YaYaYaYana

-No, not really... This is a terrible mind set of north American... When i met a lot of my friends at Japanese and Korean language exchanges... one of the main differences there is that parents have children when they are around 30 or older... And most of them... support their children until they are themselves around 30... ( Including all of university and traveling abroad) Most of my friends from Korea and Japan are international students in Canada .. their parents pay their whole tuition and rent and give them spending money... - They say that they are enjoying their life ... one Korean lady that I met was 34 and has a baby now... she said that is they way things should be ... her parents paid for to study in japan and us.. she had an amazing time in her youth .. now that she is a parent she will put in the same effort to set those fiances aside for her children as well... -The way that they break it down... 27-33 is the ideal time for marriage... and all of them keep telling me that I'm extremely young and need to be studying / traveling/ working and enjoying my self .....and it's the parents responsibility to give me those opportunities... - Unfortunately I was born to a life not worth living... I constantly see other people living my dreams...which is horrible... I'm terribly depressed most of the time and tell my parents that it would have been better if I wasn't born at all than to be alive and suffer like this ... - I mean I want to travel now... I want to be graduated now and should be starting a career and working for 3 years until I'm 27 ... instead im just starting....school now... thanks to my Stupid parents that couldn't save up and provide for me the way they were suppose to ...

That's not true... Maybe closer to 35-38.... You don't necessarily need to save up everything by the time a baby is born... Just 5,000 for college fund that would grow automatically over the 20 years... and just save up some more for expenses for the kid along the way

That's not true... Maybe closer to 35-38....

I never said you have to be a millionaire Either ... but you should plan to have saving to have a kid... just as you save up for other things such as a house/ car.. The only thing is that the kid is more important because it will be a human being with hopes and dreams... and he/she will depend look up to parents to provide for him/her... And in my honest opinion... If third world counties would stop reproducing so much it would be great.. They have horrible finances .. and have 5/6 kids who end up eating garbage / orphaned in danger .... and now depend on foreign aid to rescue them... China for instance... is a smart country that has got the right Idea " The one child policy"... If in the other countries.. a one or 2 child policy was put in ... things would be better.... No one really needs to have 5 of 6 children.... 1or 2 could bring just as much joy and things would be more affordable on the parents and also the child will be able to do more with the finances set aside.... Even though that is kind of mean... this is what I think... a lot of 3rd world countries/ children would benefit from it...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Giving kids all the money and toys when they are young doesn't not make them grateful and it certainly doesn't help them learn the importance about earning money.... My friend told me that Even bill gate doesn't give his grow-up children any of his money.... However he said they are well taken care of... as in all of their extracurricular/ their college education and anything they may need to help them grow an developed is fully funded... This is the difference ........ -It is a good thing to thing to give your kids allowance in return for chores and having them work in the summer....and make them save up for useless things like toys and clothes that's not going to last anyways... through this way they learn about fiances and work ethic.. - However; Kids do and will have interest in dance/ sports/ arts/ maybe foreign language../ Maybe a talent that if developed would help them determine what they want to do later on in life and help them discover more about them selves ..... kids need to try many different things to discover talents and abilities .... Sometimes this requires a special school like a private school... or if a kid decides that he or she wants to study foreign languages in college to be come a translator.. to get the upper hand advantage a year long study abroad and additional trip to practice the language in the original country would be important ,.... These are the things that parents need to have finances saved up for... To save up for that the parents would have to be quite educated and have a couple of years of work put in to put money aside for the child... such as 5,000 college fund when their baby is born.. so that he or she would have a peaceful debt free / mostly stress free fun and enjoyable experience ...and a lot of other expanses for growth and development -That is the difference between my friend and I she had parents who saved up for her and her older sister... she is only 3 years older than me and just became a lawyer a couple of months ago.. Her parents financed the whole 8 years of school!!!~ she is out working with no debts now happily married at 26 ... and ready to save up and start own family.... ( Her parents had her when her mother was 33 and also a recently working lawyer...Had her mother been 23 and had her when she only fished an English degree and not the law school with a few years of work... she would not have had the same happiness/ relief and success as she does now)

I really wish this wad wrong... From the wards i attended and those that i heard attended build said they really felt the pressure there

It not about my patents not giving them everything I wanted. Parents aren't suppose to just throw .or shower their children with every single thing they want.. but as parents they are responsible to provide for them.... things that would help them learn and grow like language lessons or extra curricular activities and sports that can be very costly as well as a good college fun d... .....my parents being at the age they were not stable enough to.have a family.... they should of waited as my friends family did to work up and study up for 10 years... it would have benifited us all.... THE FACT that the church emphasis young people who are just in or just graduating school... both the young women abd men to get married when they are in that fragile state is not the best idea...... .... If marriage is so important in the church I would rather it be that the emphasis would be placed in young women marrying someone 8-10years older... and more stable

IT it not vastly overated... I would much rather have a 10 year old kid by the time I'M 40 and when she asks me.. "mom" I want to take jaoanese lessons at saturday school... or dance lessons.. or have a birthday party ata specific place....and wants to invite a certaun mount of friends over.... I want to be able to afford all ofthat... and not be the mother that has to tell her kids that write can't afford that.... or later on in life have to tell my kifs tt you can't go to this school...becuase I'M too poor to pay for the dorm....and tell them that they need to take out student loans becuase i can't support their education..... -as with my friend and me.... we are the same age almost...she is 21 her mother who took time to study become a lawyer and had her at 38 just paid off her under grad education...during these 4years she was able to go o. A year long exchange program to japan.. and is niw goung again to do masters in music over there... as her dream was to be a music manager over there since she was 14...... her older parents that bothered to build up finances Gave her a life that she enjoys....a life that enabled her to also bexome accomplished and soon start to build up her own finance..... so she would do that same for her chuldren some day... I being 23.... being to a mother in her Young 20's who hasn't bothered to build up her carer or stable finances....suffered for 23 years... always having to. SEttle for second hand or second best simply because we couldnot nd still cannot afford it...And I remind my mother every day about it... when I go out to work everydayjust to make some.money to cover text book cost and tuition costs by slaving my butt of in a burger sh which leaves me no time to pursuers hobbies or dreams at the end of the day.... because i am trying to survive on the the bare minimum...... I tell my mother every day about how could she be so selfish....and that It would havemo been better is i was born in 1999 when she was 34 instead of 1989 when she was 24....... now you tell me if it's selfish to wait... and put off.family for a short time.. in order to become accomplished and build up funances that would benifit your family in the long run...... I KNOW IT WOULD HAVE DONE A LOT OF GOOD FOR ME ...what was the point of me being born early 10 years.... only to live a life that i need to.endure instead of enjoy

NOPE, Playing and enjoying yourself should be when you"re young!.... You can even meet someone that you can end up marrying on your travels and year long university exchanges...also Young people need to have some freedom to become accomplished and financially stable adults before taking the step to creating a family.... It's only peterpan conplex if you're 27-30 and espexially if your in your 30's and do t want to settle down and have a family... IT is actually more beneficial for. Kids to have older more responisble parents... like for example one of my best friends friends in highschool .. her older sister was born when the mother was 35 and she was born when the mother was 38... by that time the mother already was working as a lawyer.. the father who is same age as tje other had an accomplished career in advertising..... I one the other hand was born when my mother was 24... and my brother was born 4 years later when my familt came to Canada... both couldnt use their degrees and had to work and still have to work labour jobs to nake eds meet.... I look at her life and I look at mine.... and what I realized that it's up to the parents to provide a life for their kids that they can enjoy and not have to endure.....and in most cazes maturity and financial stability comes with age

I'M not saying that a 21 year old shouldn't...I know some 21 years old who have graduated with a bachelor's degree.... have no debts or student loans to pay off... have done alot to travel and enjoy their life through hreatexperiences during high school and college which their parents 100 percent funded..... now that they have enjoyed...their time have started a career..they can very well seek marriage and look inti having a family.... ad they are now capable of supporting their children..... The above mentioned is actually an examole of a girl i know frim my old church ward... she is happily married at 21 since she was blessed to live her life so well and complete those steps... she can very well move on to step three to becomming a parent and adding to society as she is already quite and acxomplished nd establish edam A young woman...... however most people at 21 @are. Not lucky enough to have that life style run into marriages unccomolished/uneducated / financial unprepared at that age and then their whole family sufferes.... I heard in young women's that marriage shouldn't be put off for things like a career or education.... but in my mind I see it as if a women gets her baxhelors degree she shouldn't put off marriage to go crazy and study for another 6 years....to get masters and so o n....and she shouldn't be a crazy work a Holocaust that sje abandons family duties... but every should have the bare.minimun of holding a bachelor's degree and should work at least three days for experience.....

I'm not saying women who choose to get married are making the wrong choice... If they have the finances or even if they don't but they feel accomplished enough and confident about the choice that they and their husbands can make it work...willing to sacrifice some things (e.g career/ some dreams) ... Decide to live on husbands income and be a stay at home mom for some.... Is fine if they made that choice feeling that it's what they wanted... I just don't like how pressure and emphasis I push in the LDS church for them to be married earlier ..... Like for example I heard from a friend ...sometimes the attitude seems like it's the end of the world in BYU if you don't find a mate by the end of college.... This kind of pressure is just bad... for young/ sometimes immature / and sometimes financially unstable people.... Just saying... -Also the Presbyterian church doesn't teach anything superior about family... It's just when i see how the slightly older couples in their 30's with young babies are living quite securely and happily compared to some young women I know in my old LDS ward ..... makes me think

Hello!! ~ Nice to meet you too ~ I am having a good evening and I hope that you are having a good time as well. - I'm not trying to validate a lifestyle that I think is right or wrong ... I am just stating a point about the Church culture and BYU pressure to get married young and how it makes things complicated with the way things are today ,,,,, First off, -Why church culture and BYU puts so much pressure on young 20's people to get married and start a family... It is a step in life ... that shouldn't be rushed... In this day and age ... University/ college education and career should definitely come first if one wants to give their future family and kids a good life which they can enjoy and not need to endure... -Seeing how every good secure job requires at least a minimum of a bachelors degree which is costly to get in the first place ... and if you have a baby and try to juggle school and it's finances it just becomes impossible.... I mean step one before step 2 right? 2) I'm not saying no one should marry while younger... I just think every one shouldn't do that or feel pressured to making this kind of choice. For example) I know a girl who got married at 20 last year and she is doing fine.. She just graduated Uni. Her father is a really rich businessman... So she was able to enjoy traveling and accomplishing dreams while in high school and summer breaks during college... She did a lot of internship work as well do to connections her father has and now at age 21 she hold a bachelor and a high position in marketing career... Why shouldn't she settle down now and follow the commandments or God to start a family ..... -In her case if it probably be a selfish and a sin not to... Since she is well accomplished and has a good financial position to support 5 or 6 kids with her husbands work alone not counting in hers... and even if she didn't graduate she could easily afford child care and school with the kind of money her father makes.... -However; most people are not that fortunate... like me for instance.... and some of my friends... in middle school and high school we spent most of our time only dreaming of things that this girl did ... My parents do not have the money to pay for my college education... I got scholarships for small diploma program in drawing because I attended an arts high school and won the top award at my graduation... However that did nothing for me ... I realize that I need a career ... I work full time during summer and have to finance my own education now and for the next four years.... -By the time I graduate I will be 27 and so will most of my friends... We do have dreams we want to accomplish as well as save up finances ... so It just falls in to the right age range for most people to be 27-30 ...to become parents ... where they are more or less accomplished and capable to support their children ....... - If I and some friends were to give into the pressure to find a husband and get married now... We would all feel miserably failed I'm sure..... As I would miss out on my youth as a student ....even now at 23 I feel kinda old .... I sure don't want to be in class with 17 year old kids.... and at that point money should be setting aside money to put into my own children's college funds... which I wouldn't have any ... If i don't graduate - Also If one doesn't accomplish some of their goals/ traveling somewhere / or learning some specific in order to make them feel accomplished and satisfied in their life I doubt they would have a very fulfilling time raising their children and setting aside money for them .... while feeling unfulfilled unaccomplished themselves .... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -To make my point more clear Being 23 I have a close friend who is 31 years old and mother to a 1 year old girl. I met her as a language exchange partner and while talking with her she told me that she and her friends feel very young and perfect time to become mothers. - She said if she had become a mother at 23 or 24 she would have missed out on a lot of amazing opportunities in life... One of her dreams was to study in Japan... That is what she did in university spent quite a bit of time traveling and studying abroad ( all paid for by her hard working parents) After she finished she got a job worked and Got married... -She said that by being 30 and having had the experience she had... made her feel satisfied and accomplish in life. She appreciates her parents example for what they have done for her and opportunities that they have created for her to enjoy life ... which she will do for her child and future children.... - Also she said that when you have a family it doesn't get cheaper and mothers dreams are sacrificed a lot because the child is priority for the parents... Now she will need to put money aside for her daughter in case she wants to take any kind of lessons/ for hobbies / traveling that she might want to do as well... -This is why her advise was that 27-30 is the best time...because by that time you would have a well balanced life of accomplishments and fulfillment and you want to take the step forward to start a family life ....

-Why church culture and BYU puts so much pressure on young 20's people to get married and start a family... It is a step in life ... that shouldn't be rushed... In this day and age ... University/ college education and career should definitely come first if one wants to give their future kids a good life which they can enjoy and not endure... -Seeing how every good secure job requires at least a minimum of a bachelors degree which is costly to get in the first place ... and if you have a baby and try to juggle school and it's finances it just becomes impossible.... I mean step one before step 2 right?

- That is true ... Age can only be seen/felt?.. through ones own perspective based on their won age I guess... When I was attending LDS church from age 10-19... I was use to the idea that most people married in their 20's and had kids... When I was in young women's class at age 13 there was a 22 year old girl who brought in her new born and sat in class with us to help teach... At that time I thought Wow she is really old... !! I thought that 22 was a good old motherly age..... - However; now that I am 23 ... I would probably think that 30 is old and 13 is young... I decided to stop looking at age like that and instead think of the accomplishment and stability at certain ages... and based on my friends at the Asian church that I am visiting ... I would say 27-33 is about right... Since that is the time most are already done university/ college had time to enjoy their student life/ work a little to save up finances and feel accomplished enough to start settling down... at this point ,,.,, -Marriage and Family is a step in life ... the same as elementary school or middle school or high school or college and career.... And church culture promoting marriages to young 20 years old does not seem like the best thing as the pressure can mess up important steps for some people...

There is nothing wrong in your situation! In fact if you guys felt accomplished and had the maturity level at you R age to perhaps sacrifice othet less important things in life and devoted yourselves to creating a family than that is great! Your wife and your self seemed to be mature enough to probably look for a companion with similar goal and you've done a great job... ... You would be the kinda of role model in the church...... but this is where the problem comes in.... If your lifestyle is seen as ideal and pressured as the norm in church culture... people your age with much less maturity and responsibility would try to live up to that kind of exampe... but with their level of maturity end up making poor choices... The thing about lining up all the women and men up are byu and getting them sealed would work perfectly inall theory as... all are expected to follow the law of chasity and if any man and woman put in the. Effort to make a marriage work and live by the comandmands it works out perfectly...

-NOPE, 20-26 is incredibly young! That's when people start time discovered them selves as an adult and go through their last stages of education and start to establish themselves career wise and feel accomplished.... 27 -37 are still young stong adult that are more stable and capable of holding a. Family as well as supporting them...

- I have read this small paragraph a while ago.. I think it was on this forum actually... not quite sure who wrote it down.. I just copied and pasted it into a word pad entry and saved it for later so that I could wonder and ponder on this quote. "I was talking to one of my religion professors and he said the Church is worried about the dating situation at BYU (Provo). More and more students are graduating while still single." - I have been baptized in the Church at the age of 10 and now 23. I have been actively attending church until I was 19.... I had to stop due to family reasons... However, I do plan to go back sometime in the near future -The point is ..... One thing that always bothered me about the church is the pressure to get married young... by young I mean really young as the op quote shows... the pressure is on university students to be married by the time they are out of school..... -When I think of The church ... I think of it as 1800's in terms of their views on dating and marriage where you get married young and end up having 4/ 5 children.. The women give up their careers and become stay at home mothers .... If and when a problem a serious problem with the husband arises.. they cannot leave in the case where he is the "Good sole provider.. -As for BYU... when I read that quote I though back to titanic... the part where Roses mother was talking to another lady... They were discussing weather or not Rose should attend university and the mother replies... some thing along the lines of, that it is for the purpose of finding a suitable husband and Rose has already done that..... The setting of the movie was 1912.... It's 2012... the fact that BYU has this atmosphere that pressures young women to hunt for a spouse is really uncomfortable to me ... -I know that there is no particular right or wrong time for people to get married... However, when I became inactive in the Mormon church due to my father... I took up an interest in learning an Asian language... through a language exchange club I met a friend and she invited me to her church... I thought it would be a good idea since I could practice listening to the language I was learning and continue to worship God meanwhile telling my father that I was attending a language club with her on Sundays... -The church is a Presbyterian Church and even though I know they do not have the fullness of the Gospel the way our LDS Church does ... I feel that they go about the consideration of marriage and family much better than Mormons do.. -The average age to get married in Asia (Korea/Japan) would be starting from 26 for women and somewhere from 28 to 30 for men. There have been over 5 children born in the church this year and the mothers who had their first Baby where 29-33 years old... -A LDS friend who came along with me that day felt that it was too old to start a family but my friend explained to him like this ... -30 Years old is when the person becomes a real mature adult ... with ( in most cases) enough stability and maturity to have a family ..... 26-30 is a great age to get married at because at this point the person had enough time to enjoy their youthful days being a student and starting a career that they feel fulfilled enough to start a family... and also have fiances set aside for needs of future children and expenses ... -Now, being 23 years old... I actually have a bias towards this mind set! At the age of 20 and 21 I have dated some men and wanted to marry them... now That i look back I realize how totally Immature my ways of thinking were.... and If I have gotten married and had children I would have ended up in a bad position.. Young/ uneducated/ unfulfilled dreams ... At age 23 I'm now only beginning to consider serious dating .. and realized that my mind is maturing enough to look for better qualities in a potential partner than what i looked for in a boy friend at age 20... -Even now at age 23 I feel that this is the time for me to study/work/learn/travel/ enjoy life with my friends...and only by 27 will likely feel the need and maturity to prepare for marriage and family life ) Early 20's till is considered youth or young adults a time that should be spent achieving dreams and accomplishing academic goals and preparing for a career... - Encouraging young women in their early 20's who are just uni or fresh out to get married and start a family sounds frightening to me..because children are not cheap.... quite a bit of money should be set a side for any future children that one might plan to have .... If you choose to bring a child/ children into this world... it is the responsibility of that mother and father to make sure they can provide financially and emotionally. The child needs to grow up enjoying life not enduring it.. This is where being older (27-30) comes in handy... Older= more time to save up finances for child/ and for the emotional part= more mature Parent is more likely to be more devoted to the child.... nurture the child and spend more time focusing on the needs of the baby where as a younger moth might feel lonely/ unhappy being at home with the baby while friends her age are enjoying them selves by going out and she can't... -Sorry for the long rant-ish post ... I guess i have an issue with the church on this subject as quite a few times I read post like " My husband and I were married while we were really young.... and we have this ..this ... this problem..) * In many cases I felt could have been avoided... with a does of maturity and finances that come with age* --- Just feel like the Church/BYU could catch on with the times and not be stuck in this 1900's perception of marriage *__* -Yana

By All means please enjoy you USA The morality and principals and economic crisis

and you know so little about life that you don't even know what you don't know. -Might be true but.............. AH IT'S GREAT TO BE YOUNG :DDDD Now I;ll get going ~ GOOD NITE TO YOU ^^

...Dishonesty would be to complete cover this up and pretend like it never happened or go to the bishop and tone some of the details down... so that it would sound like what he did is much less harmful than what really happened/// However I am not encouraging that... I do encourage the he comes clean at the end and says the full truth/// but education is also very important it's the second most important thing after the gospel///and what is the difference in repenting now or 4 months later when you graduate right? Either way he would go through the repentance process anyways.. but now he has two problems on his shoulder's repentance and finishing school...what's the point of that..... stopping someones educational progress has nothing to do with their spiritual maturity when he prays and repents and comes clean of his sin.. it all has to do with his actions involving the people or situation around him... it has nothing to do with his grades or his studies// so what the point of making him suffer in that area..? In usual schools...Usually academic probation is given to someone who is not pulling their grades well enough... and for other problems counseling is given... so in this case his mistake would qualify as "other" he should do councelling with the bishop but not have his schooling suffer because of it

"There is no separation when it's a private school owned by a church."... I meant to say that I hope Religion doesn't take over all the schools... so there can still be a separation for those individuals who wish to keep those two areas of their life Education and religion apart... Nope I do not say heck with code of Honor... He should definitely confess for his sins and mistakes and come clean.. But I'm saying in his case it would have been better to finish the 2 classes first.. that way he could have his degree ready to apply to another graduate school.... since BYU will not let him continue there for 1.5 years.. he could progress with his repentance progress at church .. while continuing his education else where.... In 1.5 years he could be done with both and get even farther in life... What's the use in stopping someones educational progress along with their spiritual one...

correction..." I can do better without Them... " BYU is not that much more amazing than other universities or colleges... It's just a university, where some people have an amazing experience and others not so much...It's a learning institute full of classes students and teachers, Just like many other schools around the world just with less reasonable punishments for making mistakes... In other schools if you mess up on something you can just write a letter and they would take the academic or whatever probation off and let you continue in BYU you can't just confess and sign a paper saying you will try harder not to mess up again and just continue from that point on .. you actually have to waste precious time..time you can actually spend learning while repenting for mistake Despite the low tuition cost if you add the dorm fee/ meals/ plane tickets like twice a year like way over what I paid by walk 5 streets to my uni for the past two years ^^~ It's not the problem with keeping the Honor code... Nobody enters the school thinking.. OH YEAH.. I'm gonna get in there ans break this commandment and then that one... But people do slip up and the punishment is really unfair... they should just make the person stop attending church for a year and just do the schooling instead..

Yep pretty much!~ He did do the work for the money so I guess the 5 bucks out of the 50 would go towards the tithe.. and since she gave him another 5 bucks... I guess it means he should take 0,50 cents and add that to his tithing too

Nope! Even If my Job was owned by a LDS church member... I would still pay tithing on the money that I would earn... since it would still be an income that I am my self earning... I do the job = Money earned= own income= need to pay 10%... If your parents ... Like the poster's parents are financially supporting him because of financial difficulties.. means that he doesn't need to pay... I mean if some one was on church welfare or any kind of Government assistance I heard they would be exempt from tithing as well... so this would be the same I am guessing... When My mom gives me money it's kinda like helping me out as well.. so I don't pay anything on it.. unless you do chores and earn money from parents... .... On my dad's money I tithe because well. he doesn't pay tithing and I usually earn money from him as opposed to my mom where she just gives it to me ...

If I were you... I would have kept it quiet.. Until I finished the 2 classes and had the Bachelors Degree (Diploma) In my hand... and right after that... I would go and confess... While on being dis fellowship just apply to a different school for Grad school... I'm LDS and all... But I strongly disagree with having a church control a school... Just because of the position that you got yourself in.. People do make mistakes .. sometimes Big ones... It should only be required that you deal with those actions at church and should have no impact on your education... I what does BYU gain in making someone delay their graduation and academic progression in life... After reading this ... I now know why Church and State are Separate.... Church and School should be separate too.... I mean I understand that one needs to be disfellowshiped from the church in order to repent and get back on the spiritual path... but why does education need to suffer as well.... @__@ - I would suggest to switch schools and try to finish the two courses and apply to graduate school!!!! There is no need to waste ... 1.5 years it is a huge amount of time in which you can accomplish much and get on with your life.. - This kind of discipline put me off of applying to BYU. I was worried that if I would make a... make a similar mistake and be punished like that ...