peteolcott

I have the testimony that the LDS church is the most righteous church on Earth. I also remember from the last general conference (Friday night or Sunday Morning) that one of the speakers acknowledged he gave a talk in the morning and later realized in the afternoon or evening that his morning talk was incorrect and then provided the right talk. Could someone please find out exactly which talk this was? I am trying to define exactly what the term {One true church of Christ} means. The Catholic church seems to think that the pope is infallible whenever he speaks from his chair. That one of your leaders acknowledged that a talk that he gave was incorrect would seem to explicitly acknowledge human fallibility. Exactly where does one draw the line between inherent human fallibility and the meaning of the term {One true church of Christ} ?

I have had horrible experience with other non LSD "Christians". Most all of them that I have encountered have been mostly closed minded most of the time. I totally gave up on Christianity for over a decade.

It is like this: Righteousness is not so much a matter of discarding aspects of the human nature as it is aquiring aspects of the divine nature. What does your ScreenName signify?

I know that you have it as doctrine that the Prophet is the only one that gets messages for the whole world. I also know that Mormons are by far the most receptive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, that is why I consider the LDS Church to be the most righteous church on Earth. Try as best you can to receive the following with minds completely open: Righteousness is not so much about repentance as it is a metamorphosis from the human nature into the divine nature.

How about I make things really simple and just agree with that. My human nature tends to get off track pursuing tedious minutiae, sorry about that.

What I am saying is that "Yeshua" is what his actual name sounds like when you pronounce it. If it was spelled in the original language it would still sound the same when pronounced. "Jesus" was never his actual name.

As far as I know "Yeshua" is exactly and precisely the correct transliteration of his name. Because I have a problem with insufficent humility, I allowed for the possibility that I may be less than 100% correct. Like I also said, it probably does not make a difference if we call him Jesus or Yeshua. It might possibly make a difference, but it probably does not. There is at least one chance in infinity that all the prayers in the name of Jesus are ineffective because that was not his name.

I think that the English transliteration of Yeshua may be as close as we can get. I could be wrong on this. In any case it does seem that "Yeshua" is at least more correct than "Jesus". Likewise with YHWH and Jehovah.

If anyone called me Pedro I would not know that they are talking to me because Pedro is not my name. My name is Peter. Because of this it would seem that the translation of any proper name would always be incorrect. I am very careful, that is why I use Yeshua instead of Jesus. It might be possible that any prayer in the name of "Jesus" is ineffective because that was not exactly and precisely his name. I am estimating that it probaby does not make any difference, yet I choose to err on the side of precise accuracy.

Since the ultimate peace would be non-existence, maybe going for maximum joy might be better.

Yes that is what I am referring to when I ask for clarification instead of disagreement. God figured out that his own joy could be greater if he also received joy through maximizing the joy of others. I agree that Yeshua (his name never really was Jesus) is the perfect example.

But that is just marketing hype which tends to be somewhat deceitful.

I can't distinguish any difference between maximum joy (largest amount of joy for the longest amount of time) and ultimate joy.

Yes it seems that we are in agreement. Some grief, pain and suffering seems a required part of the path to maximum joy.

Yes it seems that these things are true. Yet if these things are true how could any degree of paradise be possible?

Yes, and the purpose of experience is to learn how to attain greater joy. I also agree that some misery is required to know joy.

It might seem that the only truly wicked (wrongful) things would be those things that inherently produce the opposite of joy (within ourselves or others). Those things that produce small amounts of joy over the short term at the expense of greater joy in the longer term would then not be considered wicked or evil, more aptly they might be considered "not sufficiently rightful". Also those things that produce small amounts of joy in the short term at the expense of larger despair in the longer term would be considered wrongful.

The Holy Spirit has revealed to me (many times over many years) that the ultimate purpose of God's Master Plan can be stated in two words: Maximize Joy! When I tell the dozens or Mormon missionaries this they provide me with 2 Nephi 2:25 "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." When I say that the ultimate purpose of God's Master Plan is to Maximize Joy, I mean: That "maximize Joy" is the pinnacle of the decision tree upon which every other aspect of the plan is fundamentally based and that "maximize Joy" is the ultimate criterion measure for determining right and wrong. When I say "Maximize Joy" I am referring to the maximum quantity and quality of joy, (largest degree of joy and longest duration of joy). Because of this I am not referrring to things that produce a small amount of joy in the short term at the expense of reducing larger amounts of joy in the longer term. Please see whatever agreement that you can provide with the above. If for whatever reason you see any disagreement, please only seek further clarification. The most important doctrine that I have learned from the Mormon Church is the Spirit of Contention (3 Nephi 11:29-30) this single doctrine has been the most life changing for me. I continue to strive to be more like the excellent examples of humility provided by the members of my Ward. I still "miss the mark" of these examples so please be patient with me, I am striving to become more humble.

One thing seems self-evident and that is the actual truth about righteousness could only be attained from this point of view, every other perspective could at best be only a shadow of this. I have known the Pinnacle of the Master Plan for a long time now, the key aspect of the plan that everything else is based is simply: Maximize Joy.

That is an excellent point. If it bears no fruit then it is useless. If it bears bad fruit then it is worse than useless. This is possibly the best way to keep one's focus on what truly matters. This is the way that I have determined that Mormons are a good example for me to follow. I continue to see the good fruit of the spirit from them. The subject of this thread lets me see things from God's own point of view, and thus get closer to the truth than is otherwise humanly possible. This lets me better divide what is truly right from what is mere human misunderstanding.

I humbly apologize for my arrogance. It may be the case that what you verified with the Holy Spirit might not have been what I am saying. I do not think that individuality will ever cease to be.

"it is true that by their fruits you can know of it's truth." The humility that I have seen and the lack of judging others, and certain key doctrine is what has given me the impression that the Mormons are closer to righteousness than any other denomination of Christianity. For me the truth of the subject of this thread enables all of what is said in the bible to fit together into a much more coherent whole and thus make much more sense.

It does seem like the Mormons do have a good head start ahead of the rest.

Test this: Are human beings in any way manifestations of God? When I tested whether or not the Book of Mormon is true the answer that I got was the Book of Mormon is good.

Not everyone else here has said that they have already tested it. My lack of humility is my greatest fault. I am learning more humility from the excellent examples provided by my Mormon friends. Words are slipperly and most often unable to fully express subtle nuances. What I am trying to express is most often otherwise known as Chrisitian Mysticism.