the_jason

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -- Hebrews 11:1 "And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true." --Alma 32:21 Faith, in my mind, is more important for one to obtain than is knowledge. If we have knowledge of things, there is no room left for progression. We become stagnant and begin to fall away. There's nothing left to aspire to. Faith, however, requires a constant search for truth and knowledge, but never fully obtaining it. It allows spiritual progression and the ability to get closer to our Heavenly Father. Not only that, but it's impossible to gain a perfect knowledge in this life. There are many things Father has not revealed to us and will not reveal to us until we have been faithful and endured to the end. Only those who've obeyed God's commandments to the best of their ability and received the required ordinances will know these mysteries.

PC, that is a great video. I'm not sure if that's what the poster was looking for, but it really puts into perspective how difficult, nearly impossible, it would have been for ANYONE, even educated scholars, to have written the Book of Mormon. It only could have been done with the help and guidance of Divinity. Thanks for the link.

As I said in my original post, this list is my own interpretation. It may not apply to your family, but it applies to mine. Also, it is still a commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, regardless if a family has children or not. Doctrine is doctrine and does not change based on familial status. Lastly, there is an opportunity for families who do not have children in this life to have children in the Celestial Kingdom. People forget that. When it is spoken that marriage is required in order to receive the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, that does not only apply to this life. Individuals who do not have an opportunity to marry in this life will certainly have an opportunity in the next life. While my list is not sanctioned by Church or recognized as an official document, every point is found in the Proclamation, and is therefore doctrine. Please realize that doctrines are eternal and continue beyond our mortal state.

"For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward." -- D&C 58:26 The purpose of having a prophet on the earth is to speak God's will concerning the church and to teach and clarify doctrine. The prophets and other leaders are not called to instruct in every little circumstance. We've been taught the doctrine. Now the Lord expects us to use our common sense and the Holy Ghost, after much prayer and pondering, to make these decisions for ourselves. Not everyone will receive the answer, so it's not for any of us to say what is too vulgar or too immoral or anything of the like. If your purpose is to gain information on doctrine, I'm not sure there is one answer. If your purpose is to know for your own standards, study, pray, and let the Spirit guide you.

Unfortunately I missed the WW Training due to an ankle injury. I plan on watching it online, as I'm sure it was excellent. They usually are.

I agree, Darrel. Shadow's understanding of the doctrine doesn't sound like it's from the church I'm a part of. It's unfortunate that some people pass of their own personal beliefs as official doctrine.

I've never seen anything that describes what you are talking about, nor do I believe it exists. Translation of the Book of Mormon is not something a person can take upon themself. There is but one qualification to do what Joseph Smith did: to be called of God.

To which I refer to my previous post. If the Bible has been altered then that would also mean that the 5 books of Moses were altered. I thought I was specific enough. I apologize if you didn't understand me.

Unless you have the original Greek Bible than you have a version that has been tampered with by kings, scholars, pastors, etc. Even the King James version, which is the version chosen by our leaders, is incomplete and imperfect. The eight Article of Faith says "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." Joseph Smith was in the midst of translating the Bible when he was killed and, therefore, unable to complete the translation. This is the reason for the use of the KJV in the church today. So, STS, in answer to your question, find me a version of the Holy Bible that isn't an editorial or abridgement, or that hasn't been altered in some way.

Because it was lost with the Great Apostasy. God called Joseph Smith to restore the Church, and if the Church is God's church it must include his authority. Thus, the restoration of the priesthood John the Baptist restored the Aaronic Priesthood. Peter, James, and John restored the Melchizedek Priesthood. We don't know, and don't need to know. If we are faithful, God will make known to us all the mysteries of the kingdom. It doesn't say that. Read again. Baptism for the dead gives all people the opportunity to accept the gospel. If they do, they will be part of the first resurrection.

Just remember that it will not be you who converts people. Your calling is to preach the gospel, not to convert. You are a tool whom the Lord uses to bring the gospel to the people. Once you've done that, it's the Spirit who converts.

I introduced this to my family last night during Family Home Evening. They were excited. My wife is going to frame it and put it where we will see it regularly. I think this just became our family motto.

The Church has a booklet called For the Strength of Youth that outlines these very standards for its' youth. Since we expect the same things of our adults as we do our youth, this booklet applies to every member of the church. Here's the link:http://www.lds.org/Static%20Files/PDF/Manuals/ForTheStrengthOfYouth_36550_eng.pdf I hope this helps.

That's true doctrine, right there.

For me, this is happening this year, and will no doubt happen again in the future. This is why I'm not a fan of party politics. Too often, people vote for their party instead of the right candidate. They are too consumed in pride with regard to their own party that they fail to see what's really happening. If parties were abolished people would have to vote for the actual candidates, and I believe this will put the right people in office more often. More people will agree with and support the people in office, and more good will be done.

I'm the opposite. I support candidates who meet my standards the closest. PC, are you telling me that if a member of your party believed everything contrary to what you believe, and that a member of another party agreed with your beliefs entirely, you'd still vote for your party member? How is that democracy? I'm tempted to vote for a candidate in the opposite party or not vote at all. The candidates in my own party do not measure up.

I wasn't asking for everyone's score, but you can surely give it if you want to. The purpose of this post was mostly to share with you how I've applied the Proclamation and invite you to either do the same or come up with your own application. Either way, thank you all for your replies. Also, notice how there is nothing in the 17 points or in the Proclamation that says that children have to practice the teachings of their parents in order to be with them for eternity. This is another subject entirely, but the responsibility of a family being eternal rest solely with the parents. Wayward children are still sealed to their parents for eternity as long as the parents are obedient. In other words, we can be an eternal family and meet all 17 points even if our children have strayed. Food for thought.

Yesterday, one of our high councilors gave a good talk in Sacrament meeting. It was about families. He talked about The Family: A Proclamation to the World and how we can used it as a checklist to see how our family is doing. I started thinking how great an idea that was and have been pondering ever since. I've come up with a checklist. Most of us have heard of The 17 points of the True Church, which was developed several years ago. Well, I've titled my checklist the 17 points of an Eternal Family. All 17 points come from the Proclamation. Let me say, first, that I do not wish to offend anyone. Many members of this forum have broken families, incomplete families, or no family at all. Please accept my apology if any offense is taken. The doctrine of the Proclamation is still true. Here's my interpretation of it. 17 Points of an Eternal Family Our family has a mother and a father, married legally Our family is sealed for eternity in the temple Our family includes children Mom and Dad love each other Mom and Dad love the children Mom and Dad keep their temple covenants Mom and Dad teach the children correct principles Children have what they need physically and spiritually Children love and help one another Our family keeps the commandments Our family obeys the laws of the land Dad goes to work and provides for the family Mom keeps the household organized and operating properly Dad presides in the home, using the priesthood righteously Mom teaches the children to love others and be good people Mom and Dad are equal partners Our family is happy

Perhaps that's where you erred. There's no such thing as perfect faith. Once our faith is perfect it becomes knowledge and is no longer faith. I came up with a quote that I live by. "Fake it 'til you make it." The best way to know if what the prophets say is true is to live their teachings. Even if you don't know if their teachings are true, live them anyway. If living the gospel doesn't bless you, then the prophets are wrong. If living the gospel blesses you immensely, then the prophets are called of God. There's no in between. They can't be half right. There is more to faith than just inner belief. There's also actions that are required. Live the gospel, pray to get an answer, then live the gospel some more. Your faith will undoubtedly increase.

Wow! Funky has a soft, caring side. Who'd a thunk it? Seriously, though, I'm proud of ya, kid. You did the right thing by telling her how you feel. Your Heavenly Father is pleased.

I wish when people explain the purpose of the garment that they'd mention the spiritual purpose rather than the physical purpose. Elder Marriott mentioned his garments protecting him in the boating accident. While that is true, it is not the most important reason for wearing the garment. Steve Young talked about taking his garments off when he played football, but didn't mention the true purpose either. The real purpose of the garment is a symbol of the covenants that are made in the temple. Not a symbol to the world, but a symbol to yourself. They serve as a reminder of the sacredness of the covenants and your commitment to live up to them. People don't mention this enough and only speak of the physical reasons. This gives the impression of the garment being "magical underwear."

Are you friggin' kidding me?? She'd rather kill a baby than give it to someone who really wants it and will take good care of it? That's sad, and very, very selfish. You can tell her Jason said so.

Positive. I was referring to today, since your story about your barber's friend is today. The prophet spoke very clearly that anyone in the church who is known to be practicing polygamy is excommunicated. I believe the prophet.

Welcome, jelly.

The Church has never bowed to pressure from society to change their doctrines or policies. Have you forgotten that this is the Lord's church?