Hala401
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Posts posted by Hala401
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It can all be over so suddenly. I'm sorry
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Ripfoster's discussion in the book club section about a certain book has triggered a response in me, that I wanted to bring here for separate discussion.
Re: porn -- do we as a culture have different standards and responses for men and women using porn?
Of course, I don't believe God has a double standard. I'm not even sure I believe the church and its leaders have a double standard (though it seems they have spent a lot more time and energy preaching to men against visual porn than preaching to women about written porn).
What I'm wondering about is more cultural/personal. I recall a blog entry on a feminist blog where the blogger described a dinner party with a handful of Mormon couples. The discussion turned to porn and the women in the party decided that porn use was automatic grounds for divorce. When pressed, they even decided that porn use was worse than adultery and a stronger cause for divorce than an affair. Would we ever say the same thing about erotic romance novels?
If a group of priesthood holders who got together monthly to play video games decided at one meeting that they were going to check out some "nude art," would our response be, "I think it is disgusting, but hopefully after a few picture they will realize they are in the wrong and decide to go back to playing games." or would our response be more visceral?
If there is a double standard, does it have a basis in reality? Do men respond differently to visual porn than women respond to written porn?
In looking at the first post in this thread, I must say that I think the original premiss is I think rather shallow. In light of the information that I have seen over the years, addiction to pornography is much more wide spread in our culture, to include the LDS culture than anyone has so far admitted. And, shockingly women also struggle with it, though I do not know if it is to the extent that men do.
For this thread to mean anything at all; something different than the usual smug back patting session that these sorts of things engender. I am wondering when someone will step up and own up to having or having had a problem?
I had a problem with it and it ended a 40 year marriage. I took steps to prevent it ever happening again, though will carry the pain and guilt to my grave. It is by the power of the Atonement that I stay alive today. Come on folks, I know that I am not alone.
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I fear that couples with lots of children and responsibilities do not have the time to root out the real causation. And neither person in the marriage can be expected to always be the one to root out the problem.
The woman assumes she is not desireable; cared for. The Husband does what ever he does and no one solves it. Neither seem able to realise that "It is not always about them".
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I can say with some authority that had I and any of my siblings have done such a thing, I would not be here today.
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dogemily mentions mom, but not Dad. Is Dad not there? Maybe Mom has too much on her shoulders?
Perhaps Dad would have pinned you both down and covered you with Catsup and let it dry?
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Women do seem to respond differently than men when they discover porn use in their spouse. How much of this is the cause for the "double standard," how much is the result of the "double standard," and how much of it is in the inherent sexual differences of men and women?
Interesting hypothetical. And it does seem to be a scenario that plays out in real life, too. Here's my take.
As written, the beginning point for the dynamic is his porn use. No information is given to ask why he got involved with porn, so we'll assume he made some bad choices. He begins to prefer the virtual sex to the real world, and ceases to seek out or respond to his wife. At this point, he has to become manipulative and deceptive to keep his porn use a secret (It is interesting to me that some therapists have said that a big part of the "addictive" nature of pornography has to do with this need to keep it a secret, which could easily stem from his fear that she will "cry hysterically" upon learning about his porn use). As the sexual relationship deteriorates, she becomes frustrated and resentful, but she doesn't know the true reason for his refusal. After 15 years, that sexual frustration eventually sends her looking for a sexual relationship elsewhere, which is, ultimately, her choice.
Where I think we as an institution and a culture really fail in this kind of scenario is that we don't really acknowledge or validate the pain and frustration that comes from chronic sexual refusal/sexless marriages. In essence, as you said earlier, MissHalfway, it is part of developing a healthy relationship with and understanding of our sexuality and its place in marriage. My analysis is probably too colored by my own experience, but here's one way I see it playing out. The wife's first indication there is a problem comes as she notices them slipping into a sexless marriage. Of course, we accept that sex is "allowed" in marriage, and even "beautiful." We don't ever really acknowledge that it is important and necessary, and that sexless marriages are bad, whether the lack of sex is the cause or the result of other dysfunction in the marriage or even the only obvious problem in the marriage. Perhaps this wife's response to her sexual frustration sounds like, "what is wrong with me?! I'm a woman, and women aren't supposed to get frustrated sexually." Or, "Does he really love me if he won't have sex with me? But sex is not supposed to be a litmus test for love." She spends those early years beating up on herself, and not dealing with the presenting problem of a sexless marriage.
What would have happened if, after one month, "You haven't initiated sex, and you've rebuffed all my advances in the last month. You and I both know (because our parents/church taught us) that a sexless marriage is not healthy. What is interfering with our sex life and what can we do to keep it healthy?" Of course, he probably lies and manipulates to avoid the real reason (porn), but she persists and after a few months they end up in counseling. Hopefully at some point, he, or she or the therapist has the insight to uncover and begin to deal with his porn use, and then they can begin to deal with the root cause of the problem.
You sound relatively knowledgeable about the problem. I wonder what it would be like if we looked at somethings that I think Husbands and Wives MUST learn to understand about each other, not in the way that our culture dictates but in a new, face on way. What if they both knew the basics of the other's needs, having been taught in new married couple's classes, by a no nonsense old granny that is not afraid of just saying it. What would it be like if the husband knew that his wife needed affection, affirmations, and touching and how often? What would it be like if the wife knew that the husband thinks of sex about every 6 minutes, every waking hour. What if she knew that if he had not been bugging her in a few days, well maybe this time she'd need to get something going?
What if she knew that men are culturalized to not disclose their fears and struggles, but to just "Man UP"! I just can not imagine what it would be like to have six or seven toddlers running around, needing love and nurturing.
OTOH, perhaps the husband is working in a place where some of the women routinely just wear their shirts to work, or otherwise behave in a seductive manner.
I am reminded of the talks I had with the Missionaries where they mentioned a passage, "And the Constitution shall hang by a thread ...". Well, perhaps the LDS church is the solution to just lots of our problems. Perhaps a frank, loving and forgiving approach to societies problems is long overdue.
They rescued me, and if I can be saved ...
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Not in my experience. Not even close.
Nope, I think we have ya on that one. It is the way we network and communicate. To not gossip is against our natures.
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Though I can not remember his name, upon getting an Oscar or something, this man stood at the Mike and said that he was really greatful and that his award took a lot of effort by him and those around him in support. He then said that "Hollywood wants to make us prostitutes and it takes a lot of effort to resist the seduction.
I do not remember if it was Redford, or Glen Ford, or who it was. The girls I mentioned, I remember from a very early age, when they were first in the Mickey Mouse club. Poor Annette Funichello was one of the few that seemed to stay pretty straight.
I don't know if you can blame the parents or the producers or who, really. I just think it is all sad. That's it, I'm sticking by what I said.
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Well....let's just set the record straight. Men gossip as much as women do.
That was one of the first lessons I learned on my mission. Lol.And women use porn. Perhaps the numbers aren't as high, but the numbers are growing, alarmingly so. (And it's happening with younger populations which is alarming too.)
Women act out sexually probably as much as men but they act out differently....even if they are using online methods. For example, they would visit chat rooms or engage in flirtatious sexual conversations rather than go to the visual source first. Guys want the orgasm, women want the connection.
I'm not sure what to say about the comparison of porn use to having an affair. From all the research I've done on porn problems/sexual acting out, there is quite a large range of behaviors and lots of in between stuff that could very well be considered "cheating" even if it didn't involve intercourse with another person. So, I really think each case is different and I hope bishop's and stake presidents view it that way.
Maybe you can weigh in on this scenario. Let's say the husband uses porn multiple times a week for a period of 15 yrs while neglecting his wife emotionally and sexually. Let's add some manipulations, deception, and resentment in there just for fun. Now, let's say the wife hits a breaking point and sleeps with a coworker because she finally felt wanted and nurtured. Who is more at fault here? But if you ask the husband, he'd tell you that the wife's sin was far worse. If you ask the wife, her indulgence was once compared to years of similar but safer indulgence. And if it wasn't for the porn using husband, she'd probably never have done it.
Yes, and the LDS have the opportunity to approach this sin from a healing direction and not a punitive one. If you look at the deepest of human needs and how they get met or do not get met, I think there is ample opportunity to break new ground.
In every christian church I was involved in, revelation of such a sin lead to shunning, explulsion and punishment with prejudice. AND, I think that the people who trumpet the loudest about certain issues are very likely to be fighting them, themselves. The hysteria of denial is really powerful.
While I am neither psychologist, nor criminal investigator, I think that masturbation is a result of un met needs so deep that few know of them. Neglect, the feeling of being unloved and a whole constelation of issues contribute. I am not a fan of disfellowship and punishment.
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Indeed. It more surprised me than offended me, the other examples, off hand, I can think of 'butt shots' are from Dances with Wolves, and Wild Wild West both of which are PG-13. It's simply not something I would have expected to see in a PG movie.
If you look at Hollywood and some of the things that Disney has produced over the years... They have contributed to the ruination of people's lives. Look at Britney Spears, Linsey Lohan, and that western singer's daughter. All these young people have trouble because of the leadership of Disney.
Then look at "Lion King". Some sophomoric kid slipped the word "SEX" into the film.
I won't bother seeing "Brave", I don't think.
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MY MOM JUST DIDNT CALL ME A BABY BUT TOLD ME I BELONG IN PAMPERS AGAIN look people heard her call me a baby in mcdonalds and tell me that she was going to get me diapers and a crib for what i did. i have witnessess dont you think that would help with soical servcies. its not fair it was only ketchup the people in front of us were old like in 60s they wouldnt even know it was on there clothes if my mom didnt say anything.no one got hurt. i dont want to sound like a whinny baby cause im not . she had to pay 45 bucks for the clothes i ruined but that was her choice. what gets me NO OTHER MOM WOULD TELL ME THAT I SHOULD BE IN DIAPERS AND NEED A BOTTLE ONLY MINE DOES THAT. thats how un cool she is.. IT WAS ONLY MCDONALDS NO PLACE FANCY AND IT WAS KETCHUP. her telling everyone im a baby and stuff was foul and abunch of lies. like i said she took away my x box and games and I pod. she wont let me take drivers ed in school saying im to immature to drive.
on the car ride home she is screaming and me and my brother. telling us we made her look bad as a parent that we behaved like a bunch of toddlers. God hates me thats what it is.
Well, if you do not learn some modicum of social graces by sitting in your crib looking through the bars, there are always the steel ones where ones who do not learn to act correctly when the police are no longer amused by your behavior.
If I had done something like that, I would have been beaten within an inch of my life.
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No, wait, what movie is this?
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I'm even going to brave the heels tomorrow, pretty good for an old, I think. I love the dress; unpretentious and conservative, that's me.
One of the Sister Missionaries called me tonight and I related that it had taken a long time to get out of the Muslim mind set, and much to my surprise she said, "I feel your pain". Wow.
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Ripfoster's discussion in the book club section about a certain book has triggered a response in me, that I wanted to bring here for separate discussion.
Re: porn -- do we as a culture have different standards and responses for men and women using porn?
Of course, I don't believe God has a double standard. I'm not even sure I believe the church and its leaders have a double standard (though it seems they have spent a lot more time and energy preaching to men against visual porn than preaching to women about written porn).
What I'm wondering about is more cultural/personal. I recall a blog entry on a feminist blog where the blogger described a dinner party with a handful of Mormon couples. The discussion turned to porn and the women in the party decided that porn use was automatic grounds for divorce. When pressed, they even decided that porn use was worse than adultery and a stronger cause for divorce than an affair. Would we ever say the same thing about erotic romance novels?
If a group of priesthood holders who got together monthly to play video games decided at one meeting that they were going to check out some "nude art," would our response be, "I think it is disgusting, but hopefully after a few picture they will realize they are in the wrong and decide to go back to playing games." or would our response be more visceral?
If there is a double standard, does it have a basis in reality? Do men respond differently to visual porn than women respond to written porn?
Wow, only in the LDS church could we have a discussion like this! I am shocked!
But in a good way. Next week I will see part of a documentary being made by a young LDS woman. I hope in time that the LDS church will be the first to drag this conversation out in the open, and some frank, loving and healing discussions can happen.
I know a powerful, loving and spiritual couple who are grappling with this right now, and through tears so abundant that none of us could see or talk well, we vowed to help each other deal with all this.
I do not think that any man or women gets involved in this stuff by evil intention, and Lord knows that there is sufficient provocation thrust in our faces every single day. One of the things I noticed when I returned from my trip to Kenya and Israel, is that when I walked into the terminal in the US from the plane is that I felt inundated by things that set me back.
It is my hope that in the future, no marriage will end because of a struggle with it; that in stead couples will have the tools to prevent, deal with and end it.
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OK, I must warn you that this is all supposed to be in fun; no insults intended.
So, I got my "official Mormon Women's uniform in the mail yesterday. It's the Emma in Grey, and it actually fit me! So, it is not substantial enough for gardening, but it is very pretty. I was worried that since I am doughnut waisted, it might look a bit off, but in the last two weeks with all my riding and dieting, the doughnut went away!
This dress will like your garments under it, other wise it will look insubstantial and might like show through. So I will just wear a T top and petticoat under it.
Now I just have to go find the shoes somewhere. Here is their claimer.
"Our modest dresses are designed to meet LDS (Mormon) modesty standards by covering the shoulders with sleeves, covering the back and chest, and covering the legs at least to the knee. Thanks for visiting"!
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Just had something happen. Maybe I won't go near a Mormon church again, except for the one I attend. What was I thinking?
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Lately i have struggled somewhat... I dont know how to feel and please dont judge me. I just got sealed to my wife back in April after 1 year of marriage... It was one of the best things in the world!!! Whats been bothering me is that every other christian religion believes Christ is our God.. but we do not?? We believe god the father is our god right??? So at times i have felt guilty even in my prayers for not giving enough recognition to Christ for what he did for me... He died for my sins but am i supposed to thank god the father for that? I thank god the father in my prayers for the attonement and the sacrifice Christ made for me. But somehow i feel that this attonement doesnt recieve enough of my focus because i pray to god the father not jesus christ.... why am i feeling this way.??? is this wrong??? what do i do?? please any thoughts? Has anyone else ever felt this way?
Gosh, I was just studying this. John 20:17, Matt 25:40, Matt 12:49, Matt 12:50. According to those scriptures, Jesus Christ refers to us as his brothers and sisters.
For me, it is very easy to see Heavenly Father as the ONE God, the most high.
I've been struggling in my prayer too, and finally decided that what ever I did, Heavenly Father would know what I meant. I trust Heavenly Father.
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Call ahead and ask permission as to what you could/should wear?
Oh, sorry. No, I actually did not. We just went. And when I went to Indianapollis to care for a friend who had cancer, I called to find out where the Ward was, but that was all. If I am traveling, I always try to attend church on Sunday.
I suppose the anxiety was getting to me.
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Did what, travel alone? No, I did not. I did take day trips and that is how I came to the Kirtland Visitor's center. It would be nice to have someone to travel with ...
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To many bad influences in this world that rip apart our relationships with our husbands, fathers, mothers and children.
Last night my wfe was watching a new murder mystery series on tv that reenacted the story. She walked up stairs and I continued to watch it. She came down stairs and told her, "you do not want to watch this, it is to dark and seedy that is bad for the soal" for once, she agreed with me WITHOUT arguing...amen!
One by one, Heavenly Father has taken things out of my life and when they are gone, I do not even miss them often. "Line upon Line, precept upon precept. I've grappled with thoughts of suicide a lot, but never did because I knew it would hurt those around me. As a Mormon, those thoughts are greatly diminished.
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I've been to Halfway, Oregon. They don't dress any differently than people anywhere else.
So, no need to call the Bishop and ask permission or anything? I am a little uneasy simply because I will travel alone. I did it when I went to Provo in March, so ... Thank you. :)
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Should be fine... but I'm a shoes snob - this dress calls for one of them stilettos.
Oh my goodness! Well If I parked my car close to the building, and didn't walk around much, and was careful on stairs ... Ok well, I did look at their web page and I think they do not sell shoes. Perhaps they are the dyable shoes but I can not imagine where one would get the matching dye. So many questions, so many posibilities. :)
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Ooooohhh! Those Emma shoes are super cute!
Ditz alert! I had not even thought of the shoes! I can still wear low heels. I wonder?
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I wish you'd added the smiley icons in the first post. :)
I like their clothes. I wish I had the figure to wear some of them.
Well, it does appear that the dresses are for the um, little people. :) I am not sure if I can wear it either, but I liked it so much ... they do have 30 day return.
Maybe this will be added incentive to lose 30 lbs?
Use what in my oil change?
in General Discussion
Posted
One of the members suggested I use something in my oil to cure the clacking in my 2001 Corolla with 145,000 miles on it. I forgot what he said, and can no longer find the thread. Would you please tell me again?