Aphrodite
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Posts posted by Aphrodite
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Birth control shouldn't be used to prevent birth. My wife has had it prescribed because of a medical condition she has. She had been taking it long before she met me, even when she was on her mission
You cant just say 'it shouldnt be used'. Everybody's circumstances are different and you do need to prevent having children at certain times to be mature and adult about the circumstances of life. I believe we all have a right to education in this free western world we live in. Especially women. What happens if your husband dies and you have to support a family of a million kids just because your husband was too arrogant and selfish to use birth control? Im going to uni in september to get my degree, my own independance and education, just like the Prophet tells us. That will take 3 years and I do not plan on having children until it is finished, it would be highly irresponsible and very selfish to just 'have a child' before you have prepared adequately for it.
I have no shame in telling people Im on the pill and am enjoying the physical side of our relationship which builds your relationship, expresses love and increases your bond as a married couple. You shouldnt stop just so you dont have children!! That is so outrageously wrong I can't even believe people do it!!!!
Quite frankly I think it is irresponsible to just pop one kid out after another without doing everything you can to provide a stable home and life first. You cant just say, 'oh the lord will provide' if you dont plan and think responsibly first. Thats like living in a tent and saying, 'Oh the Lord will provide us a house' but you're not even looking for one. It wont just land in your lap. You need to do all you can, THEN the Lord will fill in the rest.
If you take birth control to prevent that then it's probably not a good idea.
So, its not a good idea to get an education, work to pay off your debts, build your relationship with your spouse before the kids come along? When we have children, I am in a unique situation. I want to be able to work part time to a) bring in money as in this society we live in 2 incomes are almost essential, and B) I love my job and want to keep my mind active and my life full. However, I probably wont be able to work as there would be no one to look after the children but me. So thats that, but in the meantime, my husband and I are working to pay off our debts which we wouldnt be able to do if I wasnt working, which means we'd be saddled with it for years and years, I wouldnt have an education which would not be a good example to our kids. So, We are working towards a building a stable home for ourselves and our children. We look forward to children so much, but we know it is not the right time. I just loathe this church attitude of have them as soon as possible, NO MATTER WHAT! Dont be responsible, don't think, dont plan, just pop them out!
That is such a medieval attitude. We need to use common sense, and prayer. The former is something I think a lot of church members seem to lack. -
Birth control shouldn't be used to prevent birth. My wife has had it prescribed because of a medical condition she has. She had been taking it long before she met me, even when she was on her mission
You cant just say 'it shouldnt be used'. Everybody's circumstances are different and you do need to prevent having children at certain times to be mature and adult. I believe we all have a right to education in this free western world we live in. Especially women. What happens if your husband dies and you have to support a family of a million kids just because your husband was too arrogant and selfish to use birth control? Im going to uni in september to get my degree, my own independance and education, just like the Prophet tells us. That will take 3 years and I do not plan on having children until it is finished, it would be highly irresponsible and very selfish to just 'have a child' before you have prepared adequately for it.
Quite frankly I think it is irresponsible to just pop one kid out after another without doing everything you can to provide a stable home. You cant just say, 'oh the lord will provide' if you dont plan and think responsibly first. Thats like living in a tent and saying, 'Oh the Lord will provide us a house' but you're not even looking for one.
If you take birth control to prevent that then it's probably not a good idea.
So, its not a good idea to get an education, work to pay off your debts, build your relationship with your spouse before the kids come along? When we have children, I am in a unique situation. I want to be able to work part time to a) bring in money as in this society we live in 2 incomes are almost essential, and B) I love my job and want to keep my mind active and my life full. However, I probably wont be able to work as there would be no one to look after the children but me. So thats that, but in the meantime, my husband and I are working to pay off our debts which we wouldnt be able to do if I wasnt working, which means we'd be saddled with it for years and years, I wouldnt have an education which would not be a good example to our kids. So, We are working towards a building a stable home for ourselves and our children. We look forward to children so much, but we know it is not the right time. I just loathe this church attitude of have them as soon as possible, NO MATTER WHAT! Dont be responsible, just pop them out! That is such a medieval attitude. We need to use common sense, and prayer. The former is something
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Gosh, I hate to be so blunt, but perhaps you should distance yourself from the situation. Your family obviously doesn't have the same standards that you do and it's causing you stress. Just focus on your life and don't worry about what they do. They are all adults and have the right to make their own decisions, no matter how bad. Who are you to tell them how to live? You can't change anyone.
though frustraiting, i've been fairly well at accepting that a person can run their house the way they want
Its hard to distance yourself when you go round there to visit and have all these things staring you in the face. It is hard as they are your family and you just want whats best for them. I suppose Im being told to let them get on with it. I know thats the right thing to do its just upsetting I suppose to see your family and family home sort of defiled in my opinion.
As an aside, although some ppl might find me hypocritical-I actually dont think theres anything wrong with spending the night at a boyfriends house if you are all members and sleep on the sofa or wherever. Sometimes you have no choice like I said earlier. If some of my boyfriends didnt stay over we wouldnt have had as relationship. But my parents, well, Dad really had common sense and knew we did too so that was fine.
When I was single, me and my friends used to meet round one of our friends houses as his parents were away a lot. Once it was just me and two of my friends who were lads after everyone else had gone home. As he had a huge bed and the chances of anything happening between any of us were as remote as me flying to the moon, we all slept in the same bed together. I have done that several times when single and as a YSA but only in situations where there are no parents (i.e student house or whatever), because I wouldnt want to make them uncomfortable, its their house and all that. Plus It was never a boyfriend, just friends and I know myself. I would never ever dream of asking for me and a boyfriend as i would a)respect my parenst but B) feel like fiannan-you wouldnt be able to relax atall!!!
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Third rule: No one of the opposite sex sleeps over at our house. This has been a challenge when my son has had friends who are traveling with him from college to Southern California and they bring their girlfriends or sisters with them. We make other arrangements for the girls or guys to stay at another house on the trip. We do not host a coed dorm for these trips.
This is my stance on the situation-my husband and I both stayed round each others houses before we were married. So did one of my other boyfriends-My Mum trusted us and obviously we didnt sleep in the same room. If you date someone who lives a fair distance, they have to stay over! That to me is keeping standards, although my Dad was there then, since he's not there anymore the rules and everything go to pot. My Mum doesn't seem to have rules, and she allows my brother and sister to take advantage of her low standards which frustrates me so much. Once, my brother and his fiance wandered in with bottles of something or other and sat there drinking it in the front room in front of us. In my family home, where we've had prayers and family home eveniing in the past. Me and my husband felt so uncomfortable and I told my Mum I didnt think it was fair or appropriate. She does what she always does when I confront her-looks at the floor and says nothing, making me feel like the baddy and she's the naughty child.
I told my Dad what happened and he said he totally disagreed with the way I handled the situation and that I was categorically wrong to do what I did. That surprised me. He said she can do what she wants. Fair enough, but Im sure she only does it half the time to get a reaction. Why does she do that??!
Anyway, thanks for your advice. Thats what I'd do as a parent too, and an adult with divorced parents. I do blame my sister a lot for her selfishness. She has no integrity whatsoever and has no respect. She's unfortunately very shallow and selfish and it would never cross her mind to think of something as uncool as respecting a parent's standards. If My Mum had refused to let them sleep together, she might have had a tantrum, then slagged off the church and her family to her idiot boyfriend because she couldnt get her own way. Or basically her opinion changes to that of whatever idiot she is currently dating. My brother I let off only slightly, because a) My Mum has never ever disciplined him or taught him, just lets him do whatever he wants and even helps him to do things he shouldnt be doing. (like giving him lifts to town so he can buy and sell drugs when she knows exaclty what he's doing) So, he's used to it, but is also B) very dumb. I love my brother and sister but they have faults like anyone else. My sister should know better tho. So should my Mum come to think of it. She's such a soft touch its embarrasing. If my brother went out and murderded some1 in cold blood she'd probably say, oh he didnt mean it hes a good boy really. Head.in.the.sand. Sometimes I feel like shaking some common sense into her.
Ok let me get up on my soapbox. Clears throat.
You ask what we have done as parents. My wife and I have four children. Daughter 29, daughter 27, daughter 25 and son 24.
First rule: You are welcome to have friends over of the opposite sex.
Second rule: You will not have friends of the opposite sex in your bedroom. There is no reason for it.
If they are adults Aphrodite I have no problem telling them these are my rules and if you don't like them then find other arrangements for living. If I am allowing it to happen in my house with my knowledge then I am accepting of the behavior.
Same with drinking, smoking etc.
Personal story. My parents divorced shortly after I married. My father and mother chose to live with significant others before marrying them. I told them both that they were welcome to come and visit but that they should not plan on staying at my house unless they came alone since I would not allow them to sleep in the same room in my house. My house my rules.
When my mom remarried I was not invited by the groom to the wedding because his feeling was that no one had the right to tell him he had to be married. I did not feel bad about it it was his wedding not mine. It was my house earlier not his.
Ben Raines
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Third rule: No one of the opposite sex sleeps over at our house. This has been a challenge when my son has had friends who are traveling with him from college to Southern California and they bring their girlfriends or sisters with them. We make other arrangements for the girls or guys to stay at another house on the trip. We do not host a coed dorm for these trips.
This is my stance on the situation-my husband and I both stayed round each others houses before we were married. So did one of my other boyfriends-My Mum trusted us and obviously we didnt sleep in the same room. If you date someone who lives a fair distance, they have to stay over! That to me is keeping standards, although my Dad was there then, since he's not there anymore the rules and everythinbg go to pot. My Mum doesn't seem to have rules, and she allows my brother and sister to take advantage of her low standards which frustrates me so much. Once, my brother and his fiance wandered inb with bottles of something or other and sat there drinking it in the front room in front of us. In my family home, where we've had prayers and family home eveniing in the past. Me and my husband felt so uncomfortable and I told my Mum I didnt think it was fair or appropriate. She does what she always does when I
Ok let me get up on my soapbox. Clears throat.
You ask what we have done as parents. My wife and I have four children. Daughter 29, daughter 27, daughter 25 and son 24.
First rule: You are welcome to have friends over of the opposite sex.
Second rule: You will not have friends of the opposite sex in your bedroom. There is no reason for it.
If they are adults Aphrodite I have no problem telling them these are my rules and if you don't like them then find other arrangements for living. If I am allowing it to happen in my house with my knowledge then I am accepting of the behavior.
Same with drinking, smoking etc.
Personal story. My parents divorced shortly after I married. My father and mother chose to live with significant others before marrying them. I told them both that they were welcome to come and visit but that they should not plan on staying at my house unless they came alone since I would not allow them to sleep in the same room in my house. My house my rules.
When my mom remarried I was not invited by the groom to the wedding because his feeling was that no one had the right to tell him he had to be married. I did not feel bad about it it was his wedding not mine. It was my house earlier not his.
Ben Raines
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My sister has an unfortunate habit of picking idiots for boyfriends. She is inactive and has just chosen, in my opinion, the bottom of the barrel in the boyfriend stakes. What is even worse is that she has just told us she is moving in with him. That's upsetting enough as obviously you hope she will return to church and this is not a step in that direction. My question is to all you parents with adult or teenage children. My sister was 22 yesterday and has been inactive since she was 16. Her and her boyfriend stayed at my Mum's who is alledgedly an active member although sometimes I wonder, and she let them sleep together in my sisters bedroom. She also lets my brother and his girlfriend sleep together under her roof. My husband and I think this totally wrong, as although they have their agency, she should be setting an example of what she believes in. She lets them drink in the house too although they have to smoke outside, and I think this is only because she has asthma. She wont bless the food in front of them, and basically wont even mention the church for fear of upsetting them. I personally think its pathetic, I know my Dad wouldnt stand for it if it was his home, but he says my Mum is well within her rights to allow this to happen. On the one hand I think if i was my sister, I would probably be annoyed if she refused, and tell her I am an adult and we live together so how can you expect me to live by church rules. But on the other hand I think, it is my Mum's responsibility to maintain her standards as a member of the church. There is a horrible atmosphere round her house now, of swearing, sex, alcohol and disrespect. All because she allows it to happen. What would you parents do, or what have you already done, in this situation?
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Although we have nothing like that over here in the UK, we do have a big business in town owned by members from the other ward. They obviously employ non-members but practically the whole ward are employed there or have been at one time or another. The owners we know personally and would count them as friends. They all own a few houses that they rent out in the town and roundabout. One of them has a house up for rent at the moment and he is trying to persuade Rob and I to move in to it but we wont. It's because we dont trust him! They are all sales people and very dishonest. Rob works for them as their decorator for their houses and we've seen the adverts in the paper as having 'brand new fitted carpets' when Rob was there when a carpet cleaner turned up to try and make them look new-do you see what I mean? I think it would damage our friendship as we would really see those little things and think badly of our friend. Better to keep out of it. We know what they are like but I could just see things turning sour. Likewise, I would imagine if someone had a bad experience with an LDS agent it would be worse as they would be thinking, but they're supposed to be church members!!! Just my opinion.
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I do mark my scriptures and have tried many different ways-the colour coding etc, but it didnt work for me, there were too may topics per scripture and it looked a complete mess-So now, I have a red marker and underline with a ruler key things that stick out to me-and I have a 'scripture journal' or notebook, where i write down things i might have written in the scripture marjins. For example, scripture ref at the top of the page, then room for notes underneath it, with the date if you want. That way, you dont write all over your scriptures, still keep the insight and thoughts, and can start new scripture journals as you grow spritually. You can track your progress in your studies then as you can compare things you wrote from years ago without having to get new scriptures. I do this at church too. I never go to church without a notebook, ever! I like to write things down I feel I want to explore at a later date. I love a fresh clean book-my scriptures arent, but they are the only book I mark-I 'read' novels, therefore need no marking, but I 'study' the scriptures which in my opinion needs markings to help you remember what you learn, and remind you whats important to you.
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yep. been into a couple of different houses of worship.nothing bad to say about any of them. felt closer to God in all of them.
i think what's within counts for a lot more than what's without
Shade, you are so right about whats within. I have been to a Sunday Service at the Vatican in Rome, and I was very surprised to find I felt the spirit. But I suppose we were still worshipping the Lord even though they didn't have the 'fulness' of the gospel. I was concerned at first, I thought, hang on this shouldnt be happening, but then afterwards when I thought about it I realised it was quite normal-I was in tune with the spirit therefore I was able to feel his prescence. However, I have been to church of England services all my life having been to a church of England school (Easter, Christmas, harvest). While I love these churches for their architecture and history (the one in my home town dates back to the 1100s) I feel nothing in their services. I find them, empty, repetitive and without the spirit. The only thing I think when I go there is how grateful I am for the gospel. Its strange, because quite a few times I have realised my own testimony of the church by attending OTHER churches-I realised that something was missing-The spirit, and that has reconfirmed my own testimony of the gospel. I have been to a sikh mosque too. Lovely people, but I didnt feel the spirit!!
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Andrews is brilliant-It was all I lived on when I had a sickness and diahorrea bug over christmas.
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Aphrodite - i like your attitude!!!
Thank You Shade
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It seems to me that if the people who are doubting the book of Mormons authenticity put as much effort into humbly studying its teachings as they are to disproving it they would have a testimony in about 5 minutes flat!
I'm really impressed with all the knowledge of the BoM tho. You have far more than me. Trouble with ppl in the church is they really do think too much! I have read the bom through and I have never ever considered any of these facts, timelines, was this invented then etc. I think ppl are focusing on the wrong thing here, then cross referencing and searching to 'disprove' it. You dont accidentally stumble across the sources that have been posted here, you go out and look for something to back up your claims. If you really wanted a testimony, then you wouldnt do this.
Inactivetx, I just want to say that I know where you are coming from although not with the BoM. I have had doubts about things in similar ways to you. However, I know more than anything else in this world that the BoM is true, and it was written for our day. My advice to you would be to empty your mind of all these questions and 'bumps'. Start afresh. Talk the Lord about it, tell him your concerns. Just read the Book with prayer and a real desire to gain a testimony. I would get into cross referencing and things for now. Just read the book of mormon and ask for a testiomony of it. Once you have established that I think you'll find most of your queries and questions will be answered within your own mind. Try fasting for a testimony of its truth. I find that when Im not doing too well spiritually, I seem to gain more questions and doubts. When I am on top of things, praying regularly etc, I see things more clearly and gain more experiences that strengthen my testimony.
I suppose most of my issues with the church have come from my own arrogance. 'I dont see why this..', or deciding something I dont like to be wrong. Who the heck are we to say? I often think to myself, to try and fully understand the gospel as the Lord knows it is like a 2 year old attempting to undertake a university exam-Its just not going to be succesful so there is no point in trying. I dont mean there is no point in trying to understand the gospel, I mean that we should stick with simplicity. Be humble. Listen to the Lord, and my hardest one of all but by far the most effective (grrr how annoying) is obedience. I'm a strong opinionated woman and I do not like being told what to do. However, doing my own thing only causes problems. Be obedient, do as the Lord says. Serve. Be humble, and read the Book of Mormon with an open, honest heart and much prayer to the Lord about your concerns. That scripture, 'The Lord works in mysterious ways' is something for all to bear in mind. He does things we dont always understand. They are his ways, and rather than disect them with our own pitiful knowledge of life and the eternities, we should just concentrate on living it. That will give you a testiomony. Just my thoughts, but I know that they have worked for me and I know this is what the Lord wants from me
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I've often wondered about this myself as green tea is known to have many health benefits including great anti oxidant properties. Its got me thinking about the word of wisdom, and I have posted a new topic on the subject. I hope it is allowed though as I've drunk it before
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I am an avid reader, probably almost obsessed! Ive already read 7 books this year. I would highly highly recommend 'The tea Rose' by jennifer donnely. It is probably one of the best books I have ever read I didnt want it to end. There is a sequel too called the winter rose which is just as good. Please read them!!! :)
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I dont know if I heard correctly, but I'm sure I heard that there is an LDS candidate for the presidential race? I dont know if he's republican or democrat, but my husband thought he heard it too, on the news last night. Im in England, so I just wondered if anyone could enlighten me?
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That's fair enough Susie, your experience is very different to mine. A survey done in this country showed that a third of all young british muslims AGREED with Al Qaeda attacks. This is a town where you cant display the english flag incase you 'offend' the muslims or other races that happen to live here. They are are allowed to have thier own shops and communities, but if we try and do something similar, we cant in case we 'offend' the precious Muslims, and yes they do complain it's not just local government. My husband has been mugged/attacked several times over the years, ALL by asians, who will be muslims in this town. I have been offered muslim leaflets in town by asian men and when Ive said no thank you, Ive been called a racist b****h. I find them generally rude and arrogant being bumped and knocked in town maybe by accident maybe on purpose, but with no apologies either way. Ive been told that older muslim women do not need to say please or thank you to their younger counterparts, which is absolutely true. If I am served by an asian muslim woman in the supermarket, the ENTIRE transction will take place with her sighing and not making eye contact before just sitting there waiting for the money, without a SINGLE word being spoken. And if they are patients at the hospital and I give them something or whatever, they will take it and not utter a word of thanks. The families come up to the hospital en masse, and Im talking 10-12 people at a time, when you are only supposed to have 2-3 per bed. If you ask them to leave they complain saying you are, you guessed it, 'discriminating' against them and then they go on to complain about poor treatment etc etc.
Now, I am not a racist person, but can you see why I would dislike the muslim religion if this is what it teaches? No respect to people younger than you, playing the racism card at every possible oppurtunity? I also find them very hypocritical with their appalling treatment of women, and also they smoke, take drugs, use prostitutes etc, when they are clearly not supposed to do these things. I have actually witnessed muslims coming out of their mosque, light up a fag and troop over to the red light district which is coincidentally, right outside the mosque. But yet they will still try to use thier religion as some kind of trump card. I obviously have met some lovely muslims and do have a couple of muslim acquaintances. But overall, what the religion teaches is so so wrong and I genuinely think it is an evil religion. I would say 80% of muslims follow the religion as it teaches, and 20% dont, and they are the nice people. How can a religion that teaches you to discriminate against jews and christians, be good???? Oh and by the way, all the attempted attacks and successful attacks on this country by muslims have had muslims that live in Luton (my town). They are told to wage holy war for their cause for goodness sake!!
These are just my thoughts. If you lived here you would see what I mean!!!
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i have had a bit of exposure to the Islamic faith and beliefs at work and in the world and, while different in some ways to what i believe, everything i have encountered could be called "virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy".
I live in a town where 30% of the population is Muslim, and let me tell you there is nothing 'lovely' or 'good' about this religion. Can I remind everyone about the attacks on the world trade centre? Or more recently the horrific London bombings? These were done by muslims! They hate us as a western society!I have also looked through the Koran and it actually says 'do not befried the christian or the jew' and then goes on to say something like we will all burn in hell for believeing what we do. I have encountered racism on myself-Ive walked past asians in the street who look at you with such hatred in their eyes because you are a white western woman. This is an evil religion!!!!
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My stake president told my husband and I before we got married it was between us and then Lord when and how many kids we woud have. That quote from 1969 I just so totally disagree with. It makes it sound that all women are here to do is be baby making machines. What about practical things like finances, etc? I actually think its a little irresponsible to just pop kids out of you do not have the financial means to support them. If you have them while you are university you are creating more work and pressure for yourself. Why? What difference does it actually make if you wait a couple of years? In the scheme of eternity thats probably like a second.
What about the woman? What if she's scared or not ready or the prospect of actually being pregnant is frightening (like me!) We have been married for 18 months and have no plans for kids until I have completed university in 3 years. I dont think it would be right or responsible of me to not give myself a career as a back up. Like, what if my husband died and I had to support a family? Or he had an accident and couldnt work anymore? You have to think of things like that. And I know you can rely on the Lord, but why make it more difficult fir yourself? I believe in doing all you can and then asking the Lord to fill in the rest. Plus, I know its not fashionable to say this in the church but I love my job and career, and I wouldn't want to give it up. Firstly, we could not afford to and secondly I wouldnt want to. It stimulates me and gives me so much satisfaction and happiness. The church always teaches us is we need to BALANCE our lives.. I would say having a maneagable family (which is of course different for everyone), a career you enjoy and a happy home life is much more beneficial than just popping out one kid after another. One thing I would say to Nate-if you dont want more kids or want to space them out, why dont you use birth control? I dont believe it is wrong I think it is a responsible and sensible approach to aid in your wifes health and both of your sanity!!!!! -
i really feel for you. Having watched my own parents divorce at the time I was getting married myself, I know of the complications and difficulties that can arise. It doesnt make u a bad person, marriages dont always work. However, you havent been married long and theres time to sort it out. I assume u dont have kids yet. Whatever you do, make a decision one way or the other before you have children. People do get over divorce, but Im not sure if children ever do.
Birth Control
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Yes! Although I wont be well into my 30s Ill be 27. My husband has had his career sorted and settled for years and I get paid to train so we wont have debt to pay from that its from other areas. Its not just about money, Jason. Plus, I think if you are older when you have kids, and will be doing things in my 50s or whatever, that will keep you young lol. You can all your fun, planning and looking forward to kids when you are young then still be raising a family when ur older where everyone else will be grandparents at 35. i think thats great.
Uh, No I cant actually. My degree involves 50% practice and I would have to take time out to have a child which would mean I would fail the course. So no I couldnt do both.