern as eventually ponzi type things invaribly collapse when they get too big to feed from the bottom...

Someone on another thread inferred that those who store food are "hoarders", sadly from my experience LDS members with such thoughts are increasing...so here are my thoughts... A great LDS boy after his mission follows the First Presidency's counsel to have a financial reserve and starts an account where he puts money every week of his life...now he is an old man with a million or more dollars in his account...he is considered wise by the world and held in great esteem. However, he also follows the counsel of the First Presidency and stores food...a can or a bit of food extra every week for many years until he has 3 months worth of canned/boxed/frozen foods that his now large family eats and enough longer-term storage to keep his family alive for a year (in a concentration camp ration kind of way.) Instead of esteeming him, people walking into his large storage room think "what a hoarder" and think he is some crazy guy on the "fringe" of society who should be on tv. What if the young man put his million in his mattress or safe in his home instead of trusting it to the bank or 401K? again he is considered unwise or even crazy... So...now...think of the term "home storage." It is November 1st and no crops will be harvested until next July. The food you are going to eat between now and then mostly has been harvested and now rests in a silo or warehouse in the Midwest. Many, many millions of tons of excess foods have been sold and exported to other countries throughout the world. Fortunately for you, most of the food you are going to eat during November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June and July is now squirreled safely away for your future needs by others. Oh no...now instead of letting others store that food for you, you buy it at discounted prices at the "caselot sale" and you store the food you will eat during November, December and January in your basement. Storing it at home instead of having others store it for you now puts you firmly in the crazy, selfish or even "evil" hoarder category. However, if you let the big conglomerates store your food for you, then process it and sell it to you for ten or more times what it cost them...and you buy it a can at a time each week at full price...then are you a concientous, unselfish, wise and good world citizen. We have been counseled for the last 70+ years to put away food and it has overall been a time of extreme abundance for us...so much so that most of us have never been hungry accept by choice. Saying that someone is "hoarding" food during this time is like saying someone is "hoarding" money by putting it in a savings account, as there has been no food scarcity and much has been wasted or "waisted." So this is my concern for my friends here...that food stored for you in the silos and warehouses in other cities or states is likely not going to do you a hill of beans worth of good in the event of a widespread disaster or calamity, plague, inflationary/deflationary event, gas shortage or famine...and the Church has already said that you can't expect to look to them as they won't be able to provide during such a calamity. The government has no reserves and couldn't help one city (New Orleans) ... do you really expect them to come through for you? I sincerely believe that is why the First Presidency specifically told us of the commandment from Heavenly Father to prepare...“Our Heavenly Father created this beautiful earth, with all its abundance, for our benefit and use. His purpose is to provide for our needs as we walk in faith and obedience. He has lovingly commanded us to ‘prepare every needful thing’ (see D&C 109:8) so that, should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors and support bishops as they care for others. https://www.lds.org/family/family-well-being/home-storage?lang=eng To "hoard" means to put away something for later use...like a squirrel hoards nuts for the winter. All of our food is "hoarded" by either ourselves or by others for us, and all of our money is "hoarded" again by ourselves or by others for us. So why is "hoarding" bad when you store away your own reserve and "hoarding" good when others store your reserve for you? Please consider who benefits from such language... Your friend, Char .

...:)

I guess I need to think about what causes price increases a little more. Like if the price of Pringles goes up because of increased gas prices...that price increase could be because the price of delivery cost more, or the price could increase at the store because there aren't as many trucks willing to deliver Pringles and so there is more demand. Hmmm... These arguments regarding how two people saying something doesn't make it so even if they are famous, and word definitions are so lame! :) Just teasing because here I go... Okay, so that being said...you can't hoard in a time of plenty...it is impossible! And right now we are still in a time of plenty so even if you bought 100 cases of food it would not be hoarding. If you knew 100% that we are going to see a financial meltdown or that there was going to be a famine this year...then that would be hoarding. But since we are still speculating about these things and there is no shortage of food, or gold, or dollars, it is just storing some investments away at home for a rainy day.

"Billionaire Donald Trump says the U.S. economy is poised for “massive inflation” and is warning investors to take steps now to protect themselves. In the gripping CNBC interview, Trump also told investors they should not trust official government statistics. He even questioned the “official unemployment” numbers. “It’s over 20 percent. It’s not 8.3 percent,” Trump said. Trump also thinks skyrocketing oil prices will cripple the U.S. economy. "... But Trump isn’t the only expert warning the U.S. economy may go off the cliff. Robert Wiedemer, author of the New York Times best-selling book Aftershock, stated in a recent interview, “The data is clear, 50% unemployment, a 90% stock market drop, and 100% annual inflation . . . starting in 2012.” ... This wasn’t the first time Wiedemer’s predictions hit a nerve. In 2006, he and his team of economists accurately predicted the four-bubble meltdown in the housing, stock, private debt, and consumer-spending markets that almost sank America. Regardless of his warnings and survival advice, Bernanke and Greenspan were not about to support Wiedemer publicly, nor were the mainstream media. The question Americans need to ask themselves is this: Even if half of Trump and Wiedemer’s predictions come true, ARE YOU PREPARED? ... Massive Inflation Coming Warns Donald Trump

It is almost time for General Conference! I love listening to the prophets! Can't wait!!!

Tongue firmly in cheek and with all that said...here is another "prediction." "But the real news on quakes came in an email from 2012 research Patrick Geryl (author not scientist) who says the linkage between planetary alignments and solar flares may have been cracked ...He believes that, " Large solar storms are induced by 2 or more planets heliocentrically aligned with the Sun." For instance take the 4-7 March date First Mars and Earth line up with the Sun Then Mercurius and Venus X5.4 Flare on 3/7/2012 @ 00:24 UTC – Sunspot 1429 We give here the dates that we expect solar events, due to planetary alignments: March 21st 2012 April 22nd 2012 May 25th June 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th June 25th till 27th 2012 July 29th August 12th 2012 August 22nd till 28th 2012 September 21st 2012 October 3rd 2012 October 14th till 22nd 2012 November 13th 2012 December 3rd 2012 Let’s look at the planetary alignments of December 16-17 2012, Jupiter, Earth, Venus in a line… (not with the Sun) Venus, Mars and Neptunus in a line (not with the Sun) And on 18-19 December… Saturn, Venus, Mercury ,Sun in a line..." Patrick Geryl's site...

Also, you have to understand that my father was very high up in the red cross in San Francisco when I was a girl. He/We were always preparing for "the big one" that we expected sometime in the early 1980's. So after a while you build up your own amount of denial that "the big one" will happen. At the same time, you know LOGICALLY that at some time, probably within your lifetime, it WILL happen. Despite some healthy denial, I have enough of my dad in me to be CERT trained and have a year supply...and do all I can to help my neighbors prepare for "the big one" too.

You would think so but truthfully my life is pretty much a big "gospel hobby" between my callings, last days studies, genealogy, learning essential skills, mentoring people at DI, etc. But I think genealogy and family history help me to keep a more upbeat outlook as these kinds of things happened to my grandparents and greatgrandparents and they survived, even flourished...eventually. My ancestors faced "interesting times." My grandfather's hotel was demolished as a result of the great San Francisco earthquake. My other grandparents stood homeless (after putting $600 down on a $1000 home a few months before) on a corner during the depression with a dime trying to decide if they would buy milk for the baby (my mother) or bread. Can you imagine my well-to-do great-great-great grandparents that lived in a town giving that up as well as their carefully saved money (saved for the wagons to get the two invalids as well as their large family across the plains) and being asked to give it all up to help others and push a handcart across the plains as part of the Willey handcart company...so they could live in a desert and work to grow enough food for a large family? I won't tell of my life's challenges here, but just say that I know that devastating things can happen to good people and that living the gospel is no insurance against calamities in one's life. You would think that all this stuff would "bum" me out, but really it just lights a fire under me to help as many friends as I can to obey the commandment from Heavenly Father to prepare for hard times...because they always come either individually or collectively and we have been warned that calamities will increase in the future... The First Presidency told us in June that if we are self-reliant we should help others become self-reliant. Part of that is to understand that calamities will come and to prepare for them. Best wishes through your life challenges my friends. .

The answer is that we are seeing BOTH. Recent news from the government says we are seeing inflation in many of the "essentials" and deflation in many of the "non-essential" indexes. But that isn't really surprising as "we" and many other countries of the world continue to spend "pretend" money and live on debt. A bigger concern to me about what could effect prices and inflation is all the "wierding" going on all over...including weird seasons, weird earthquakes, weird solar flares, really weird abnormally non-stop hot and cold weather patterns, weird gas price increases, the middle-east continuing weirdness, etc. I believe we are in for "interesting times" in the traditional Chinese saying sense...and while the Church has said that they will do what they can...we should NOT plan on them being able to help us in a widespread downturn or calamity. Here is the recent news from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics... "Indexes for shelter...medical care, and household operations all advanced, while indexes for apparel, recreation...all declined." (From the Consumer Price Index Summary) We all know what is happening at the grocery store with size and quality of grocery items going down while the prices go up. At the gas stations each week we get less gas for the same cost as the week before... In inflationary times it is best to have assets in your possession rather than money in the bank. So here is my "financial advice"...get assets in your possession of say around 300 pounds of grains and beans per person for your family for longer-term storage, and all the canned goods you can store/afford to last at least 3 months. Heavenly Father has promised blessings to those that keep His commandments and "having every needful thing" IS a commandment and having food at home and a financial reserve were two of the things the First Presidency talked about when they told us Heavenly Father has lovingly commanded us to prepare. I hope that all of you who can, will prepare for some "interesting" times ahead. Best wishes my friends through our personal and collective "interesting times" .

Sorry guys but the time to prepare is quickly coming to a close as just getting the "essentials" could take every penny we can scrape together in the future. Recent news from the government says we are already seeing inflation in the "essentials" and deflation in the "non-essentials." This trend will only increase as we continue to live as a country on money that we don't have. Add to that the possibility of war (in the middle-east), and wierdness all over including weird earthquakes, wierd solar flares, really weird abnormally hot and cold weather that affect growing seasons, seriously...we could be in for an "interesting" ride... Recent news from the government... "Indexes for shelter...medical care, and household...operations all advanced, while indexes for apparel, recreation...all declined." Consumer Price Index Summary (From the statistical arm of the government...

I have to agree with Pam... The big concern for me are the people that continue to believe that since we have lived in peace and abundance for most of our lives, that our lifestyle will continue as it always has...at least until our grandchildren's time when it all goes up in a big fireball, at least for them if they are wicked. I don't believe that is how "the end of the world as we have known it" will come about for us though. Just like the DVD is just the guys (very interesting to me) opinion of a financial collapse this year, it is my opinion that the downward trend in the economy will continue if not accelerate in the future. I believe the day when many/most of us can't afford to buy what we want or even truly need could be not that so far distant...and the Church has already told us that they can't provide for us all should there be a widespread calamity. There has been a not so widespread calamity for my family...the company my husband worked for was just sold. So we were just quoted the Cobra to keep our health insurance for our large family...$2,000 per month! That doesn't include the house payment, food, utilities, children's lessons and activities, etc...

. I just recently watched this talk on a video by Randy Hall I bought from E-bay. While I have watched a lot of scripturally based talks by Evangelical Christians, this is one of the few with such "pretty numbers" that comes from an LDS source incorporating Daniel, Revelations as well as BOM Isaiah, Joseph Smith History, etc. While he makes some big jumps at times to make things fit, particularly with his definitions of a "generation" it was very intere sting and I look forward to watching it again. Some things that stuck out in my mind are all the ways that "2012" works towards being the start of "The Day of the Lord". He believes that this will encompass a financial devastation that will take down the world as we have known it. It puts a whole new face on people looking and seeing it all come down in an hour (not his thinking, but mine) as I watched the video. While he thinks the coming in glory of the Lord won't be for many, many years (his best guess is ~2050-75 at the latest.) He does believe that the earlier comings could be as soon as 2017-2018 which is interesting because that has been my thinking for a while now. So I tend to agree with him. I think we will see the financial world devastated within the next year and the war of Armageddon to start in the next few years culminating with His saving the righteous Jews on the Mount of Olives in 2018. (Take that FWIW as I have been wrong before.) A few weeks ago a guy posted a few of his notes here... "Witnessing the Powerful and Great Changes Together": Randy Halls DVD "We Have Been Warned" On the Last Days Warnings If you read this he says that "the Day of the Lord" ends with Christ's return to the Mount of Olives and the devastating earthquake talked about in both the 6th and 7th seal times. He explains how/why the seals overlap. But just to make it as clear as mud, "the Day of the Lord" Bro. Hall says begins this year in 2012. .

There is some timewave and web-bot agreement regarding Friday the 10th which is kind of interesting... While we warily wait to see what the “game-changer” is that we’re supposed to see over the period between now and Friday, although with the usual +/- three days of error, my thinking is running increasingly toward a major bank failure and the start of economic collapse since as of 4:59 PM Friday we should be into more or less permanent release language, at least into summer of this year. Still we need to be clear: Release language is not necessarily correlated to declining markets... So we rely on luck and actually, I’ve been studying that quite closely for the past couple of weeks. Would, for example, an outbreak of financial panic be a lucky (as in good) thing? Well, given it as an alternative to a false flag attack on a US capital ship, escalation into a nuclear exchange with Russia and/or China, yes, you bet, I’d ,take meltdown and whatever else is behind curtain #1. UrbanSurvival | Replaying 1929 - Long Wave Economic news & AnalysisUrbanSurvival | Replaying 1929 – Long Wave Economic news & Analysis

So far so good...but the March 2nd prediction (that starts release language that we should all know about by the 19th) begins tomorrow...so I will be watching. I don't know whether anything will happen but they did get 911 right and a few others of their predictions. I like to use these dates to think if there was a _____ tomorrow what would I wish that I had in preparation today? So that is where my thoughts are today. My thoughts have ranged from light bulbs, TP, gas and propane, oil (you can never have enough of that as most people don't store it), etc. Wish I had the money to get completely out of debt...

Robert Prechter, author of Conquer the Crash, is still bearish. He says today's economy has similarities to the Great Depression and warns that 1930s-style deflation is still poised to cause financial havoc. Prechter predicts that the major U.S. stock indexes, such as the Dow Jones industrials and Standard & Poor's 500, will plunge below their bear market lows hit in March 2009 during the last financial crisis. The brief recovery will fail as it did in the 1930s, he says. 3 doomsaying experts who foresee economic devastation ahead ? USATODAY.com

I am so glad you emphasized the parts about self-reliance and getting food stored in your homes I agree those things are often overlooked and think that is so important for our day. I also agree that these talks are full of sound economic advice. I find it amazing that he started talking about this in 1998, again in 2001 and then again in 2005 and then this economic storm which started in 2001 and then increased in 2008 happened. President Eyring in many of his talks says that when a prophet repeats himself or others pay attention. Not too long before general conference our Stake President was told by the visiting General Authority that the brethren know that there is a "storm" on the horizon but that they didn't know what it would be exactly. As you probably know if you copy much of a talk here the thread will be erased so a lot of what I use are excerpts from talks, but if you read the talks I think that I do a pretty good job of staying with what the prophets and apostles were saying using direct quotes as much as possible. It's funny that you emphasize, "I do not know what the future holds" because many anti-mormon sites use that to prove he is not a prophet...how could he be if he doesn't know what lies ahead? But I think he did know...not the particulars but he certainly knew that a storm was coming and he couldn't get "Pharoah's Dream" out of his mind for many years and said it was "portentious." Here is the quote you pointed to... Said President Hinckley (The Times in Which We Live)..."I do not know what the future holds. I do not wish to sound negative, but I wish to remind you of the warnings of scripture and the teachings of the prophets which we have had constantly before us. I cannot forget the great lesson of Pharaoh’s dream of the fat and lean kine and of the full and withered stalks of corn. I cannot dismiss from my mind the grim warnings of the Lord as set forth in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I am familiar, as are you, with the declarations of modern revelation that the time will come when the earth will be cleansed and there will be indescribable distress, with weeping and mourning and lamentation (see D&C 112:24). Now, I do not wish to be an alarmist. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom...I do not believe the time is here when an all-consuming calamity will overtake us. I earnestly pray that it may not." I really liked your emphasis on getting prepared because we/they don't know exactly when these things (from his talk not this thread) will happen, just that it will happen. If we "prepare every needful thing" for our families then we don't need to worry about it. You know if the stock market continues to increase and jobs improve throughout this year I truly will be amazed...perhaps enough to dance in a pink tutu...although I'm pretty sure most of you wouldn't want to see that...:) Particularly I might do it if my husband's own job situations improve as both of the part-time jobs that have been supporting us for the past six years became very precarious this past week. Murphy's Law...

How about a tin hat...I warned you going into these posts you might need one for some of them... Hopefully, we can all make them from the #10 cans we are buying from the Lds Home Storage centers. Don't forget to store at least a 3 month supply of chocolate...we might NEED it.

Hey...while you might be sayin' I'm not followin' But I believe that prophets are the mouthpiece of God. I would never want to cram words into President Monson's or any other prophet's mouth.

Gerald Celente prediction...“Some form, whether it’s that or not… some form of economic martial law… expect it, in the first quarter of 2012.” – Interview with Lew Rockwell Gerald Celente expects bank holiday or economic martial law in 2012 predictions - National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com

"Today is not different from ages past. The Lord does not love the people of our day any less than in past times...Much of what the Lord reveals to His prophets is intended to prevent sorrow for us as individuals and as societies. When God speaks, He does so to teach, inspire, refine, and warn His children. When individuals and societies ignore their Heavenly Father’s instructions, they do so at the risk of trial, torment, and toil." "God loves all His children. That is why He pleads so earnestly with us through His prophets...That is why His instructions are so crucial and sometimes so urgent. That is why He has not abandoned us today...Our fate and the fate of our world hinge on our hearing and heeding the revealed word of God..." President Uchtdorf, "Why Do We Need Prophets," Ensign March 2012 Why Do We Need Prophets? - Ensign Mar. 2012 - ensign

Thanks Matthew...I appreciate your thanks. I like to collect the quotes on this from the prophets and there have been A LOT in the last year. It's a good resource if anyone needs to give a talk as I included the sources at the bottom. I hope it will be useful to someone.

Post Script... Predicted "dates" almost never happen! But it is wonderful that "if you are prepared you have no need to fear" such things. In the June Ensign President Monson told us, “Living welfare principles is about putting our faith in Jesus Christ into action—by eliminating unnecessary debt, living within our means, and establishing family home storage and financial reserves…Our faith leads us to educate our minds and our hands and to work every day of our lives to be self-reliant. Having taken care of our own needs, we are better able to provide for ourselves and serve others. May we follow the counsel not only to do good but strive to be good, not just to do better but to be better. Obedience to the Lord’s counsel brings temporal and spiritual blessings. It allows us to face the challenges of life armed with courage and confidence rather than fear and doubt.” President Monson also said in October Conference of 2009, “I am reminded of the words of the Lord found in the book of Ether in the Book of Mormon. Said the Lord, ‘Ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come.’ My brothers and sisters, He has prepared us. If we heed His words and live the commandments, we will survive…”While President Monson was talking of spiritual survival, the example he used was of how the Lord prepared a way for the physical survival of his people. Regardless, we are assured that if we heed His words and live the commandments we will be blessed."