HiJolly

Hah. I used to live in Naples, but not the ritzy part of town... More like the red-neck area. Ah, ridin' my bike to the Winn-Dixie... Sweating all day... 4th of July on the Gulf coast, fireworks off the pier... Fish fry get-togethers... Scabies... Such memories... HiJolly

Actually, I believe the average was more like 125 years, but I suppose I could be wrong, too. All those Pauline letters were certainly less than 30 years after the death of the Savior... I love your example of the stories from the Gma & Gpa. VERY EXCELLENT POINT. That's why there are 4 Gospels - and each of them is different, even if the original sources were basically Mark and Q. Still, it doesn't mean they are wrong, just like your Gpa & Gma weren't lying. The difference in perspective gives richness and enables a more balanced interpretation of what is being said, IMO. If we look to literal details in mutually exclusive black and white, I think we miss the point. Look to the message. Look to the agreements between them. Without the meeting minutes from the Vatican, I doubt we can know (barring direct revelation on the point, which is certainly a possibility!). I suppose the ones that didn't make the cut were 'heretical' in some way. Have you read Bart Ehrman's book on this topic? Very good, but not so good if you don't have a testimony first... For these sorts of things, I look to the Savior's comment found in the NT in John 7:17 -- If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Work it out in the DOING of it. See what the Spirit tells you. Then you'll know. Because this life is a 'school'. We have lessons that we must learn before we return to Heavenly Father. Some are set in stone (due to pre-earth life situations that we can't remember) and some are conditional due to what we do here, how we do things here. I think it's a combination, and we rarely know why all of it happens until after the lesson is taught/received. Only my opinion, of course. Nice questions!! HiJolly

Ok, if it's an issue of medication/life, then all bets are off. Even though a Mormon can't go to the temple if they are drinking coffee, if a doctor prescribes it as a specific treatment of a health condition, then that member can still attend the temple. It's in the hands of the Bishop and Stake President, but the ones I work with would allow that. And yes, the *membership* of the Church frowns, generally, on caffeine, but the Church itself does not condemn it. Did you hear about the study on the news today that caffeine increases the chance of miscarriage 2x? Interesting... The gold statue on top of most LDS temples is a statue of the angel Moroni, not Jesus. It is because he was the "angel in the midst of Heaven, bringing the everlasting gospel" (paraphrased from the book of Revelation in the NT). Special garments, as a indicator of covenant with God, were worn by the Israelites and still are by Jews. FYI. I'm thinking of the blue, white and tasselled prayer shawl thingy (don't know the name of it, sorry). HiJolly

Having now read the article, I would just clarify that Van's point seems to be that we have no evidence that it was Josephs idea. He conceeds that it may have been, but there is no scholarly evidence to support that view. HiJolly

I haven't read it, but in general I can say I have been very pleased with Van's work. I agree with him in most of his views, though not all. HiJolly

Search, Ponder and Pray (a song for children): 1. I love to read the holy scriptures, And, ev’ry time I do, I feel the Spirit start to grow within my heart— A testimony that they’re true. 2. So, prayerfully I’ll read the scriptures Each day my whole life through. I’ll come to understand. I’ll heed the Lord’s command And live as he would have me do. Chorus Search, ponder, and pray Are the things that I must do. The Spirit will guide, and, deep inside, I’ll know the scriptures are true. Words: Jaclyn Thomas Milne, b. 1949. © 1986 IRI HiJolly

...and so you see, we are all allowed our various belief and interpretations... ...and the confusion continues, I suppose... HiJolly

Premise #1 is incorrect. Therefore, the entire logical chain is invalid. Christ Himself forgave the Roman soldiers who shed His blood. Therefore, the shedding of innocent blood can be forgiven, as per scripture. Also, the application of the view of premise #1 to society as a whole is invalid, based on the doctrinal statement it is based on (D&C 132), which is addressing individuals. HiJolly

Nope. HiJolly

The Christian heart wants to be compassionate and 'save' people from terrible circumstances. This is a good thing. King Benjamin gave probably the best sermon I've ever read about this. Elizabeth Smart's mom gave the best sermon ever as to why this MUST be tempered by reason, logic and street smarts. She felt GUILTY that she had oodles of money, whilst hundred of people in SLC went homeless. She would go downtown and bring homeless men to her home to work on various fix-it projects and the like, so she could pay them cash for the work, and thus help them. One such man, came back later and kidnapped her 14-y.o. daughter and you probably know the rest of the story. There is a reason we must be wise as serpents. So to speak. It is not easy. HiJolly

I don't think so. The Church has never said they were. Though I do think they both had equal opportunities to choose for themselves what they would think, what they would do. No, I don't think so, and the Church clearly teaches that He was not, but that He existed from all eternity. I don't know. I think the Church doesn't teach that he was a man as we are, and hasn't for many, many years. Back when such things were taught, it was done as opinion, not doctrine, as far as I know. The Church teaches that He is one of three Gods --- The first being Heavenly Father, Jesus being the second, and the Holy Ghost being the third. The Church clearly teaches that these three are One (though many times the comment has been made, that they are "one in purpose, not in body"). We don't believe in the Trinity. We believe in Three seperate and distinct individuals. ...And that they are One. That is what the Church teaches. Joseph smith made some statements that might lead one to think Jesus grew into Godhood long before the Earth existed, but those comments are not doctrine of the Church, as far as I know. Various people in the Church have opinions either way, but the Church scriptures are clear: Jesus is and always was God. We believe that there are a few differing things that are sometimes called the "Holy Spirit". One -- The Holy Ghost (third member of the Godhead) is sometimes called the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Two -- The Holy Spirit can be seen as the influence of God in man. Three -- The Holy Spirit can sometimes mean what we LDS call the "light of Christ". So I think generally speaking we are fairly fluid in what that means. Most Mormons believe God is married to Heavenly Mother, though we do not typically speak of it. We believe in Genesis it describes that Adam and Eve were formed in the image of God. We don't know much about it, except that some members/leaders have claimed that it is the truth. We are not obligated to believe it. Yikes. Maybe. I don't know. Who can say? We do believe He has a physical body, even now. The Bible seems to say so, and we agree with that. He is a fallen angel. No. We can inherit what He has been given by the Father, but we will never be His equal. HiJolly

Cool! Thanks for sharing! HiJolly

Mormon.org LDSBlogs.org - Mormon Archipelago: Gateway to the Bloggernacle and list of LDS and Mormon Blogs en.fairmormon.org farms.byu.edu HiJolly

Just one point, Stampede. According to JS, Intelligence is eternal and co-equal with God. I don't know how it could be considered 'learned'. HiJolly

It would imply that, if you were limiting your reasoning and thought to the manifest universe/multiverse. I'm not sure God is so limited. Practical answer: I dunno. Your assumptions make no sense when applied to a God in the Judeo/Christian sense. Perhaps you are referring to a demi-god, and if so, pls direct your question to some believer in demi-gods (Hindu, perhaps?). Who believes god is only the god of this world? Certainly not Mormons. Yup. You see, it makes no sense. That's good because Mormons don't believe what you have been saying. Who led you (in error) to believe such things? I'd question everything else they've been telling you, were I you! Mormons believe God was God from eternity, and into the eternities. Somebody really messed you up! Nope. I'm going to stop now, 'cause all this is just nuts. You totally need to learn what Mormons believe. All this stuff you've been talking about is garbage. You're welcome! HiJolly

I've sung it many times. For the text, I googled "wexford carol". HiJolly

No, I'm not saying that. So much for discussion and understanding. HiJolly

Yay indeed. We had two babies born in our ward last week. So exciting. Yeah, that's unjustified and sadly inappropriate. The Terminator was unfeeling and disregarded all human life as worthless. Christ is totally the opposite. It is true that when the Savior returns in glory, the heat of that glory will 'burn' the wicked. That's clear from what the Bible says. But we also know that those so burned will be able to hear the Gospel message in the spirit world, later. What's interesting to me in that regard is what you say next: That's the exact opposite of what is taught by the Church, and sounds really quite evangelical in nature, although to my understanding they believe that the time between the 'rapture' and the final reckoning will be 3 1/2 years, not 1,000 years. We believe that the wicked will be removed, and the righteous (WHICH INCLUDES MANY NON-LDS PEOPLE) will live the 1,000 years together, and Christ will reign on the earth personally over these people and their descendants. Yes, Jesus is a God of love, no doubt about it. I hope you commented on these things to someone in the class, or perhaps a member of the Bishopbric. HiJolly

It seems to me that you are assuming that the Marriott hotel chain is making money off of gambling and porn/alcohol sales. Or do you have evidence to that effect? Not that it would surprise me if Marriott is, I'll grant you that. Are you judging those who choose to do so as hypocritical or wicked? Why? HiJolly

For someone being quite nitpicky on details, you sure are lavishly vague and imprecise when you use the word 'majority'. Would you care to explain the use of that word? The hotel chain, I would argue, makes most of its money by providing rooms for rent. I would guess even the food it sells brings in more $$ than any porn movies they may make available. I'm open to your explaining your position, though. Glad you were teachable on the Mormon Church not owning the hotel chain, that's a good sign. As you can see, though, twice now your starting premise is incorrect, and thus we would be in error by building on such falsehoods. Soon as you provide a valid question, I'll be glad to attempt an answer. HiJolly

That's the "Wexford Carol", it was sung by Shane Warby. Here's the text: Good people all, this Christmas time, Consider well and bear in mind What our good God for us has done, In sending His belovèd Son. With Mary holy we should pray To God with love this Christmas Day; In Bethlehem upon the morn There was a blest Messiah born. The night before that happy tide The noble virgin and her guide Were long time seeking up and down To find a lodging in the town. But mark how all things came to pass: From every door repelled, alas! As long foretold, their refuge all Was but a humble oxen stall. Near Bethlehem did shepherds keep Their flocks of lambs and feeding sheep; To whom God’s angels did appear Which put the shepherds in great fear. “Prepare and go”, the angels said, “To Bethlehem, be not afraid; For there you’ll find, this happy morn, A princely Babe, sweet Jesus born.” With thankful heart and joyful mind, The shepherds went the babe to find, And as God’s angel has foretold, They did our Savior Christ behold. Within a manger He was laid, And by His side the virgin maid Attending to the Lord of Life, Who came on earth to end all strife. HiJolly

I can look it up, Orlando. Give me a day or two. HiJolly

I remember visiting that site probably over 5 years ago. My take on it was, these are people who want to shake up and shock other people. That's the site where LeVey is the original founder, right? Anyway, they do have some truths there about human nature (the natural man) but I found it too self-centered and manipulative to be a place I would visit more than once or twice. Being immersed in the Church as we are, sometimes its nice to be able to contrast our teachings and view with something else. This site left me glad I'm LDS. HiJolly

jadams, You may be correct Biblically speaking, but many in the modern church have likened this to our need in our time. Many who have served missions have reported divine assistance in speaking in foreign tongues. I accept both these forms of speaking in tongues as a witness of the spirit. The witnesses may be of different things, but they are both of God. IMO. HiJolly

Welcome! I am curious -- you must have heard a bunch of negative stuff about the Church. So, why did you decide to read the Book of Mormon? Peace in Christ, HiJolly