Arnolt

I'm not willing to trust him anyway. He knows how to handle with words and how to rule someone normal over by his impressing ability of raping a normal sentence and his attempt to let one feel as an idiot in comparison to a man from Ivory Cost who maybe has received the priesthood of this church. He should take his medicin, as an American would say. But let him speak for himself... he's so good in words, so impressing good, full of wisdom and rightness, et en francais il est plus parfait certainement. Un miracle de Dieus.

True.

Yes, you are right. And I am impressed and thankful about your words concerning your mother and that 99 per cent of North America would refuse to live the way she did. Yes, we are very well off as we're typing on our note books or computers... Comment est-il le temps avec vous ? En Hambourg, il pleut...

She loves you. As anyone loves you. And perhaps she likes the way you look up to her as you do by your avatar in that strange kind of way that might be guessed a bit unusual for a man... May I ask you one question: are you gay? This is only to make things becoming clearer for me, because getting "sealed" in your profile doesn't give me the answer as I am hesitating to believe in your honest intention here...

Well, I can't see the guy is an idiot as well as I can't see " the Salt Lake Tribulation is a rag and that its comment sections are the stinking bowels of hell". I just want to remember that there were so many fanatic priests in the history of mankind who were speaking in a similar way like you are doing right now here. And I'm not sure if they always were completely being impressed only by the Spirit of God... When the missionaries came here half a year ago, they told me about some news about tighing. People who are unemployed and only receive less money from the state in form of unemployment insurance (Germany) or social aid (England) only should pay the tenth from the (monthly) amount that rests them when they have subtracted their rent, energy costs, and their monthly budget for food und things necessary. This means the amount one is disposing of without need of using it for existential use. And the next question: What is gross or net? I get an unemployability pension (here in Germany it is not a benefit but a part of the social insurance system) and fifty per cent of the amount I have to pay for health insurance and long term care insurance is supported by the state with fifty percent. So my gross is aprox. 1100,- Euros and my net approx 980,- Euros. After have subtracted my costs for rent an energy, internet, phone and TV, water and wastewater levy, and food for the month there doesnt rest much. If I payed the tenth from my gross income, it certainly would be too much and I couldn't get along. If it was in my discretion, I could give monthly about 30,- to max. 50,- Euros as a donation for the church. This of course wouldn't come up with the tenth based on my gross income. Well, Vort, now you might more a bit guess where the problem results from and why those questions are posed. For me it has been a quite important question and as a result I've been hesitating in getting further involved with the church. It would only result in distrust if there were members of the church here in my ward who payed more than me and insisted on your point of view. Sorry, I don't need that kind of struggle and stress surely facing me when I was among them. Thus, there should be more official norms to quit down the uncertainty and to make interested people like me more willing to make one step more in direction to the church.

And this might lead us to the further question, which content and worth their religion could have, except their triumphs in moments of laughter when their preachers feed them with delicious but poisoned chocolate.

I agree. And Charly Chaplin has given another answer; so I would see it like this: God made it his way, and, as the end of the scene shows, hit the planet out of his hands...

Welcome, traveler from 23rd century!

Let's discuss it later... grant me to let the curtain fall down for today, it's late in the night here.

22nd Century Man: Use our latest developed weapon: The gamma ray impact blaster, that brings their weapons and communication out of order immediately so that they will calm down very quickly and say hello to you again. And away with your old fashioned super-duper, it's not of any worth more. Shall we offer you some more interesting war weapons... like American television sitcoms implemented into the heads of your enemies...?

PS... only one example: How would we think about the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when it was never been invented and used as that kind of ultimative weapon against Japan? I mean, science and empowering mankind to do things like that will change our moral or ethic status and change us to better spirits later as well.

1) Yes I do. And don't forget the moral development. 2) I wouldn't be sure I did. And who can claim to know about the will of God exactly? There are so many advises within the words of the prophet that makes me sure that we should perform our intelligence to a higher level and to develop our moral status.

To be honest, many could drink here gallons of beer and still would not get confused by words of yours. So do I. And remember mathematics: even small numbers make a big number if you count them together. It's the same with low-level drinks like beer... on the other hand I bet that five or six beers (half a liter each) makes a cowboy falling off from his saddle... ... while we're going home straightly.

Completely irrelevant? Welcome to Stone Age, when book printing was not still invented and the holy scriptures were not even in the idea of mankind. The saving of our souls correlates with our intelligence and abilities here in our time of being, and progress in all kinds of knowledge, science, quantum mechanics, gravity, relativity, recognizing our universe or even multiverse... and many other things should not influence our eternal being or should be irrelevant to the saving of our souls? The everlasting development starts here: In moral changing, by things going to improve ourselves in this way, by seeing how things work and not to declare them as a result of witchcraft. This changes our mind, this changes our spirit, this is what might bring us nearer and more similar to God. Wasn't Joseph Smith, the prophet, a man who declared science and knowledge and intelligence as important as our faith? (D&C 93: 36 - 37 / 130: 18 - 19 / Abr 3: 22)

I don't think that the church rejects all those things. But they should get implemented into the doctrine. And not to be ignored and make the church old fashioned and overcomed in one hundred years or maybe earlier. By the way... you might try to make me confused and change your words from black to white... I won't get confused, only drunk. But not by your wisdom, but more by that German beer I'm drinking right now.

This might give me hope... not I'm losing my religion... By the way... would you give me more understanding of your statement? What has "GPS" to do with it in the meaning of witchcraft? And what is witchcraft else but an old fashioned word for things that work while we can't see how they work? A created word by the abominable church that feared to lose influence and power as it was ruled and reigned by no one else but Satan. And who understands the effects of relativity...? I dare to say not even 0,0001 per cent of mankind... ...including me. But I'm working on it (D&C 130: 18 - 19)

I've learned to read between the lines. And I quite often read a book from the end up to the beginning. Not when I was younger, because all those enthralling books I once was reading were too expensive to give me the answer before midnight.

Because you seem to deny the progress of mankind by science and research. And remember the past, when there exactly this happened and one abominable church brought down many attempts of men to bring our civilization more forward.

Half an answer... so you seem to prefer stagnation of knowledge on the one hand and to receive all his grandeur on the other hand...?

And what makes you sure about this? Leading men and women to God means to lead them to the truth that God grants us to receive at the time of being worth of it and at the time of being on an intellectuel level that allows God to give us scientific knowledge and more. Not spiritual salvation alone might be HIS intention, but to bring us forward to rule the laws of nature and then to proof him that we are worth of becoming nearer to HIM than any other species.

This might be true. But I can hardly except that a progressive church that claims prophets to bring truth and divine words to men can ignore the facts that science has brought to us. The prophets of this one church have to bring recent knowledge and new sights resulting from science and research into a new and for the believers understandable seeing. Otherwise they would allow the same mistakes becoming happen as in the past before the LDS was founded. They would be of non use, because they only would keep things in the old manner but ignoring any divine news. This is the church of the living gospel and the church of living prophets and the church of everlasting truth. And not the church of stagnation and ignorance and inanity. à la votre, Jenamarie!

You have quoted Bertold Brecht. I didn't know about his "Stories of Mr. Keuner". Where did you know it from? Is he so popular or well known in the United States? So it gives me an answer about that phenomenon that I have still in my memory (when I went across that "Heaven and Hell" game). One adult might have written the words above for any reason. Not exactly in the words of Brecht, but without "einen", simply "Du brauchst Gott" (you need God). Perhaps it's only our personal view or interpretation that makes things seem strange.

Thank you for your posts, Martain. There is now so much information given to me that first I will have to read all the sicnificant posts again and also the recommended chapters in the holy scriptures (2 Nephi) and D&C. And thank you for offering to send me a book. Do you mean the Book of Mormon? I have it here and so it wouldn't be necessary to send another one to me.

My personal experience: The missionaries were always exactly on time. Neither a minute earlier nor later. I think they were at best predestinated for driving busses or trains without delay. :) PS Booker looks even more white than many Germans do...